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Thread: Can you continue to pay psl just not renew tickets

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkrotraz View Post
    Giants did not do financing

    My bigger question is the NY Jets obviously dont have a NY or NJ banking license. As a non bank lending money and charging interest I wonder how enforceable that contract is.

    I paid off my PSL so I dont care but anyone on 15 year plan at 8% they dont have much skin in game and financing a losing investment at 8% is crazy.

    Bottom line Jets overcharged for 90% of seats. I am still happy as I am in the 10% that got a good value seat. If not I would have not paid off PSL so quick as now my options are limited.
    you are correct. The Giants provided no financing. Fans had to take out loans via other methods to pay for their PSLs if they were not willing to front the PSL money. Forgot about that. Goes to show you the level of desperation for the Jets to get people to buy PSLs vs. the Giants.

    Also, you don't need a law degree to know that anyone can lend money and charge interest provided it does not violate usury laws. Completely legal and enforceable.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkrotraz View Post
    I personally know a few people who bought PSLs and used the grandpa or grandmas name. No charge to transfer between family members and good luck chasing down old folk for money and in contract it states upon death of PSL holder any remaining balance dies too.

    We all should have pick names from local nursing home
    or just use your pets' names.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    The jets can set any price they want for tickets for individual games, but it doesn't mean they'll get it. stubhub has become the effective ticket stock exchange, where buyers and sellers match supply and demand to set the prices. if the jets were to take control of a majority of the available inventory, this marketplace would evaporate and we'd be where we were pre-internet. if 80% of the tickets were available, and the jets jacked up prices to a much higher percentage of face than would otherwise be available at SH, the jets are gambling that people will pay the higher prices. the burden shifts to aggressive marketing to not only sell psls that have been forfeited but to sell tickets to individual games at considerably higher prices than would otherwise be available at SH. all this, before we consider the lack of overall talent, lack of sellable stars and impending major changes at HC and QB after the season.

    i do agree that STHs are very important b/c w/o them, the onus to sell shifts to the jets, and the marketplace is more easily accessed and agreeable on SH.
    Good post, only think I'll tweak is this:

    StubHub is an exchange, but it's not establishing the "fair market value" for Jets seats. Since the vast majority of seats are bought and used at face value and only a small percentage make it to StubHub at all, StubHub is representative of the 'fair market value' for seats that owners need to get rid of due to other circumstances.

    In a typical week the most StubHub seats I've ever seen for sale has been ~11,000 and most weeks it's ~8,000. In a stadium that seats 82,500, simple math says that StubHub transacts ~10% of the seats in the place.

    So if my Mezz A corner section seats 200 fans, 180 of those fans will be loyal PSL owners attending the game at face value $125. Just because 20 fans were able to steal a few seats for $60 doesn't mean that that's the 'value' of the seats.

    SAR I

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobr68 View Post
    With Stub Hub making tickets so readily available, it takes the burden off of non-psl holders to just cherry pick their games. I bet a lot of UD'ers will drop their tickets and just do that. We even see people on this board who can sell their psl seats for a profit and then go to the games they want. The Jets are risking that the UD becomes more and more empty unless they do something. I bet they do one (or more) of the following:
    1) lower ticket prices in the UD again
    2) Tarp off some areas in the endzone
    3) start making primes and sidelines below row 15 into psl's.
    The upper deck seats aren't the problem. It's the UD endzones that are.

    Every other modern NFL stadium built in the last decade has had no upper deck endzones. Patriots, Cardinals, Cowboys, Texans, Colts, you can go down the list and they all have food courts or big windows where the UD endzone seats used to be. The Jets and Giants decided to be bullish, put real seats up there, make the only completely round new arena in the NFL because of the Super Bowl and the assumption that concerts and such could make those work.

    Personally, I don't think the Jets ever wanted those seats, probably had to agree to it because the Giants knew they could blackmail fans into PSL'ing them.

    The StubHub bargain-basement applies to the worst seats in the house anyway, the good locations command a decent price- depending, of course, on how good the Jets are.

    SAR I

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Band View Post
    and then we`ll see the blackouts take place and fans STILL won`t run to the games. You would think a blackout threat would be a good thing for the Jets to do. More fans will probably boycott the Jets and they`ll never be seen on tv playing/losing at home. LOL

    Glad to see you realize what is likely to happen. I think you should get out there with signs wrapped around your neck pushing for people to become PSL owners. You and Grayson can stand around the streets of Manhattan, each taking a corner and rotating.
    Even in very bad years, the Jets sold 76,000 seats every single year from 1984 to 2009.

    Do not confuse "no shows" with "unsold seats". There is zero evidence that there is some big PSL exodus or some groundswell of thousands of fans defaulting on their PSL obligations. The April invoices haven't even been mailed out yet.

    Irony: You're the first person to cry "the media is out to get us!" when it comes to Rex Ryan, but the minute the media stirs up some nonsense about PSL collapses you scream "the media has it right!"

    It's things like this that make you my second-favorite poster on Jets Insider. Never change.

    SAR I

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    I obviously have no sympathy for the Jets when it comes to the endless lists of mistakes they have made regarding this stadium. But I'm also hard-pressed to have any sympathy for the defaulting fans either. I just don't understand how they didn't understand the financial obligation they were entering into. This was post collapse of the sub prime bubble and the complete tanking of the economy. I'm absolutely dumbfounded by some of these comments.
    The storyline here isn't "woe are the Jets fans who are asked to pay their PSL commitments".

    The storyline here is "disloyal Jets fans looking for an easy-out when times get rough".

    When the Jets were in back-to-back AFCCG's, the upper deckers renewed their season ticket invoices, no issues at all. As soon as we went 8-8, boom, thousands took off. "Woe the poor Jets fans!" "Oh, the views are sooooo bad!" Yeah, really bad when you thought we might get to the Super Bowl.

    Now that the Jets are clearly in a 3 year rebuild, some PSL owners are talking smack about defaulting on loans and commitments, going to sit it out and buy cheap tickets online. "Woe the poor Jets fans!"

    The circumstances vary by individual, but no one spending that type of coin went into this that naively. They just don't want to see a bad Jets team. They're front runners. They're looking for an escape. It's pathetic.

    But....again......we're talking about 200 fans out of a stadium that holds 82,500. Will make a lot of noise in a few newspaper articles, but nothing more. They'll get sued. Their credit ratings will get destroyed. You can't walk away from your 2011 Jetta because they changed the bodystyle and you don't like it anymore. You see your commitments through.

    SAR I

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    The upper deck seats aren't the problem. It's the UD endzones that are.

    Every other modern NFL stadium built in the last decade has had no upper deck endzones. Patriots, Cardinals, Cowboys, Texans, Colts, you can go down the list and they all have food courts or big windows where the UD endzone seats used to be. The Jets and Giants decided to be bullish, put real seats up there, make the only completely round new arena in the NFL because of the Super Bowl and the assumption that concerts and such could make those work.

    Personally, I don't think the Jets ever wanted those seats, probably had to agree to it because the Giants knew they could blackmail fans into PSL'ing them.
    The StubHub bargain-basement applies to the worst seats in the house anyway, the good locations command a decent price- depending, of course, on how good the Jets are.

    SAR I
    I'm guessing they did. The Jets themselves were fooled by their long years of sellouts and waiting list. I think they figured that they wouldn't have a problem selling out even at 82k. Once the economy tanked, they realized that they priced too aggressively and tried to fix it. But, I don't think they fully realized that the demand for tickets would be as soft as it is.

    Its a combination of things....the new stadium nose bleeds are simply much worse than GS nose bleeds. That, in combination with HD TV just makes it so unattractive to sit up there. I think people gave the stadium a year or two audition and just decided that they didn't like it. With no PSL, they had that option. The lowest price seat is now only $50. That's absolutely nothing (that's less than a mediocre seat at Citifield!) and they still can't fully sell those tickets. People simply don't want to sit up there.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by crasherino View Post
    I'm guessing they did. The Jets themselves were fooled by their long years of sellouts and waiting list. I think they figured that they wouldn't have a problem selling out even at 82k. Once the economy tanked, they realized that they priced too aggressively and tried to fix it. But, I don't think they fully realized that the demand for tickets would be as soft as it is.

    Its a combination of things....the new stadium nose bleeds are simply much worse than GS nose bleeds. That, in combination with HD TV just makes it so unattractive to sit up there. I think people gave the stadium a year or two audition and just decided that they didn't like it. With no PSL, they had that option. The lowest price seat is now only $50. That's absolutely nothing (that's less than a mediocre seat at Citifield!) and they still can't fully sell those tickets. People simply don't want to sit up there.

    Free beer for the second qtr and the UD seats become a precious commodity.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    Sadly, the Jets and Giants are going to get a lot of this. Neither did credit or income verification checks before agreeing to lend a lot of money. Heck, I initially financed $46,000 minus down payments and they didn't ask my age, work status, income level, credit history... nothing! Not unlike mortgages given out during the Bush years. How the Jets did this was the epitome of fiscal irresponsibility.. but I shudder to think how many PSL buyers would have been declined by the financing entities behind the Jets. It is beyond me how those entities that financed the stadium for the jets and Giants allowed the teamss to lend money without doing credit/income verifications. The Giants will have way fewer defaults, notwithstanding the extra 23,000 PSLs in the upper deck, because its fan base is older and more established. The Jets, on the other hand, were desperate to fill this stadium so agreed to lend money to anyone who was willing to sign on the dotted line.

    In the end, they have no business not expecting a massive number of defaults. It's entirely their own fault. I have no sympathy for them.
    The Giants did not offer financing. If you were interested in it they said they could get you in contact with Wachovia bank. Otherwise it was four installments all completed and paid in full by December 2009.

    The Jets did not use their bank they offered their own financing at 6 or 8% interest which I thought was crazy since you can finance through a bank for much less. My guess Woody saw a chance to take in extra income. Y offering financing on his own to the Jets

    Now some people not all. It some view this as the housing market. Their PSL is under water and they can't resell so they want to foreclose

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    If you bought a PSL with the thought of winning or losing money you couldn't afford it to begin with.
    problem was i could afford it and i dont care about the loss at this point and time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    Neither do I. Go ahead and continue your little charade since it seems to float your boat so much. Your unwillingness to provide any shred of evidence translates into an inability to do so. Gee, I wonder why?
    charade? for what? to prove to negative fans on a jets board that i own 4 psls...........its actually not something to really brag about.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    Option 4: Sell the PSL
    You can not even think about selling it unless its fully paid off.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    I obviously have no sympathy for the Jets when it comes to the endless lists of mistakes they have made regarding this stadium. But I'm also hard-pressed to have any sympathy for the defaulting fans either. I just don't understand how they didn't understand the financial obligation they were entering into. This was post collapse of the sub prime bubble and the complete tanking of the economy. I'm absolutely dumbfounded by some of these comments.
    One day you have a job, the next day you don't. People fall on hard times. Not everyone has steady work and merely striving to pay your bills become a priority over Jets tickets, a luxury that some were able to afford yesterday and can't today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGF0723 View Post
    One day you have a job, the next day you don't. People fall on hard times. Not everyone has steady work and merely striving to pay your bills become a priority over Jets tickets, a luxury that some were able to afford yesterday and can't today.
    That's tough, I'm sorry to hear that. But your original comments sounded a lot more irresponsible than unlucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGF0723 View Post
    Honestly, I feel I jumped the gun and rode the AFC Championship wave into buying PSL's, not thinking about the financial burden it has put on me.

  14. #134
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    LMAO

    Good luck with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    The other way to look at it:

    The 2013 season is a banner year for visiting teams:

    Pittsburgh
    Oakland
    New Orleans
    Miami
    New England

    The seats that he is considering should be worth 2x or more for those games. If he buys the PSL's at a discount, sells the entire season on StubHub, he should do very well, make enough incremental to help pay down that PSL markedly, then start attending games in 2014.

    The math on my seats, so we can see a percentage is this (face value for 4 seats is $500):

    Pittsburgh: $1500
    Oakland: $1000
    New Orleans: $800
    Miami: $1000
    New England: $1000
    Buffalo: $500
    Cleveland: $500
    Tampa Bay: $600

    Total spent: $4,000
    Total intake: $6,900

    Preseason loss: (-$500)

    Net income; +$2,400

    A plus of $2,400 on a spend of $5,000 is an increase of 48%, so if he applies that to more expensive seats, there's the potential of this season producing $5,000 or more if going the StubHub route.

    SAR I

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Even in very bad years, the Jets sold 76,000 seats every single year from 1984 to 2009.

    Do not confuse "no shows" with "unsold seats". There is zero evidence that there is some big PSL exodus or some groundswell of thousands of fans defaulting on their PSL obligations. The April invoices haven't even been mailed out yet.

    Irony: You're the first person to cry "the media is out to get us!" when it comes to Rex Ryan, but the minute the media stirs up some nonsense about PSL collapses you scream "the media has it right!"

    It's things like this that make you my second-favorite poster on Jets Insider. Never change.

    SAR I
    how much were Jets tickets back in those days? A far cry from what they are charging today, minus the PSL costs. You can`t even be serious with that comment.

    I have NEVER confused no-shows and un-sold. I was a sth from 1984 to 2010. I had never said there was an exodus taking place, but, as we can see, thousands have jumped ship, including all of my buds. We aren`t the only ones who jumped off the losing bandwagon. Granted, most if not all have been from the upper deck. The only reason why that is, is because PSL owners still haven`t paid in full yet. I`m certain once they are paid in full, they will sell if they can, even at a loss, just to get out. Otherwise they will just walk away if they can`t sell. Remember, Jets fans are a cheap bunch. One of the main reasons people became Jets fans was because they were cheap tickets for a very long time. They were the last team to impose pre-season games on their fans. They were the NFL`s cheapest tickets for a time there too until Fatso Giant Quitter took over. He actually ruined this franchise. LOL

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOTROD View Post
    Good luck with that.
    I'll report back my selling prices throughout the season. Based on past selling prices, I'm confident I'll get what I project.

    Jets fans are cheap. Visiting fans are wealthy.

    SAR I

  17. #137
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    The Band how much were Jets tickets back in those days? A far cry from what they are charging today, minus the PSL costs. You can`t even be serious with that comment.

    Jets tickets averaged $75 in 2000 and hit $110 by 2009. Hardly much different than today's prices accounting for inflation and live sports increases in the NY metro area. The last 10 seasons of Giants Stadium, sold out, no blackouts, no nothing.

    thousands have jumped ship, including all of my buds. We aren`t the only ones who jumped off the losing bandwagon. Granted, most if not all have been from the upper deck.

    Yeah, they took away that cushy scam they had going, great seats, selling half the tickets for 2x face value, going to the other half for free. They didn't go for the PSL, ran away to the upper deck because it was cheap, stuck around through the promising AFC Championship Game seasons, bailed like disloyal bastards as soon as we went 8-8, patted themselves on the back here at 6-10.

    Great fans they are. We're quite lucky they were exterminated after years of abuse.

    The only reason why that is, is because PSL owners still haven`t paid in full yet. I`m certain once they are paid in full, they will sell if they can, even at a loss, just to get out.

    Wrong. Your mistake is that you think that there are tons of people holding PSL's. When you take out upper deck seats and Club seats, you're left with only 14,000 PSL owners at an average of 3 seats per subscription. There are a lot more than 14,000 loyal Jets fans who a) have money, b) are loyal to the team through thick and thin, and c) weren't dumb enough to make a 30 year commitment as an impulse-buy.

    The subset of actual PSL owning families is very small. We're not talking about 82,500 people. We're only talking about 14,000 people. In a city of 8 million people, that's nothing.

    Remember, Jets fans are a cheap bunch. One of the main reasons people became Jets fans was because they were cheap tickets for a very long time. They were the last team to impose pre-season games on their fans. They were the NFL`s cheapest tickets for a time there too.

    ...and this is why we say good riddance to the old time, farting, burping, brown-bagging, blue-collar Jets fan. You've been replaced. It only took 14,000 white-collar fans to do it, not hard. And let me tell you something- a completely empty upper deck for 2013 wouldn't be an embarrassment; it would be a Godsend. I pray for it every day.

    You think the ticket prices are crazy expensive. They're not.

    You think that there are 80,000 PSL owners out there. There aren't.

    You think that there is some major PSL exodus occurring. There isn't.

    SAR I
    Last edited by SAR I; 02-13-2013 at 08:35 PM.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Remember, Jets fans are a cheap bunch. One of the main reasons people became Jets fans was because they were cheap tickets for a very long time. They were the last team to impose pre-season games on their fans. They were the NFL`s cheapest tickets for a time there too. [/B]
    SAR I
    the team hasnt won a damn thing since 1969 and fans are supposed to want to pay psls, pay for pre-season, and exhuberant prices for season tickets?

    jets tickets should be one of the cheapest in the nfl until they win something.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    The Band how much were Jets tickets back in those days? A far cry from what they are charging today, minus the PSL costs. You can`t even be serious with that comment.

    Jets tickets averaged $75 in 2000 and hit $110 by 2009. Hardly much different than today's prices accounting for inflation and live sports increases in the NY metro area. The last 10 seasons of Giants Stadium, sold out, no blackouts, no nothing.

    thousands have jumped ship, including all of my buds. We aren`t the only ones who jumped off the losing bandwagon. Granted, most if not all have been from the upper deck.

    Yeah, they took away that cushy scam they had going, great seats, selling half the tickets for 2x face value, going to the other half for free. They didn't go for the PSL, ran away to the upper deck because it was cheap, stuck around through the promising AFC Championship Game seasons, bailed like disloyal bastards as soon as we went 8-8, patted themselves on the back here at 6-10.

    Great fans they are. We're quite lucky they were exterminated after years of abuse.

    The only reason why that is, is because PSL owners still haven`t paid in full yet. I`m certain once they are paid in full, they will sell if they can, even at a loss, just to get out.

    Wrong. Your mistake is that you think that there are tons of people holding PSL's. When you take out upper deck seats and Club seats, you're left with only 14,000 PSL owners at an average of 3 seats per subscription. There are a lot more than 14,000 loyal Jets fans who a) have money, b) are loyal to the team through thick and thin, and c) weren't dumb enough to make a 30 year commitment as an impulse-buy.

    The subset of actual PSL owning families is very small. We're not talking about 82,500 people. We're only talking about 14,000 people. In a city of 8 million people, that's nothing.

    Remember, Jets fans are a cheap bunch. One of the main reasons people became Jets fans was because they were cheap tickets for a very long time. They were the last team to impose pre-season games on their fans. They were the NFL`s cheapest tickets for a time there too.

    ...and this is why we say good riddance to the old time, farting, burping, brown-bagging, blue-collar Jets fan. You've been replaced. It only took 14,000 white-collar fans to do it, not hard. And let me tell you something- a completely empty upper deck for 2013 wouldn't be an embarrassment; it would be a Godsend. I pray for it every day.

    You think the ticket prices are crazy expensive. They're not.

    You think that there are 80,000 PSL owners out there. There aren't.

    You think that there is some major PSL exodus occurring. There isn't.

    SAR I
    Just wondering where did you get your information for the average ticket prices in 2000 and 2009?

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    the team hasnt won a damn thing since 1969 and fans are supposed to want to pay psls, pay for pre-season, and exhuberant prices for season tickets?

    jets tickets should be one of the cheapest in the nfl until they win something.
    It doesn't work that way.

    The Jets play in the biggest market in America, and even with the Giants sharing the territory have millions of dedicated fans, more fans than 20+ other NFL teams easily.

    Ticket prices are holding steady, only $20 more than they were in 2000 adjusted for inflation, and that's in a brand new building. The average, affordable PSL is only $8 atop that. Chump change. Not big money.

    It's less per year than the typical blue-collar fan spends on cigarettes, beer, and taking care of the dog, by a factor of 10. The minute they give up the smokes, quit drinking, and shoot the dog is the minute they can lecture us on what 14,000 diehard Jets fans do with their fun money.

    SAR I

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