Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 59

Thread: Believe it or not: PFF has us as #3 OL in 2012

  1. #21
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    and he still never completed 60 per cent of his passes. He never was a dominant QB even with Faneca and Woody. If you want to win a SB, a great to elite QB is a must these days. Suckchez is none of the above.

    The fact that the OL is now rated 3rd best in the NFL takes another excuse away from the Sanchez fans. They just refuse to believe that their hero sucks! I think the LT allowed way too many pressures this year. Yet the focus is on Slauson and Howard.
    Who are these Sanchez fans? Don't think he has many left.

  2. #22
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida, United States
    Posts
    12,798
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    Who are these Sanchez fans? Don't think he has many left.
    I read many excuse making posts on this board daily. They are all making excuses for Sauckchez. Granted they are dwindling but they are still here.

  3. #23
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    brooklyn,NY
    Posts
    6,114
    There are few nfl teams that use PFF.. Anybody trying to discredit them doesn't have a clue.

  4. #24
    Jets Insider VIP
    Board Moderator

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    27,414
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    and he still never completed 60 per cent of his passes. He never was a dominant QB even with Faneca and Woody. If you want to win a SB, a great to elite QB is a must these days. Suckchez is none of the above.

    The fact that the OL is now rated 3rd best in the NFL takes another excuse away from the Sanchez fans. They just refuse to believe that their hero sucks! I think the LT allowed way too many pressures this year. Yet the focus is on Slauson and Howard.
    Forget about pass protection for a second. If you were to assign a letter grade to the Jets run blocking, what would it be? I'll go first: D

    We need to upgrade the line

  5. #25
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Super Insider Triple VIP Island
    Posts
    8,585
    You're right, I don't believe it, I believe my eyes. And let's not forget last year's time with Wayne Hunter and the first few games with him - the damage was done, you don't just bounce back from that.

  6. #26
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    There are few nfl teams that use PFF.. Anybody trying to discredit them doesn't have a clue.
    I don't know what this means. Are you suggesting that there are several teams who use PFF and their stats? Or are you saying that there are few (as in few, if any) teams that use PFF?

    I guess I'm one of those that don't have a clue but its more about your point.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I'm not going to as far as patman, but I mostly agree. There is simply no way the Jets were the 3rd best Oline. And I put a lot of blame on Sanchez, but there were times where he had no chance at all.
    Jets were definitely around top 10...

    And the bottom line is that PFF is grading every snap of every game for ever team. They could care less about playing favorites...

    Just because their analysis disagrees with the common Jets fan who still blames the OL for last year's lack of success on the offense.


    And it makes no sense to take offensive line with the first pick outside of several other positions being gone.

    I like Fisher more than anyone, but he's absolutely useless on our team. Brick is as good as it gets at LT, and Fisher's value is at that position. Warmack is good, but there's no point. In a salary cap world, there are only a few positions you can pay top money to and we already waste one of those positions at Center with Mangold. You have to save the big bucks for the most important positions.

  8. #28
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Forget about pass protection for a second. If you were to assign a letter grade to the Jets run blocking, what would it be? I'll go first: D

    We need to upgrade the line
    I was going to go with C on account of the improvement that I did legitimately see towards the end of the season. And, when you think about it, C is one of the first 3 letters, so I guess they are in fact in the top 3.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Forget about pass protection for a second. If you were to assign a letter grade to the Jets run blocking, what would it be? I'll go first: D

    We need to upgrade the line
    First half of year, C-

    Second half, B+

    Problem isn't the line. Problem is the people playing behind it, specificly Sanchez and Greene.

    With that said, I'm a "Winning Begins and Ends in the Trenches" fan, so I'm all for adding talent to the line.

    But you can add all the talent int he world, Sanchez will still miss or not see open guys, and Greene will still run slowly into the backs of his O-linemen, missing holes, and going down on the first hit.

  10. #30
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida, United States
    Posts
    12,798
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Forget about pass protection for a second. If you were to assign a letter grade to the Jets run blocking, what would it be? I'll go first: D

    We need to upgrade the line
    I think that the LT needs to be better in run blocking! I think that the RT has improved until he was graded pretty well in the run game. I do not believe that Mangold had the best year blocking for the run. I thought Moore was slipping but the article disagrees with me.

    Yes we need to upgrade the OL at BOTh OG positions but a better QB would help the team immensely! I also think that if mcKnight does not step up this year, he should be gone. I have read a lot about Powell and I like his style of play. IMO the run blocking of the Ol also needs a real TE to assist with run blocking. Keller sucks and Cumberland is merely average.

    Put a real QB with accuracy on the Jets and the safety can not play near the LOS. The run game would improve immediately even with the same OL.

    With a real QB- B+ / with Suckchez- C
    Last edited by Kentucky Jet; 01-28-2013 at 03:26 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    First half of year, C-

    Second half, B+

    Problem isn't the line. Problem is the people playing behind it, specificly Sanchez and Greene.

    With that said, I'm a "Winning Begins and Ends in the Trenches" fan, so I'm all for adding talent to the line.

    But you can add all the talent int he world, Sanchez will still miss or not see open guys, and Greene will still run slowly into the backs of his O-linemen, missing holes, and going down on the first hit.
    Agree with this. I think the o-line was fine, but could and should be upgraded. You can't have enough talent on the o-line. If we went T, G with our first and second this year you wouldn't hear me complaining.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Forget about pass protection for a second. If you were to assign a letter grade to the Jets run blocking, what would it be? I'll go first: D

    We need to upgrade the line
    I think you are MASSIVELY overrating the quality of our starting RB. The number of times I watched other backs on other teams, cut back or jump into a hole for a nice gain was staggering. The number of times there was a nice hole a step to the right or left and Greene ran smack dab into one of our lineman or a defender was staggering.

    Not often do you see massive holes being made for backs. More often than not it is a half block and a seem that a back is expected to find and get through. We not have run blocked brilliantly but the backs left a lot of yards on the table last year.

    Also when teams know you are a running team and that your Qb is sheer and utter garbage it's a lot easier to play run. We also have almost no passing game to RB's.

  13. #33
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,354
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    Jets were definitely around top 10...

    And the bottom line is that PFF is grading every snap of every game for ever team. They could care less about playing favorites...

    Just because their analysis disagrees with the common Jets fan who still blames the OL for last year's lack of success on the offense.


    And it makes no sense to take offensive line with the first pick outside of several other positions being gone.

    I like Fisher more than anyone, but he's absolutely useless on our team. Brick is as good as it gets at LT, and Fisher's value is at that position. Warmack is good, but there's no point. In a salary cap world, there are only a few positions you can pay top money to and we already waste one of those positions at Center with Mangold. You have to save the big bucks for the most important positions.
    I don't read every PFF but I'm curious how they go about grading the Oline. Do they grade each individual individually on each play? The defense runs a stunt, LB comes in untouched.....who gets the fault? Likewise, a LT downblocks, RB goes out in a pattern and the safety comes in and creams the QB. According to PFF, who's at fault?

    I've seen people on here suggest that Sanchez sucks at calling protection schemes and that a lot of the hits he's taken is on account of that. I think that's probably true. But how would the good folk at PFF filter out those situations?

    Some of the stats I've seen from there have more value. But applying whatever criteria they use to each individual player, adding them up to create the value of an entire Offensive Line simply doesn't make sense. This ranking is direct proof of that.

    If you want to say the Jets were playing like a 10th ranked line when they peaked towards the end of the season, I might concede that. #3 as an overall proposition is laughable.

    And we aren't talking about Eric Fisher - whether he fits the Jets Oline is irrelevant to how they performed this past year.

  14. #34
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Westchester
    Posts
    1,678
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Its not a surprise to anyone who actually attributes and offenses success to the QB play.

    Sanchez cannot recognize fronts or blitzes and NEVER moves guys around to pick up free runners. He holds the ball too long and has zero pocket presence...it wasnt the line.

    Plus 2 other factors:

    Our OC was clueless....SD blitzed mcelroy on every play, yet we ran 1 screen and 1 misdrection pass (both of which were 20 yard gains) to combat that.

    Our stating RB was arguably the slowest in the league and cant catch, meaning he could be covered by an ILB which allows OLBS/safeties to help in other areas.

    It wasnt the Olines fault.



    I think I shed a little tear . . .

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I'm the first guy to agree with that. JMO, but the Jets could use an upgrade at Oline. But, the Jets NEED an upgrade to the production they got at QB (whether its a magical resurrection from Sanchez or someone new).

    But putting them in the top 3 is just silly. I dont know what their criteria is or who is charting their plays, but it doesn't past the smell test.

    If you want to bring in a drafted QB prospect...and play him...you can expect the defenses to give him the McElroy blitz orgy treatment. It makes sense to draft a stud OL in 1st or 2nd round.


    As Idzik himself said...he wanted competition and depth at every position as a goal striving forward. Start with OL and offense in general. JMO.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    When we had Faneca and Damien Woody the line was opening massive holes for the backs and Sanchez had more time to go through his progressions. The current line is average at best, we need a new RT and LG. Not buying their analysis.
    Faneca couldn't pass block for sh!t...easily one of the most overrated players ever.Woody though is only truly being appreciated now

  17. #37
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    19,354
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenReaper View Post
    If you want to bring in a drafted QB prospect...and play him...you can expect the defenses to give him the McElroy blitz orgy treatment. It makes sense to draft a stud OL in 1st or 2nd round.


    As Idzik himself said...he wanted competition and depth at every position as a goal striving forward. Start with OL and offense in general. JMO.
    I'm in favor of upgrading the Oline. I'm not sure if I want to spend a top 10 pick on one as we are set at LT, but if that's truly the best value, I guess I'm OK with it.

    I call bull**** on the Jets being the #3 Oline in the league. I just don't buy it. That being said, if I could have improvement in ome pf our Oline/QB play/Pass Rush, I'd probably put Oline 3rd. But, its also probably easiest to improve our Oline. Taking a second round pass rusher is no guarantee of any improvement in the near term. Taking a 2nd round OG (or RT for that matter), while no guarantee, will likely yield a day 1 starter.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I think you are MASSIVELY overrating the quality of our starting RB. The number of times I watched other backs on other teams, cut back or jump into a hole for a nice gain was staggering. The number of times there was a nice hole a step to the right or left and Greene ran smack dab into one of our lineman or a defender was staggering.

    Not often do you see massive holes being made for backs. More often than not it is a half block and a seem that a back is expected to find and get through. We not have run blocked brilliantly but the backs left a lot of yards on the table last year.

    Also when teams know you are a running team and that your Qb is sheer and utter garbage it's a lot easier to play run. We also have almost no passing game to RB's.
    just watching how much better powell was than greene made me realize that it's tough to really evaluate the run blocking with greene as the running back. he was so slow, and couldn't get thru the holes quick enough, that going to powell was like watching leon washington by comparison. and if they had a better, more decisive qb maybe the pass protection would look better too. all goes back to terrible offensive skill positions.

  19. #39
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,719
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    I think you are MASSIVELY overrating the quality of our starting RB. The number of times I watched other backs on other teams, cut back or jump into a hole for a nice gain was staggering. The number of times there was a nice hole a step to the right or left and Greene ran smack dab into one of our lineman or a defender was staggering.

    Not often do you see massive holes being made for backs. More often than not it is a half block and a seem that a back is expected to find and get through. We not have run blocked brilliantly but the backs left a lot of yards on the table last year.

    Also when teams know you are a running team and that your Qb is sheer and utter garbage it's a lot easier to play run. We also have almost no passing game to RB's.
    +1

    I can't tell you how many times I saw gaping running lanes last year only for Greene's slow ass to pick up 8-10 yards at best when a back with just average speed and vision would've gotten at least 20-25.

    And like you said, the number of times he ran straight into the back of one of our OL was staggering.

    What are the positives with Shonn Greene? He's a decent inside runner, but that's it.

    - No explosion
    - No vision
    - Can't catch
    - Can't pass block

    Good riddance

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Salz View Post
    Don't rip on something because you don't understand it. You sound like the guys who rip on sabermetric stats in baseball and suck off awful stats like RBI. Go do a little learning.

    By the way, Pats had the #2 OL with their stats.

    "Oh, really? PFF rules!"
    No they suck. Football is not baseball. you can't apply the same rules when a group of players have to act in concert, and the stratergy changes every play.
    teamwork in baseball is the right side of the infield shifting over 45 feet to defend Ortiz. A guard pulls and fires out using great technique, however the dline stunts a run blitz how do you grade that? The DE does an inside move the full back releases early and does not pick him up, How do they know the full back had that read? Every team has different line calls and protections.

    And the Pats do have a very good Oline, but not because they graded high, but because when they run blocked often there were holes, and when they pass blocked Brady had time.

    I did not see either on a consistent basis from the jets this past season, as a matter of fact is seen more of the opposite. RBs not having holes and Sanchez having guys at his feet or in his face.

    And as i mentioned previously one year they did not have either manning or Brady in the top 12 qb in the league, when they both threw for 4000 yds and had better than 2:1 td to int.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us