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Thread: Believe it or not: PFF has us as #3 OL in 2012

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post

    And the Pats do have a very good Oline, but not because they graded high, but because when they run blocked often there were holes, and when they pass blocked Brady had time.
    I am total agreement with you here....but, you can't leave out having Tom Brady as your QB as a reason the Pats Oline is so good. Having a QB with his quick release makes an Oline's job 10x easier than having a slug like Sanchez under Center. Again, not the only reason, but it certainly helps.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece View Post
    You're right, I don't believe it, I believe my eyes. And let's not forget last year's time with Wayne Hunter and the first few games with him - the damage was done, you don't just bounce back from that.
    One problem Wayne Hunter was traded before the first game of the season. Still whatever reason the line didn't play up to par early in the season you can't make believe it didn't happen.( what are you taken a mulligan) 47 sacks no matter who you try to point the finger at says it not a top three oline. You have the 27th ranked offense and your oline top three?
    Last edited by Raider9175; 01-28-2013 at 05:23 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    One problem Wayne Hunter was traded before the first game of the season. Still whatever reason the line didn't play up to par early in the season you can't make believe it didn't happen.( what are you taken a mulligan) 47 sacks no matter who you try to point the finger at says it not a top three oline. You have the 27th ranked offense and your oline top three?
    It's not impossible if you have an atrocious QB. Look at Rivers, his O line is far worse than the Jets. With that said, although he has had a bad stretch his bad stretch has still been better than Sanchez's best season. This is also a guy who also had to deal with multiple injuries on offenses. If Sanchez put up the numbers that Rivers did this year, many of you would have had him as a shoe in for the hall of fame.
    Last edited by Tonetime86; 01-28-2013 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I'm in favor of upgrading the Oline. I'm not sure if I want to spend a top 10 pick on one as we are set at LT, but if that's truly the best value, I guess I'm OK with it.

    I call bull**** on the Jets being the #3 Oline in the league. I just don't buy it. That being said, if I could have improvement in ome pf our Oline/QB play/Pass Rush, I'd probably put Oline 3rd. But, its also probably easiest to improve our Oline. Taking a second round pass rusher is no guarantee of any improvement in the near term. Taking a 2nd round OG (or RT for that matter), while no guarantee, will likely yield a day 1 starter.
    Our OL is not 3rd. They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Well...I'll never ask PFF to set me up with a blind date...for sure. They need to be doing some serious tweaking of their formula.

    Now I wonder where Football Outsiders ranks the Jets 2013 OL performance? I no longer buy their premium stats. Maybe someone hear at JI does though.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I am total agreement with you here....but, you can't leave out having Tom Brady as your QB as a reason the Pats Oline is so good. Having a QB with his quick release makes an Oline's job 10x easier than having a slug like Sanchez under Center. Again, not the only reason, but it certainly helps.
    For sure it helps, that and the pats have a quick short pass game that has the def thinking short area coverage before a blitz release.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    +1

    I can't tell you how many times I saw gaping running lanes last year only for Greene's slow ass to pick up 8-10 yards at best when a back with just average speed and vision would've gotten at least 20-25.

    And like you said, the number of times he ran straight into the back of one of our OL was staggering.

    What are the positives with Shonn Greene? He's a decent inside runner, but that's it.

    - No explosion
    - No vision
    - Can't catch
    - Can't pass block

    Good riddance
    Right.

    So why is it necessary to draft a OG in the top 10?

    How much better is this team with Warmack, even if he's the stud many think he will be?

    There is not a ton of value in taking a guard in the first round, let alone the top 10.

    I think it would be a mistake.

  7. #47
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    I think we need to draft a guard early, a first-round tackle can wait a year or two.

    I like Barrett Jones in the 2nd. Walter has him going #36, but could see him being there at #39. Versatile guy, too. Height and athleticism to play tackle, size to play guard, especially in a zone-block WCO like the Jets are adopting.

    http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2013_2.php

    Barrett Jones, 6-5/311

    Offensive Lineman

    Alabama

    Skill-Set Summary: It is clear that Jones is a versatile athlete. He is an excellent technician. His hand placement and knee bend are picture perfect. There is no doubt that Jones has done a superb job of developing his technique. He has honed it in practice while going up against many future NFL linemen like Courtney Upshaw, Josh Chapman, Jesse Williams and Marcell Dareus.

    As a run blocker, Jones has the strength to push defensive linemen around at the point of attack. He is a good drive blocker to be a power-man blocker with the mobility to hit blocks on the second level. Jones could fit as a zone blocker or in a power-man blocking scheme as a pro.

    Jones is rock steady in pass protection. He is quick and shuffles his feet with speed rushers while having the powerful base to stand up bull rushers. Jones really did well at left tackle in 2011, and considering the need for the position in the NFL, some teams could consider him to be their blind-side protector.

    With Jones' versatility, it isn't unreasonable to think that he could start at any of the five positions on the offensive line in the NFL, although it is hard to say what his best position would be right now.

    Jones is a hard-working, team-first guy. Not only can his intelligence be seen in learning multiple positions, but he graduated with his degree in accounting in three years with a 4.0 grade-point average. Jones was getting his master's degree during his "junior" season of college football. Off the field, Jones also works with a charity that has prompted him to make multiple trips to Haiti to work with an orphanage.

    Last edited by Tackleem; 01-29-2013 at 12:35 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salz View Post
    Throw away another stupid excuse for the Sanchez apologists out there

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...nsive-lines/4/

    3. New York Jets (12)

    PB – 7th, RB – 3rd, PEN – 3rd

    Stud: There were plenty of contenders here, but given some of the guys he kept in check, credit to D’Brickashaw Ferguson (+23.5) for a fine year.

    Dud: The run blocking of Matt Slauson (+2.5) left a lot to be desired.

    Summary: Everybody wants to poke fun at the Jets, and for some reason the offensive line got caught in the crossfire. It wasn’t quite its dominant self in the early weeks of the season, but they finishing playing as well as any team. Nick Mangold and Brandon Moore played angry, while Austin Howard found his feet as an NFL tackle. Still, a line can only do so much to put skill players in position to do good things, and in that regard the Jets are sorely lacking.
    Not shocking at all. The Jets line was not the problem. The holes were there for Shonn Greene and Bilal Powell. Neither back could break long rains.

    Mark Sanchez did a horrendous job of reading defenses at the line pre-snap and post snap. WR's not getting open also played a part in things. The McElroy game was a clear testament to a line doing a good job and yet getting credited with a poor performance because of the stat sheet.

  9. #49
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    This is the same line that let up eleven sacks in one game right? The most in a single game for the Jets in 25 years? I guess McElroy didn't know the offense or it was his first start or it was the end of the year and the team quit already.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green&White51 View Post
    This is the same line that let up eleven sacks in one game right? The most in a single game for the Jets in 25 years? I guess McElroy didn't know the offense or it was his first start or it was the end of the year and the team quit already.
    One problem Wayne Hunter was traded before the first game of the season. Still whatever reason the line didn't play up to par early in the season you can't make believe it didn't happen.( what are you taken a mulligan) 47 sacks no matter who you try to point the finger at says it not a top three oline. You have the 27th ranked offense and your oline top three?
    You can separate OL Sacks from QB Sacks and even WR sacks, you know.

    If the O-Line gives the QB 4-5 seconds and he's indecisive and just can't find the open receiver, well, that's just on the Quarterback. The O-Line did their job on that given play. Likewise if the line gives the QB 4-5 seconds, but none of the receivers gains any separation, well then that sack is really on the receivers for not giving the QB anywhere to go with the football, and maybe a little bit on the QB for not getting outside the pocket and throwing the ball away. Nevermind, what about sacks that occurred because the TE or the RB failed to pick up their blocker? Is that on the O-Line?

    That's not to say that's the case for all of those sacks, but there were certainly plenty of cases last year where the QB got sacked and there were other factors to blame then the Offensive Line.

    What PFF attempts to do is watch every single play on film, and assign grades based on what they see. I do think there are some faults with the system where they are inherently only working on a partial set of information (not knowing the specifics of the plays called) and you have to wonder about the qualifications of these people to do what it is that they do. But I do admire the amount of legwork they do and think it has some value as a measure, even if imperfect.

  11. #51
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    I hearing alot of the things this year that I heard about Decastro last year on this board.. The sure fire can't miss pick who played a whooping 0 games last season and struggled all through preseason prior to the injury .

    I'm no fan of drafting guards before the 3rd round .

  12. #52
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    I certainly wouldn't use a top 10 pick on a guard, a guard hasn't gone that high in the last 15 years. The league just doesn't value the position as one that's worth such a high selection, and there's a reason for that.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post

    What PFF attempts to do is watch every single play on film, and assign grades based on what they see. I do think there are some faults with the system where they are inherently only working on a partial set of information (not knowing the specifics of the plays called) and you have to wonder about the qualifications of these people to do what it is that they do. But I do admire the amount of legwork they do and think it has some value as a measure, even if imperfect.
    And for certain situations, they can probably do a decent job. I remember following their rankings on Revis and those I can see making sense as he's a corner playing predominantly man coverage.

    But, how do you assign grades to individuals on an OL for each play when they are functioning as a unit? And then take those individual grades aggregate them to come up with a number to rank the unit? On its face that makes no sense and then in practice it makes no sense when it claims the Jets were the #3 Oline.

    Based on what was on the field, would anyone who knows anything about football claim that the Jets were anything close to that?

  14. #54
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    I must have watched a different team for 16 Weeks last season. Here's what I saw:

    Brick - played great in pass protection
    Slauson - scrub
    Mangold - very good
    Moore - declining
    Howard - decent

    We got no push upfront thanks to having undersizedm underwhelming Guards that can't maul anyone and we can't seal the edge on running and passing plays b/c there was no blocking TE on the roster.

  15. #55
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    I thought our run blocking was solid all year but Greene just sucks. Everytime Powell or McKnight ran the ball things looked smoother. Especially McKnight .. He got a 50 yard run one time the first time he carried the ball on a play where Greene gets tripped up by a DE or something. Greene just lacked so much explosion and had such poor vision and cut back ability that it made our line look terrible Powell's numbers didn't jump out but there were times when he got the ball you seen the cut back runs he'd get where he'd get 7 or 8 yards where Greene would have just run straight and fell after 2 yards.

    As for pass blocking ... this was shocking but if you think about it we played 2 or 3 TERRIBLE pass blocking games and the rest were pretty steady. Sanchez was just that bad but his supporting cast was just that WORSE. No receivers and no running game was a recipe for disaster for Sanchez. Still we need a new QB desperately...

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    I hearing alot of the things this year that I heard about Decastro last year on this board.. The sure fire can't miss pick who played a whooping 0 games last season and struggled all through preseason prior to the injury .

    I'm no fan of drafting guards before the 3rd round .
    Players at all positions get injured, it was not like he could not play. and he started the last three games of the year, 4 months after an ACL tear, because he wanted to give the steelers a sot at the playoffs.

    he got hurt the 2nd preseason game, how did he struggle? he gave an interview saying he found the speed of the game the toughest thing to get used to in the minicamps. The media blew that out of proportion.

    I do agree with your premise that Pick 9 is very early to take a guard.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Players at all positions get injured, it was not like he could not play. and he started the last three games of the year, 4 months after an ACL tear, because he wanted to give the steelers a sot at the playoffs.

    he got hurt the 2nd preseason game, how did he struggle? he gave an interview saying he found the speed of the game the toughest thing to get used to in the minicamps. The media blew that out of proportion.

    I do agree with your premise that Pick 9 is very early to take a guard.
    Steelers' DeCastro struggling physically
    http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...north&id=51983

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    Steelers' DeCastro struggling physically
    http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...north&id=51983
    Decastro was injured and didn't play until week 15 when he started the next 3 games for the steelers and looked good especially in pass protection. He's going to be a good player. Ditto for Mike Adams.


    Steelers never miss in the draft.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    Steelers' DeCastro struggling physically
    http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...north&id=51983
    That article was written 1 week into training camp. Aug 7. That is what i mean by blowing something out of proportion, 1 week into the preseason, before the 1st preseason game even. You said all preseason and the article was written by a Ravens writer.
    Last edited by patman; 01-31-2013 at 05:53 PM.

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