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Thread: The Myth that the Jets are in Salary Cap Hell

  1. #61
    Just saw this on Rotoworld:

    Santonio Holmes - WR - NYJ

    ESPN New York suggests the Jets could ask Santonio Holmes to take a pay cut.
    Holmes is owed $11 million in 2013, $7.5 million of which is guaranteed. He won't be released. Still, it's a lot to pay for an under-producing wideout coming off two surgeries to repair a Lisfranc fracture. New GM John Idzik has inherited a steaming pile of slop to work through this offseason.

    Source: ESPN New York
    Nothing major, but asking him to restructure is the correct approach.

    I don't think it will happen, but Idzik knows the deal.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Just saw this on Rotoworld:



    Nothing major, but asking him to restructure is the correct approach.

    I don't think it will happen, but Idzik knows the deal.
    What leverage do the Jets have? I cannot see Santonio taking a pay cut.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Just saw this on Rotoworld:



    Nothing major, but asking him to restructure is the correct approach.

    I don't think it will happen, but Idzik knows the deal.
    Not if it means guaranteeing him for more years a la Bart Scott.

    I'd rather just pay him this year and be able to cut him clean next year. $8.25MM savings if cut in 2014.

  4. #64
    When Rotoworld starts a blurb with "ESPN New York suggests", it really means "Rich Cimini suggests".

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Not if it means guaranteeing him for more years la Bart Scott.

    I'd rather just pay him this year and be able to cut him clean next year. $8.25MM savings if cut in 2014.
    that's the thing. restructure usually means more years added. and he's not taking a pay cut. suck it up this year and move forward with extra cap space in 2014

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Not if it means guaranteeing him for more years la Bart Scott.

    I'd rather just pay him this year and be able to cut him clean next year. $8.25MM savings if cut in 2014.
    +1000000000000000000000000

    Same for Sanchez. No more mortgaging against the future.

  7. #67
    his contract is for 11 mill he is guaranteed 7.75, I could see him taking a 1 mill cut and pushing another 2 to next year.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    What leverage do the Jets have? I cannot see Santonio taking a pay cut.
    I agree. The only way that would would happen is if we guarantee part of his 2014 salary which is a TERRIBLE idea.

    Personally Id love to see Idzik take the opposite approach. Call Holmes in and simply say the following:

    "Im not going to ask you to buy into the team or ask you to be optimistic that we are moving in a new, positive direction. It has become apparent, not only in the Jets FO, but in the league, that you are not a team guy and there isnt much I can do about that, especially since we will be keeping you in 2013 and will be paying you $11 million.

    What I can tell you is there is no way in hell you will see one single cent of what you are owed in 2014 unless you have a ridiculous year for this team. I can also assure you that if your production isnt there as the season goes on, we will give your snaps to younger players and you can become a FA with poor stats, and injury history, and a terrible reputation. Good luck with recouping the money you would have had here when you hit the open market with a resume like that.

    You are playing 2013 to get the best contract you can in 2014 and beyond, thats it. I know that and you know that, so you should probably do everything you can to have a great season."

    While you could argue that this will cause the player to have a bad attitude, or resent the organization etc...with Holmes, that is already true, and he cant do much worse to the team. Plus, we HAVE to pay him in 2013 and are free in 2014, so if he starts his act, we can send him home (like the bucs did with keyshawn) and tank his free agency while not hurting the future of the team.

    Its time to take a hardline approach with this guy, and the chips are in our favor to do so.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I agree. The only way that would would happen is if we guarantee part of his 2014 salary which is a TERRIBLE idea.

    Personally Id love to see Idzik take the opposite approach. Call Holmes in and simply say the following:

    "Im not going to ask you to buy into the team or ask you to be optimistic that we are moving in a new, positive direction. It has become apparent, not only in the Jets FO, but in the league, that you are not a team guy and there isnt much I can do about that, especially since we will be keeping you in 2013 and will be paying you $11 million.

    What I can tell you is there is no way in hell you will see one single cent of what you are owed in 2014 unless you have a ridiculous year for this team. I can also assure you that if your production isnt there as the season goes on, we will give your snaps to younger players and you can become a FA with poor stats, and injury history, and a terrible reputation. Good luck with recouping the money you would have had here when you hit the open market with a resume like that.

    You are playing 2013 to get the best contract you can in 2014 and beyond, thats it. I know that and you know that, so you should probably do everything you can to have a great season."

    While you could argue that this will cause the player to have a bad attitude, or resent the organization etc...with Holmes, that is already true, and he cant do much worse to the team. Plus, we HAVE to pay him in 2013 and are free in 2014, so if he starts his act, we can send him home (like the bucs did with keyshawn) and tank his free agency while not hurting the future of the team.

    Its time to take a hardline approach with this guy, and the chips are in our favor to do so.
    While I agree that we probably shouldn't restructure to reduce his 2013 cap hit, this is where the Jets hold the leverage. Santonio knows he wont get a new deal in 2014 anywhere worth his current one, so theoretically the Jets could get him to sacrifice some money if they plan on keeping him done the line... which again, given Santonio's history, I dont think is a good idea.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by shuler82 View Post
    While I agree that we probably shouldn't restructure to reduce his 2013 cap hit, this is where the Jets hold the leverage. Santonio knows he wont get a new deal in 2014 anywhere worth his current one, so theoretically the Jets could get him to sacrifice some money if they plan on keeping him done the line... which again, given Santonio's history, I dont think is a good idea.
    I guess the Steelers knew what they were doing when they dumped this jerk for a 5th...and then replaced him with Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, etc.

    I hope our new GM has that kind of personnel savvy...

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I agree. The only way that would would happen is if we guarantee part of his 2014 salary which is a TERRIBLE idea.

    Personally Id love to see Idzik take the opposite approach. Call Holmes in and simply say the following:

    "Im not going to ask you to buy into the team or ask you to be optimistic that we are moving in a new, positive direction. It has become apparent, not only in the Jets FO, but in the league, that you are not a team guy and there isnt much I can do about that, especially since we will be keeping you in 2013 and will be paying you $11 million.

    What I can tell you is there is no way in hell you will see one single cent of what you are owed in 2014 unless you have a ridiculous year for this team. I can also assure you that if your production isnt there as the season goes on, we will give your snaps to younger players and you can become a FA with poor stats, and injury history, and a terrible reputation. Good luck with recouping the money you would have had here when you hit the open market with a resume like that.

    You are playing 2013 to get the best contract you can in 2014 and beyond, thats it. I know that and you know that, so you should probably do everything you can to have a great season."

    While you could argue that this will cause the player to have a bad attitude, or resent the organization etc...with Holmes, that is already true, and he cant do much worse to the team. Plus, we HAVE to pay him in 2013 and are free in 2014, so if he starts his act, we can send him home (like the bucs did with keyshawn) and tank his free agency while not hurting the future of the team.

    Its time to take a hardline approach with this guy, and the chips are in our favor to do so.
    The guy is coming off liz-franc surgery, and will have a 2nd operation later this month. The odds are very good that he might not even play the full season to begin with. He may never play football again. This is not an ACL. If the GM takes that hard line, what is to stop him from not playing until December and give the injury even more time to heal. I never heard of a 2nd operation being required. (edit 2nd surgery to remove plate, he says he may be available during camp)

    Holmes to me is "street" if he gets threatened i think it will have the opposite of the desired effect.
    Last edited by patman; 02-06-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    The guy is coming off liz-franc surgery, and will have a 2nd operation later this month. The odds are very good that he might not even play the full season to begin with. He may never play football again. If the GM takes that hard line, what is to stop him from not playing until December and give the injury even more time to heal. I never heard of a 2nd operation being required. (edit 2nd surgery to remove plate, he says he may be available during camp)

    Holmes to me is "street" if he gets threatened i think it will have the opposite of the desired effect.
    And what would the opposite of him being a completely atrocious teammate, quitting during games, refusing to attend sanchez's meeting at the end of 2011 and repeatedly dropping balls? Can we really get worse?

    If he milks the injury, then we PUP him and play a younger guy the first 8 games of the year. If we are winning, it means we have improved QB play, and he might actually want to return and try to boost his value.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I agree. The only way that would would happen is if we guarantee part of his 2014 salary which is a TERRIBLE idea.

    Personally Id love to see Idzik take the opposite approach. Call Holmes in and simply say the following:

    "Im not going to ask you to buy into the team or ask you to be optimistic that we are moving in a new, positive direction. It has become apparent, not only in the Jets FO, but in the league, that you are not a team guy and there isnt much I can do about that, especially since we will be keeping you in 2013 and will be paying you $11 million.

    What I can tell you is there is no way in hell you will see one single cent of what you are owed in 2014 unless you have a ridiculous year for this team. I can also assure you that if your production isnt there as the season goes on, we will give your snaps to younger players and you can become a FA with poor stats, and injury history, and a terrible reputation. Good luck with recouping the money you would have had here when you hit the open market with a resume like that.

    You are playing 2013 to get the best contract you can in 2014 and beyond, thats it. I know that and you know that, so you should probably do everything you can to have a great season."

    While you could argue that this will cause the player to have a bad attitude, or resent the organization etc...with Holmes, that is already true, and he cant do much worse to the team. Plus, we HAVE to pay him in 2013 and are free in 2014, so if he starts his act, we can send him home (like the bucs did with keyshawn) and tank his free agency while not hurting the future of the team.

    Its time to take a hardline approach with this guy, and the chips are in our favor to do so.
    Good post, and I hope Idzik does approach 'Tone.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by petejet View Post
    What leverage do the Jets have? I cannot see Santonio taking a pay cut.
    The Jets have no leverage.

    The only reasons why players restructure are:

    1) More guaranteed money upfront.

    2) Help the team free up cap space for other contracts.

    The Jets aren't doing #1 and Holmes is not doing #2.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    The Jets have no leverage.

    The only reasons why players restructure are:

    1) More guaranteed money upfront.

    2) Help the team free up cap space for other contracts.

    The Jets aren't doing #1 and Holmes is not doing #2.
    They shouldn't do anything. Holmes cannot be on this team beyond 2013.

    Two reasons:

    1. The ridiculous contract.

    2. Even if Santonio comes back and has a monster year worthy of the contract, it will only be a matter of time before he returns to his old ways.

    He has to go.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Will Sanchez restructure?

    Will Harris restructure? He's the most overpaid/overrated ILB in the NFL.

    Will Revis, Cromartie and Landry give the Jets a "hometown discount"?
    I understand that you like to troll, but at least read the damn article. Jason cleary provides market reasoning for any restructures/extensions.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Excellent read. Great job by Jason.

    We aren't in cap hell. We will get under the cap pretty easily and have some cap room BUT we will also have a lot of starting spots to fill.

    The only thing I disagree with is I would cut Holmes and Harris after 2013. I want no part of restructuring their contracts. I am also leery of restructuring Mangold. If he has a third consecutive down year in 2013 then we should think of going in a different direction unless he is willing to take an extremely team-friendly deal.

    I would rather the Jets take all of the cap/roster hits in 2013 and go into 2014 with a lot of cap room and roster flexibility. There will be many holes to fill but we aren't going anywhere unless we draft better anyway regardless of the cap situation. With solid drafts in 2013 and 2014 (hopefully with 2014 yielding a franchise QB) and some smart FA acquisitions we will be right back where we were in 2008.
    I'm not cutting Harris or Holmes, but I agree on the use of 2013 to clear room for 2014 and beyond. In fact, rather than restructure Sanchez to create cap room for 2013, I'd consider cutting him and eating the 17M hit. If not, then stand pat. Creating an extra 6M in cap room this year isn't worth adding 6M in dead money if he is cut in 2014

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    The guy is coming off liz-franc surgery, and will have a 2nd operation later this month. The odds are very good that he might not even play the full season to begin with. He may never play football again. This is not an ACL. If the GM takes that hard line, what is to stop him from not playing until December and give the injury even more time to heal. I never heard of a 2nd operation being required. (edit 2nd surgery to remove plate, he says he may be available during camp)

    Holmes to me is "street" if he gets threatened i think it will have the opposite of the desired effect.
    He had the procedure in Jan, and it was to remove screws, it's not a second surgery on the lisfranc injury, there is no evidence to suggest as of yet that I've seen that he will miss any time, you're spinning.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Great work. But I don't understand why you took the savings and assumed Holmes would rework his deal unless significant money is guaranteed. When you pointed out it was the case. The guy is coming off the worse possible injury for a WR, an injury where most players take a full year at minimum. The possibility that he misses games is just too real to cut his pay without tit for tat in 2014 dollars.

    As a matter of fact the team expressed interest in getting rid of him already he knows he is not in the long range plans. Never mind tit for tat I could see him wanting even more of the 2014 salary as a guarantee than what he is given up in 2013 dollars.

    I don't get why Harris does the deal. It seems not to give him any extra real money over the next two years. as it is cutting his 2014 by 3.5 mill, the same amount that is being allocated to his extension. It seems like he would be better getting his 11 mill now. if the jets cut him in 2014 he is likely to get a better deal as a FA than what Jason laid out for him.

    All the other moves seem to make sense.
    The Jets have leverage over Holmes because of the offset language. If they cut him, his max earnings are likely 7.75M, because he won't get more than that from another team. And his 2014 salary is likely more than he would get from another team as well.

    Given that, and the fact that the Jets can reap more than 8M in cap space by cutting him in 2014 as his deal is currently structured, Holmes likely agrees to a real pay cut (say, 5M) in exchange for a guarantee of his 2014 salary. It's a net win for him over being cut, getting 7.75M this year, and significantly less in 2014.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I agree. The only way that would would happen is if we guarantee part of his 2014 salary which is a TERRIBLE idea.

    Personally Id love to see Idzik take the opposite approach. Call Holmes in and simply say the following:

    "Im not going to ask you to buy into the team or ask you to be optimistic that we are moving in a new, positive direction. It has become apparent, not only in the Jets FO, but in the league, that you are not a team guy and there isnt much I can do about that, especially since we will be keeping you in 2013 and will be paying you $11 million.

    What I can tell you is there is no way in hell you will see one single cent of what you are owed in 2014 unless you have a ridiculous year for this team. I can also assure you that if your production isnt there as the season goes on, we will give your snaps to younger players and you can become a FA with poor stats, and injury history, and a terrible reputation. Good luck with recouping the money you would have had here when you hit the open market with a resume like that.

    You are playing 2013 to get the best contract you can in 2014 and beyond, thats it. I know that and you know that, so you should probably do everything you can to have a great season."

    While you could argue that this will cause the player to have a bad attitude, or resent the organization etc...with Holmes, that is already true, and he cant do much worse to the team. Plus, we HAVE to pay him in 2013 and are free in 2014, so if he starts his act, we can send him home (like the bucs did with keyshawn) and tank his free agency while not hurting the future of the team.

    Its time to take a hardline approach with this guy, and the chips are in our favor to do so.
    Agreed. This season MUST be used to get rid of the dead weight bloated contracts and absorb the cap hits of the Sanchez and Holmes deals so they can be freed of them in 2014. Guaranteeing a dime more of Holmes salary in 2014 with the hopes of saving a few dollars in 2013 would be foolish. 2014 can be a very good cap situation if managed properly this year. I really think Idzik is going to do the right thing here.

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