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Thread: It's all about guaranteed money

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    That is what a nightmare contract looks like for the Bills.

    Outside of a QB have any of these monster deals ever worked out? I am trying to think of one and I can't. I am talking like the past 10 years.
    DD has hit the nail on the head here.....

    There is NO SUCH THING as one of these contracts working out.

    Can anyone name a player, who, upon their contract season, in any of the major sports, has one of their best seasons.

    You would run out of room before you could finish answering that.

    Now, go back over said list and check-off all the guys, once they have said big contract, go out and have BETTER seasons.....NONE.

    A.J. Burnett in baseball has made a career out of having career seasons in contract years. Then, when someone buys the hype that he has finally pulled his tremendous talent together, he has 4-5 sub par years, until the next contract year. Both Blue Jay and Yankee fans can attest to this.

    Buffalo was just plain dumb in giving Mario Williams that kind of contract. Notice Houston didn't seem to upset in letting him go?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyjet View Post
    maybe yes, maybe no... depends on how the length of the contract is structured. and the guarantees. THe last contract was structured in a way that there was undoubtedly going to be problems this year.
    6 years 100m, with 50mil guaranteed. The guaranteed/non guaranteed money only matters if you plan on cutting or restructuring him within the terms of that contract. If he plays out the entire contract he's getting the full amount of the contract. So please tell me how to structure a 6 year contract that we can easily rid ourselves of the inflated money at some point?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    The basic premise of this thread is false in regards to Revis. He wants to be the highest paid defensive player and one of the highest paid players period. He is not interested in guaranteed money, he is interested in having the highest salary and the highest guarantee. He will want north of Mario Williams contract. He is in my view unsignable.
    We have heard much of what he wants to get paid but unless he makes a definitive statement (and he will not, his agents will not either) it is hard to ascertain.

    As to being unsignable ... some franchise will sign him.

    If it is over 12 million a year, I would prefer it is not the Jets and that he gets traded to an NFC team..

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snell41 View Post
    6 years 100m, with 50mil guaranteed. The guaranteed/non guaranteed money only matters if you plan on cutting or restructuring him within the terms of that contract. If he plays out the entire contract he's getting the full amount of the contract. So please tell me how to structure a 6 year contract that we can easily rid ourselves of the inflated money at some point?
    ok... 50 mil suggests an average of about 8 million a year toward the cap on a 6 year deal (simplistically; in reality, through roster bonuses, etc, the numbers year to year can vary. Then you have the non-guaranteed salary each year. The early years those numbers are smaller given the big signing bonuses. The later years are backloaded with money he will not see unless he renegotiates say around year 5 or 6. So on average, you get a cap hit of 12 mil or so a year for the first few years, with larger cap hits in later years unless you restructure the non-guaranteed salary and bonuses on the back-end.

    You are correct that there are no easy outs here. Danger is a lisfranc injury blows this up, or if you believe that Revis will decline rapidly like Asomugha. As much as Revis likes the money, he also has a passion to be the best player at his position to ever play the game. I think the risk is worth it, just my opinion. He is a once in a lifetime player. And the truth of it is that there is no player on offense that will command those dollars in the next few years, so there is a window to pay him. We will be building through the draft and the cap hits on those guys will be smaller.
    Last edited by phillyjet; 01-30-2013 at 05:22 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    DD has hit the nail on the head here.....

    There is NO SUCH THING as one of these contracts working out.

    Can anyone name a player, who, upon their contract season, in any of the major sports, has one of their best seasons.

    You would run out of room before you could finish answering that.

    Now, go back over said list and check-off all the guys, once they have said big contract, go out and have BETTER seasons.....NONE.

    A.J. Burnett in baseball has made a career out of having career seasons in contract years. Then, when someone buys the hype that he has finally pulled his tremendous talent together, he has 4-5 sub par years, until the next contract year. Both Blue Jay and Yankee fans can attest to this.

    Buffalo was just plain dumb in giving Mario Williams that kind of contract. Notice Houston didn't seem to upset in letting him go?
    Buffalo may have been dumb but the guy had 10 1/2 sacks hard to say he isn't off to good start In Making good on that contract.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop24 View Post
    Buffalo may have been dumb but the guy had 10 1/2 sacks hard to say he isn't off to good start In Making good on that contract.
    For that kind of money, 17th in the NFL, and 10th at his position (DE) in sack totals is "off to a good start" ?? What kind of money should JJ Watt be making with 20.5 sacks this year, or Aldon Smith with 19.5 ? Or Von Miller with 18.5 ?
    Last edited by Demosthenes9; 01-30-2013 at 05:52 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demosthenes9 View Post
    For that kind of money, 17th in the NFL, and 10th at his position (DE) in sack totals is "off to a good start" ?? What kind of money should JJ Watt be making with 20.5 sacks this year, or Aldon Smith with 19.5 ? Or Von Miller with 18.5 ?
    They will make more when there time comes. Your a FA he was signed to duplicate the production that he had in Houston and once he got assimilated into the D he became productive. he did not get paid to lead the league in sack, tackles or what ever. he had a history of performance in Houston,
    Buffalo paid that salary for him to have those results in Buffalo. The highest paid player is normally the guy who signed the latest contract, not the most productive player who may still be on a rookie deal or nearing the end of a 2nd deal. Brees is getting 25% more than Brady, but he is not 25% better, he was just the latest to sign.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    DD has hit the nail on the head here.....

    There is NO SUCH THING as one of these contracts working out.

    Can anyone name a player, who, upon their contract season, in any of the major sports, has one of their best seasons.

    You would run out of room before you could finish answering that.

    Now, go back over said list and check-off all the guys, once they have said big contract, go out and have BETTER seasons.....NONE.

    A.J. Burnett in baseball has made a career out of having career seasons in contract years. Then, when someone buys the hype that he has finally pulled his tremendous talent together, he has 4-5 sub par years, until the next contract year. Both Blue Jay and Yankee fans can attest to this.

    Buffalo was just plain dumb in giving Mario Williams that kind of contract. Notice Houston didn't seem to upset in letting him go?

    Because when you think you can sign Reggie White, you do it. When you think you can sign Deion Sanders you do it. When you think you can sign Revis, you do it.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyjet View Post
    ok... 50 mil suggests an average of about 8 million a year toward the cap on a 6 year deal (simplistically; in reality, through roster bonuses, etc, the numbers year to year can vary. Then you have the non-guaranteed salary each year. The early years those numbers are smaller given the big signing bonuses. The later years are backloaded with money he will not see unless he renegotiates say around year 5 or 6. So on average, you get a cap hit of 12 mil or so a year for the first few years, with larger cap hits in later years unless you restructure the non-guaranteed salary and bonuses on the back-end.

    You are correct that there are no easy outs here. Danger is a lisfranc injury blows this up, or if you believe that Revis will decline rapidly like Asomugha. As much as Revis likes the money, he also has a passion to be the best player at his position to ever play the game. I think the risk is worth it, just my opinion. He is a once in a lifetime player. And the truth of it is that there is no player on offense that will command those dollars in the next few years, so there is a window to pay him. We will be building through the draft and the cap hits on those guys will be smaller.
    I don't think you saw my post earlier...

    This isn't a guess, this is the cap hit for Mario Williams in years 2, 3, and 4

    Age 28 - 2013: $12.4M (If cut $29.7M)
    Age 29 - 2014: $18.4M (If Cut $17.8M, $600k Savings)
    Age 30 - 2015: $19M (If Cut $12.6M, $6.4M Savings)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyjet View Post
    ok... 50 mil suggests an average of about 8 million a year toward the cap on a 6 year deal (simplistically; in reality, through roster bonuses, etc, the numbers year to year can vary. Then you have the non-guaranteed salary each year. The early years those numbers are smaller given the big signing bonuses. The later years are backloaded with money he will not see unless he renegotiates say around year 5 or 6. So on average, you get a cap hit of 12 mil or so a year for the first few years, with larger cap hits in later years unless you restructure the non-guaranteed salary and bonuses on the back-end.

    You are correct that there are no easy outs here. Danger is a lisfranc injury blows this up, or if you believe that Revis will decline rapidly like Asomugha. As much as Revis likes the money, he also has a passion to be the best player at his position to ever play the game. I think the risk is worth it, just my opinion. He is a once in a lifetime player. And the truth of it is that there is no player on offense that will command those dollars in the next few years, so there is a window to pay him. We will be building through the draft and the cap hits on those guys will be smaller.
    Philly, there is NO WAY Revis would sign that contract. He wants $15M a year and a signing bonus. Thinking 5 years $100 million, $55 million guaranteed. Average cap hit $17-20

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    Because when you think you can sign Reggie White, you do it. When you think you can sign Deion Sanders you do it. When you think you can sign Revis, you do it.
    Not if it cripples your team. Whixh Revis would.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
    Philly, there is NO WAY Revis would sign that contract. He wants $15M a year and a signing bonus. Thinking 5 years $100 million, $55 million guaranteed. Average cap hit $17-20
    Disagree there. Most contracts have a lot of back ended bluster, and even if they don't the dead money starts to decline. The last Revis contract was 4 years 46 million, and he received between 26 and 32 million in guarantees. Paid out 32 million in first two years so he could have bragging rights. Jets could structure signing bonus in a way so that 1st yr cap hit is 10-12 million, with larger hits in year 2 and 3 ( up to 17 million), and then declining in years 4 and 5. They could afford those large cap hits in years 2 and 3 because Sanchez and Tone contracts are done, and there are no Wilkersons or Coples yet to re-sign. Offensive skill players will be young draftees so won't eat much cap.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaSteve View Post
    DD has hit the nail on the head here.....

    There is NO SUCH THING as one of these contracts working out.

    Can anyone name a player, who, upon their contract season, in any of the major sports, has one of their best seasons.

    You would run out of room before you could finish answering that.

    Now, go back over said list and check-off all the guys, once they have said big contract, go out and have BETTER seasons.....NONE.

    A.J. Burnett in baseball has made a career out of having career seasons in contract years. Then, when someone buys the hype that he has finally pulled his tremendous talent together, he has 4-5 sub par years, until the next contract year. Both Blue Jay and Yankee fans can attest to this.

    Buffalo was just plain dumb in giving Mario Williams that kind of contract. Notice Houston didn't seem to upset in letting him go?
    How about Barry Bonds? His first season in San Francisco he had a career year for him up until them and it was long before he started using roids.

    How about Jim Kelly? His first season in the NFL turned out great after the fold of the USFL.

    How about Lebron James? After he left Cleveland, he went to Miami for boo koo dollars and took the Heat to the finals.

    How about Shaquille O'Neal? He went to the Lakers from Orlando and the rest is history.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying that I disagree with you here. I'm just saying that it only takes one contract to prove your point irrelevant. Every athlete in every situation is completely and totally unique. One situation does not prove validity in the next.

    But different, at least in my opinion, is Darrelle Revis. This is a guy whose only claim to fame is EXCELLENCE, and nothing short of it. He is as sure a bet as death and taxes.

    I believe the Jets should certainly resign Darrelle Revis to a blockbuster contract. He'll prove you right for paying him that amount each and every year. When he's on the field, it is like the defense having 12 men instead of 11. You never have to commit a Safety on his side of the field. Just leave him with the opponents best receiver and plan on that player being completely neutralized and removed from action.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyjet View Post
    ok... 50 mil suggests an average of about 8 million a year toward the cap on a 6 year deal (simplistically; in reality, through roster bonuses, etc, the numbers year to year can vary. Then you have the non-guaranteed salary each year. The early years those numbers are smaller given the big signing bonuses. The later years are backloaded with money he will not see unless he renegotiates say around year 5 or 6. So on average, you get a cap hit of 12 mil or so a year for the first few years, with larger cap hits in later years unless you restructure the non-guaranteed salary and bonuses on the back-end.

    You are correct that there are no easy outs here. Danger is a lisfranc injury blows this up, or if you believe that Revis will decline rapidly like Asomugha. As much as Revis likes the money, he also has a passion to be the best player at his position to ever play the game. I think the risk is worth it, just my opinion. He is a once in a lifetime player. And the truth of it is that there is no player on offense that will command those dollars in the next few years, so there is a window to pay him. We will be building through the draft and the cap hits on those guys will be smaller.
    you're backloading a short term contract. That 8 mil a year is accelerated at any point if we try to threaten to cut him to incent him to restructure, say in year 5, for example. So his camp knows we will take a 16m dead money hit if we were to cut him before year 5. Why would they not play hardball and dare us to cut him and take on 16m in dead money and just say no to restructuring so they can collect on the salary? When the contract is that large, 6 years is a short period. There is no backloading it because it's expensive no matter what. You sign him to a 6 year deal for 100m and 50 guaranteed you are paying out that entire contract unless he retires.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    With guys like Revis once the guaranteed money is paid they will holdout.

    We front loaded his last contract and he made over 30 million in the first two years and then all of a sudden he started complaining prior to last season.
    From what I understand they negotiated that deal with the intent to come back in 2 years to try to lock him up for a jet for good...I believe thats one of the reason s why revis camp is pissed at the jets/ mr t.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

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