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Thread: The relative value of a CB

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNY WERBLIN View Post
    It's not a question of how good Revis is. It's how much does he improve the Jets. How many of these guys would make our D better if they were on the team rather than Revis?

    DeMarcus Ware
    Haloti Ngata
    Terrell Suggs
    Jared Allen
    Von Miller
    Lamar Woodley
    JPP
    Clay Matthews
    James Harrison
    Tamba Hali
    Ndomakong Suh
    For the Jets, just Ware. Maybe Von Miller and Clay Matthews, the rest no, IMO

  2. #42
    This kind of discussion simply does not apply to this situation in my opinion. Revis is on a whole other level of performance than a CB or a good CB. the league is more pass happy than ever and though you want to be doing the damage the teams that can defend the pass are going to prosper as well if their offense has a pulse.

    You need to go like this. QB, LT, pass rusher, Revis, CB and then order them.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesR View Post
    I was just thinking the same thing earlier ... sure, we got a great player in that trade in Mangold, but a great Center vs. a great Pass Rusher?

    So if we trade Revis and draft a great guard or right tackle to try to fix the O, excuse me if I don't do cartwheels.
    How about if ya also include the players now allowed to be signed with the $8-10 million more available in cap room in 2014 in addition to the great RT or G?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81 View Post
    How about if ya also include the players now allowed to be signed with the $8-10 million more available in cap room in 2014 in addition to the great RT or G?
    People don't seem to understand the overall impact of trading Revis and NOT re-signing him to a mega deal. It nets the Jets picks/players to solve positions of need AND cap space.

  5. #45
    This is my philosophy in playing defense in this pass happy league. Excerpts from the Paradis thread...

    http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/sh...=253590&page=8

    For me...the front 7 of a defense is more important then the secondary. Putting pressure on an elite QB...IMO...is the best way to defend against them. Even though the Jets secondary was 2nd in the league. They were only 23rd in the league with just 11 INTs. It had a great deal to do with the Jets having a mediocre pass rush. Jets were 25th in sacks(30)...therefore = 23rd in INTs.

    In 2011 Jets were 17th in sacks(35) and therefore 10th in INTS(19.)

    So the Jets on just a 5 sack differential, from 2011 to 2012, drops the Jets from 17th to 25th in sacks...and from 10th to 23rd in INTs. Even if I added 3 INTs to equal Darelle's 2011 total of 4...that puts Jets INT ranking at 16th. Sacks...and the pressures that go with it...is a magnifier...it is a huge difference maker...in stopping offensive drives.

    My contention is...if the Jets had an elite pass rush that produced 44-47 sacks, the Jets would have caused way more TOs via INTs and FFs. Which helps tremendously the +/- TO ratio. This is especially so if you have someone playing QB, that's just in the middle of the pack with TOs...rather then the Sanchez TO machine.

    And this simple little fact often escapes us all...TOs is a big determinator as to who wins and who loses a football game. And sacks-pressures, is the most important single weapen on defense...that causes them. Sacks-pressures kill drives and cause TOs.

    My philosophy is the Giants philosophy...of having a defensive front 7 D, that can dominate the game. Sack the Brady's 3-5 times. Knock them down and hit them frequently enough...and they will start to hurry their passes. Mess up their footwork and accuracy. The more you can do this with a 3-4 man rush, and just an occasional 5th man blitzing...the better chance you have in forcing incompletions, or making a pick with 7-8 dropped in coverage. This is still the best way of defeating an elite QB. And of course we know...the Giants had a mediocre to average secondary in both those two Super Bowl runs.

    I would not pay Revis...as if he was a monster dominator within that front 7. Like someone that can frequently penetrate into the backfield, and effect plays...and blow up a whole offense by himself.


    I like Revis...but not at $100 mil for 6 years as reported by Cannizzaro...

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/...owI7BwNng58MAP
    Last edited by GreenReaper; 01-26-2013 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #46
    CB takes away ONE man from the opposing team. He is basically worthless when you have ZERO pass rush. A decent pass rusher takes away TWO O-Linemen most of the time.

  7. #47
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    I used to look forward to King's columns until his love affair with the Patriots got worse than Chris Matthew's with Obama.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    This kind of discussion simply does not apply to this situation in my opinion. Revis is on a whole other level of performance than a CB or a good CB. the league is more pass happy than ever and though you want to be doing the damage the teams that can defend the pass are going to prosper as well if their offense has a pulse.

    You need to go like this. QB, LT, pass rusher, Revis, CB and then order them.
    Even in that hierarchy he is not worth $15M per. Just not. He is a great player, just not worth that much money on any level.

  9. #49
    Revis is worth a lot to the Jets, because the Jets haven`t had a pass rush since the Sack Exchange days. You get a pass rush together, you don`t even need CB`s. Trade Revis asap and get whatever it is you can for him. I`m surprised there are teams lining up to sign a greedy holdout who thinks he`s the best player ever. LOL He`s good, but with a pass rush, he`s just another CB. We`ve seen just how many SB`s the Jets have won when Revis was healthy and playing. The same amount as when he wasn`t playing.

  10. #50
    I don't know if I agree, but my old man says Mark Schlereth said the same thing about those same four positions.

    I would like for Revis to stay.

    I would like for the Jets not to tie up too much money, and, if he does leave, for them to get as much for him as they possibly can even more than I want him to stay.

    I think we all keep getting a little side tracked and forgetting an important possibility. He comes back, plays well, and the team refuses to pay him what the other teams are likely already offering him (you people dont believe no one has spoken to Revis! Do you?) assuming he is healthy w the knee.

    Know what happens then? We get dick.

    I will be one bent fan if NOTHING gets done and he skates after next season and this is a very real possibility. The knee will be great cause he has had an entire season off in addition to this off season. If we get goose egg for him, I will be sick.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenReaper View Post
    This is my philosophy in playing defense in this pass happy league. Excerpts from the Paradis thread...

    http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/sh...=253590&page=8

    For me...the front 7 of a defense is more important then the secondary. Putting pressure on an elite QB...IMO...is the best way to defend against them. Even though the Jets secondary was 2nd in the league. They were only 23rd in the league with just 11 INTs. It had a great deal to do with the Jets having a mediocre pass rush. Jets were 25th in sacks(30)...therefore = 23rd in INTs.

    In 2011 Jets were 17th in sacks(35) and therefore 10th in INTS(19.)

    So the Jets on just a 5 sack differential, from 2011 to 2012, drops the Jets from 17th to 25th in sacks...and from 10th to 23rd in INTs. Even if I added 3 INTs to equal Darelle's 2011 total of 4...that puts Jets INT ranking at 16th. Sacks...and the pressures that go with it...is a magnifier...it is a huge difference maker...in stopping offensive drives.

    My contention is...if the Jets had an elite pass rush that produced 44-47 sacks, the Jets would have caused way more TOs via INTs and FFs. Which helps tremendously the +/- TO ratio. This is especially so if you have someone playing QB, that's just in the middle of the pack with TOs...rather then the Sanchez TO machine.

    And this simple little fact often escapes us all...TOs is a big determinator as to who wins and who loses a football game. And sacks-pressures, is the most important single weapen on defense...that causes them. Sacks-pressures kill drives and cause TOs.

    My philosophy is the Giants philosophy...of having a defensive front 7 D, that can dominate the game. Sack the Brady's 3-5 times. Knock them down and hit them frequently enough...and they will start to hurry their passes. Mess up their footwork and accuracy. The more you can do this with a 3-4 man rush, and just an occasional 5th man blitzing...the better chance you have in forcing incompletions, or making a pick with 7-8 dropped in coverage. This is still the best way of defeating an elite QB. And of course we know...the Giants had a mediocre to average secondary in both those two Super Bowl runs.

    I would not pay Revis...as if he was a monster dominator within that front 7. Like someone that can frequently penetrate into the backfield, and effect plays...and blow up a whole offense by himself.


    I like Revis...but not at $100 mil for 6 years as reported by Cannizzaro...

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/...owI7BwNng58MAP




    Agreed... Pressure the qb and average corners look like stars. Even if the qb burns you for one early, getting hit and knocked around will have him nervous by the third quarter

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Not only that but we're probably stuck with Yeremiah Bell and some JAG replacing Landry b/c with our cap situation he's probably gone too. Bottom 5 secondary.


    Having Landry instead of a scrub like Jim Leonhard mitigated the Revis injury last season.
    That Douchebag Belichick will go all out to sign Landry, he will not be back

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81 View Post
    How about if ya also include the players now allowed to be signed with the $8-10 million more available in cap room in 2014 in addition to the great RT or G?
    By 2014 we will have a ton of extra cap room ... Sanchez, Holmes and Harris can all come off the books / be resigned for a lot less.

    So by that time we can have a ton of cap room, without trading Revis. Cap room is only useful if you have talented guys to sign, or want to go on a FA spending spree. I'd rather get away from the high-priced FA market and develop the team through the draft.

    The view that the Jets are in cap hell is a short term, not a long term, issue.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesR View Post
    By 2014 we will have a ton of extra cap room ... Sanchez, Holmes and Harris can all come off the books / be resigned for a lot less.

    So by that time we can have a ton of cap room, without trading Revis. Cap room is only useful if you have talented guys to sign, or want to go on a FA spending spree. I'd rather get away from the high-priced FA market and develop the team through the draft.

    The view that the Jets are in cap hell is a short term, not a long term, issue.
    and the Jets ways of winning Championships is a VERY long term issue. Possibly a forever issue. LOL

    The cap is a short term issue. Revis` career is also a short term issue. Trade him now while he`s still worth something. I said he should have been traded last year. His injury wouldn`t have been an issue to the Jets at all. They would have also gotten top dollar for him. His value has declined but yet there seems to be a big interest for him on the rumor mill. Trade away I say.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Pretty sure that more CB's get drafted in the first two rounds than NT, RB, MLB, and C, and probably WR as well. Actual NFL teams don't seem to agree with what you posted, just sayin'
    I'm pretty sure most teams are wrong. How many teams have won the SB over the past 20 years? Now go back and find out how many SB winning teams had pro bowl CBs. How many had pro bowl QBs, and pass rushers? Now you may gracefully concede.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohegangreen View Post
    That Douchebag Belichick will go all out to sign Landry, he will not be back
    Yeah Bellicheck is all about the high priced free agents. He stocks up on nothing but top flight DBs. That must be the formula for success

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Yeah Bellicheck is all about the high priced free agents. He stocks up on nothing but top flight DBs. That must be the formula for success
    You ever hear of Rodney Harrison? He is willing to over pay for a great safety, obviously...btw lose the attitude, dude

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    I'm pretty sure most teams are wrong. How many teams have won the SB over the past 20 years? Now go back and find out how many SB winning teams had pro bowl CBs. How many had pro bowl QBs, and pass rushers? Now you may gracefully concede.
    I will do D line and DB's in last years 1st and 2nd rds..2012 D-Line 14, DB's 7..

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    Even in that hierarchy he is not worth $15M per. Just not. He is a great player, just not worth that much money on any level.
    That's fine and good I have no problem with people having that opinion but the bent of this thread was value of a CB and Revis is out of the realm of 'a cb'

    The galling thing is that the Jets are paying a horrendous QB massive money and massively over paying a #2 malcontent WR.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    That's fine and good I have no problem with people having that opinion but the bent of this thread was value of a CB and Revis is out of the realm of 'a cb'

    The galling thing is that the Jets are paying a horrendous QB massive money and massively over paying a #2 malcontent WR.
    The Sanchez extension was one of the worst contract decisions the Jets have done recently, especially since it saved the Jets so little money, and the Jets severely overpaid Holmes and Harris, especially since if they had let the market develop they could have brought Edwards back for a fraction of the cost of Holmes

    I agree that Revis is at the very extreme edge of CB but unfortunately it is still at a position that has a dramatically smaller effect on an NFL game than other positions. I could argue that DT WR and maybe even safety have a bigger impact than any CB even Revis.

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