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Thread: Is Kenny Vaccaro a reach at #9?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWjet View Post
    I would like to see us trade back with St.louis for their two first rounders...not sure how the points add up but could be a great move for us
    I like trading down, and getting more pieces. We are certainly more than a few pieces away, so the more top draftpicks, the better.

  2. #22
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    The more I d*cked around with mock drafts the lower and lower safeties went down the board, to the point where I don't think there's any reason to draft one in any round (compared to the other talent that should be there) before the 5th or 6th, especially if the Jets long-term plan includes both Revis and Cromartie.

    Mathieu would be a nice pick in the 5th or 6th, make him a hybrid FS/nickel who you can blitz with. Could turn into a steal.

  3. #23
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    I agree with those who say it would be hard to see the team take defense in the first round

    I agree that Warmack would be a safe choice, and has the potential to be an elite guard, I just have a problem giving so much money and investing so much in the OG position, especially with so much money invested in Mangold and Ferguson, and our needs at the skill positions and potentially again at QB.

    I'm torn with what the team should do, I need to see how things play out in FA.

  4. #24
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    With the new rookie pay scale I honestly don't think that it matters anymore where someone is picked.

    All rookie deals are 4 year deals unless the player is a 1st round pick. Then the team has a 5th year option for that player. If it's a top 10 pick then the 5th year is fully guaranteed at the rate of the Top 10 paid players at that position. Pick 11-32 is the average of the 3rd-25th highest paid players at that position.

    Quite frankly, Warmack at 9 with the 5th year option wouldn't be a bad deal at all because I'm pretty sure that guy is gonna beast it in the NFL anyway. You'd be saving yourself some money too because Guards aren't paid that highly either.... as opposed to say a QB or a RB. At least that's how I understand it. I had to look up the details because I still don't understand how their salary is calculated.

    Here's an excerpt:

    Total Rookie Compensation Pool

    Now I forgot to mention this earlier, but the wage scale also limits the amount of money that can be spent on the total value of the rookie contracts, including bonuses.

    This is called the “total rookie compensation” pool.

    So sticking with the 49ers’ 2011 situation, the league put a cap on the value of all their rookie contracts at $38,147,464.

    In other words, if all their 2011 draft picks play-out their four-year rookie contracts, the total amount of money the 49ers can spend on paying these players over those four seasons $38,147,464.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    I agree with those who say it would be hard to see the team take defense in the first round

    I agree that Warmack would be a safe choice, and has the potential to be an elite guard, I just have a problem giving so much money and investing so much in the OG position, especially with so much money invested in Mangold and Ferguson, and our needs at the skill positions and potentially again at QB.

    I'm torn with what the team should do, I need to see how things play out in FA.
    It's crucial that we get an impact guy at #9.

    And if you look at the contributions that guys like Carl Nicks, Mike Iupati, Marshall Yanda and Logan Mankins make to their respective teams, then it's clear that this whole "no interior OL in the Top 10" is an outdated philosophy grounded in ignorance.

    There is no safer prospect in this draft than Warmack. Plug him in between Brick and Mangold and you have what could very well be the most dominant leftside OL in football. And I mean right away, not 2-3 years down the road.

    Warmack doesn't just have pro-bowl ability. This guy could very well be in Canton 15 years from now. Hell, most people fully expect him to be.

    Passrushers like Ansah and Mingo are risky, boom or bust type prospects.

    I say go with the closest to a sure thing that there is in this draft.

    This team needs to get back to what made us successful, wearing on teams and pushing them around in the 4th quarter.
    Last edited by Untouchable; 02-10-2013 at 10:25 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    It's crucial that we get an impact guy at #9.

    And if you look at the contributions that guys like Carl Nick, Mike Iupati, Marshall Yanda and Logan Mankins make to their reapective teams, then it's clear that this whole "no interior OL in the Top 10" is an outdated philosophy grounded in ignorance.

    There is no safer prospect in this draft than Warmack. Plug him in between Brick and Mangold and you have what could very well be the most dominant leftside OL in football. And I mean right away, not 2-3 years down the road.

    Warmack doesn't just have pro-bowl ability. This guy could very well be in Canton 15 years from now. Hell, most people fully expect him to be.

    Passrushers like Ansah and Mingo are risky, boom or bust type prospects.

    I say go with the closest to a sure thing that there is in this draft.

    This team needs to get back to what made us successful, wearing on teams and pushing them around in the 4th quarter.
    +1

    If you're talking "best player available" then he's even more of a no brainer. I honestly think he might go higher though so we'll see. We went to two AFC Championship Games with Faneca holding down the left side. That was not a coincidence. You can see how we fell off the map in the rushing attack because of Slauson. Brick and Mangold are great players but they really do need someone between them that can hold their own weight. If this game truly is won in the trenches then I'd take Warmack and wouldn't look back. Our biggest weakness is on the offensive side of the ball... and there isn't a single player in this draft that's worth a Top 10 pick on offense at the skill positions. Take the sure thing. Especially for a new GM, he can't miss on that pick which is why I'm really thinking we'll be taking Warmack if he's available. Unless the guy is an absolute dirt bag with serious character concerns... which I haven't heard.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    +1

    If you're talking "best player available" then he's even more of a no brainer. I honestly think he might go higher though so we'll see. We went to two AFC Championship Games with Faneca holding down the left side. That was not a coincidence. You can see how we fell off the map in the rushing attack because of Slauson. Brick and Mangold are great players but they really do need someone between them that can hold their own weight. If this game truly is won in the trenches then I'd take Warmack and wouldn't look back. Our biggest weakness is on the offensive side of the ball... and there isn't a single player in this draft that's worth a Top 10 pick on offense at the skill positions. Take the sure thing. Especially for a new GM, he can't miss on that pick which is why I'm really thinking we'll be taking Warmack if he's available. Unless the guy is an absolute dirt bag with serious character concerns... which I haven't heard.
    I've seen plenty of mocks with Warmack going as high as #6 to the Browns. Would actually be a damn good pick for them.

    Trent Richardson running behind Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz and Warmack?

    Yeah, I'd sign up for that if I was a Browns fan.

    Especially in the AFC North where physicality is key.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    +1

    If you're talking "best player available" then he's even more of a no brainer. I honestly think he might go higher though so we'll see. We went to two AFC Championship Games with Faneca holding down the left side. That was not a coincidence. You can see how we fell off the map in the rushing attack because of Slauson. Brick and Mangold are great players but they really do need someone between them that can hold their own weight. If this game truly is won in the trenches then I'd take Warmack and wouldn't look back. Our biggest weakness is on the offensive side of the ball... and there isn't a single player in this draft that's worth a Top 10 pick on offense at the skill positions. Take the sure thing. Especially for a new GM, he can't miss on that pick which is why I'm really thinking we'll be taking Warmack if he's available. Unless the guy is an absolute dirt bag with serious character concerns... which I haven't heard.
    faneca was replaced after 2009 with slauson and the OL didn't skip a beat. replacing woody with hunter is what screwed it up

  9. #29
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    So many good Safeties in this draft that it's not worth it to take Vacarro at #9 IMO

    You could get one of the SEC guys in the 2nd or 3rd: Matt Elam (FLA), Bacarri Rambo (UGA), DJ Swearinger (SCAR), or Reid from LSU

    Any of them would be great

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by southside View Post
    With the new rookie pay scale I honestly don't think that it matters anymore where someone is picked.

    All rookie deals are 4 year deals unless the player is a 1st round pick. Then the team has a 5th year option for that player. If it's a top 10 pick then the 5th year is fully guaranteed at the rate of the Top 10 paid players at that position. Pick 11-32 is the average of the 3rd-25th highest paid players at that position.

    Quite frankly, Warmack at 9 with the 5th year option wouldn't be a bad deal at all because I'm pretty sure that guy is gonna beast it in the NFL anyway. You'd be saving yourself some money too because Guards aren't paid that highly either.... as opposed to say a QB or a RB. At least that's how I understand it. I had to look up the details because I still don't understand how their salary is calculated.

    Here's an excerpt:
    Agreed, would love Warmack at 9. Would have love DeCastro at 16 last year, but looks like Coples is a solid pick. I remember an article from last year that had Rex talking with Saban at the Senior Bowl. He loves those Bama players.
    http://jetsrant.com/2012/01/24/rex-r...obile-alabama/

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    faneca was replaced after 2009 with slauson and the OL didn't skip a beat. replacing woody with hunter is what screwed it up
    Faneca was with the Jets and the starting LG for all 19 games during the 2009 season.

    Slauson, 2010-present day, has definitely been a downgrade. Is he serviceable? Yes, but Warmack could easily be a Top 5 G in the league almost instantly. You can find a pass rusher outside of the 1st round, although with Wrecks still on as H.C. I can't agree with those on here who think we'll go anything but defense at 9.

  12. #32
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    Unless it is a CB (or another damned kicker) we need to take the best available player at 9 regardless of position.

    Add as much talent as possible to the core of this team and use free agents to fill the holes.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I've seen plenty of mocks with Warmack going as high as #6 to the Browns. Would actually be a damn good pick for them.

    Trent Richardson running behind Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz and Warmack?

    Yeah, I'd sign up for that if I was a Browns fan.

    Especially in the AFC North where physicality is key.
    How about Warmack at 9 and Fluker in the second round???

    O line problems solved.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    How about Warmack at 9 and Fluker in the second round???

    O line problems solved.
    I'm totally on board with double dipping on OL.

    My personal preference would be Warmack in the 1st and Warford in the 2nd.

    Get back to smashing teams in the mouth.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'm totally on board with double dipping on OL.

    My personal preference would be Warmack in the 1st and Warford in the 2nd.

    Get back to smashing teams in the mouth.
    I like Fluker for RT, could move to LT if Brick gets injured. Brick, Slausson, Mangold, Warmack and Fluker would be a nice way to start rebuilding this offense.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    I like Fluker for RT, could move to LT if Brick gets injured. Brick, Slausson, Mangold, Warmack and Fluker would be a nice way to start rebuilding this offense.
    I prefer Warford in Round 2 because I think Howard is pretty decent.

    He's mediocre in pass protection but was arguably our best run blocker last year. Definitely an upgrade over Hunter and is still young enough and chock full of potential to improve.

    Both Warmack and Warford possess that mean, nasty streak. These guys are the definition of maulers. Just want to push you around and hit you in the mouth for 60 minutes.


    LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    LG Chance Warmack
    C Nick Mangold
    RG Larry Warford
    RT Austin Howard


    That looks damn good to me. Then go passrusher and RB with the next two picks.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I prefer Warford in Round 2 because I think Howard is pretty decent.

    He's mediocre in pass protection but was arguably our best run blocker last year. Definitely an upgrade over Hunter and is still young enough and chock full of potential to improve.

    Both Warmack and Warford possess that mean, nasty streak. These guys are the definition of maulers. Just want to push you around and hit you in the mouth for 60 minutes.


    LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    LG Chance Warmack
    C Nick Mangold
    RG Larry Warford
    RT Austin Howard


    That looks damn good to me. Then go passrusher and RB with the next two picks.
    I guess I am not as sold on Howard as you are. Given the new offense, I think having a RT that can pass block is a priority over a run grater of a RT. Fluker, IMO can do both. You put Warmack between Mangold and Fluker and you can do whatever you want to a defensive line.

  18. #38
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    Sign him.


    Chance Warmack - 320lbs, 6'3"
    • Unanimous first team All-American
    • First team All-SEC
    • Has a team-best 37 pancake blocks
    • Has made only two penalties in 732 snaps this year
    • 39 career starts at left guard

    2012 (SENIOR): One of the senior leaders on the Crimson Tide offensive line ... unanimous first team All-American and first team All-SEC selection ... first-team All-America selection by the AFCA, FWAA, Walter Camp, AP, Sporting News and Sports Illustrated ... a veteran of 39 career starts, all at left guard ... was on the watch list for the Outland Trophy (top interior lineman) and a quarterfinalist for the Lombardi Award (top lineman or linebacker) ... has missed only seven assignments in 728 snaps this season (99.0 percent) while allowed only 3.5 sacks in 287 pass attempts ... leads the team with 37 pancake blocks ... graded out at 90 percent or better in seven games, with a season average of 89.4 ... two-time SEC offensive lineman of the week (Arkansas & Mississippi State) and three-time Alabama offensive player of the week ... has blocked for eight 100-yard rushing performances this season and 23 in his career

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWjet View Post
    I would like to see us trade back with St.louis for their two first rounders...not sure how the points add up but could be a great move for us
    Why would St Louis want to give up two firsts for our one? They have plenty needs, just like us.

    If we were sitting with #16 and #22, and traded them to move up to #9, I'd be screaming for the GM to get fired.

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