Reply With Quoteor just use your pets' names.Originally Posted by Alkrotraz
you are correct. The Giants provided no financing. Fans had to take out loans via other methods to pay for their PSLs if they were not willing to front the PSL money. Forgot about that. Goes to show you the level of desperation for the Jets to get people to buy PSLs vs. the Giants.
Also, you don't need a law degree to know that anyone can lend money and charge interest provided it does not violate usury laws. Completely legal and enforceable.
or just use your pets' names.
Good post, only think I'll tweak is this:
StubHub is an exchange, but it's not establishing the "fair market value" for Jets seats. Since the vast majority of seats are bought and used at face value and only a small percentage make it to StubHub at all, StubHub is representative of the 'fair market value' for seats that owners need to get rid of due to other circumstances.
In a typical week the most StubHub seats I've ever seen for sale has been ~11,000 and most weeks it's ~8,000. In a stadium that seats 82,500, simple math says that StubHub transacts ~10% of the seats in the place.
So if my Mezz A corner section seats 200 fans, 180 of those fans will be loyal PSL owners attending the game at face value $125. Just because 20 fans were able to steal a few seats for $60 doesn't mean that that's the 'value' of the seats.
SAR I
The upper deck seats aren't the problem. It's the UD endzones that are.
Every other modern NFL stadium built in the last decade has had no upper deck endzones. Patriots, Cardinals, Cowboys, Texans, Colts, you can go down the list and they all have food courts or big windows where the UD endzone seats used to be. The Jets and Giants decided to be bullish, put real seats up there, make the only completely round new arena in the NFL because of the Super Bowl and the assumption that concerts and such could make those work.
Personally, I don't think the Jets ever wanted those seats, probably had to agree to it because the Giants knew they could blackmail fans into PSL'ing them.
The StubHub bargain-basement applies to the worst seats in the house anyway, the good locations command a decent price- depending, of course, on how good the Jets are.
SAR I
Even in very bad years, the Jets sold 76,000 seats every single year from 1984 to 2009.
Do not confuse "no shows" with "unsold seats". There is zero evidence that there is some big PSL exodus or some groundswell of thousands of fans defaulting on their PSL obligations. The April invoices haven't even been mailed out yet.
Irony: You're the first person to cry "the media is out to get us!" when it comes to Rex Ryan, but the minute the media stirs up some nonsense about PSL collapses you scream "the media has it right!"
It's things like this that make you my second-favorite poster on Jets Insider. Never change.
SAR I
The storyline here isn't "woe are the Jets fans who are asked to pay their PSL commitments".
The storyline here is "disloyal Jets fans looking for an easy-out when times get rough".
When the Jets were in back-to-back AFCCG's, the upper deckers renewed their season ticket invoices, no issues at all. As soon as we went 8-8, boom, thousands took off. "Woe the poor Jets fans!" "Oh, the views are sooooo bad!" Yeah, really bad when you thought we might get to the Super Bowl.
Now that the Jets are clearly in a 3 year rebuild, some PSL owners are talking smack about defaulting on loans and commitments, going to sit it out and buy cheap tickets online. "Woe the poor Jets fans!"
The circumstances vary by individual, but no one spending that type of coin went into this that naively. They just don't want to see a bad Jets team. They're front runners. They're looking for an escape. It's pathetic.
But....again......we're talking about 200 fans out of a stadium that holds 82,500. Will make a lot of noise in a few newspaper articles, but nothing more. They'll get sued. Their credit ratings will get destroyed. You can't walk away from your 2011 Jetta because they changed the bodystyle and you don't like it anymore. You see your commitments through.
SAR I
I'm guessing they did. The Jets themselves were fooled by their long years of sellouts and waiting list. I think they figured that they wouldn't have a problem selling out even at 82k. Once the economy tanked, they realized that they priced too aggressively and tried to fix it. But, I don't think they fully realized that the demand for tickets would be as soft as it is.
Its a combination of things....the new stadium nose bleeds are simply much worse than GS nose bleeds. That, in combination with HD TV just makes it so unattractive to sit up there. I think people gave the stadium a year or two audition and just decided that they didn't like it. With no PSL, they had that option. The lowest price seat is now only $50. That's absolutely nothing (that's less than a mediocre seat at Citifield!) and they still can't fully sell those tickets. People simply don't want to sit up there.
Free beer for the second qtr and the UD seats become a precious commodity.
The Giants did not offer financing. If you were interested in it they said they could get you in contact with Wachovia bank. Otherwise it was four installments all completed and paid in full by December 2009.
The Jets did not use their bank they offered their own financing at 6 or 8% interest which I thought was crazy since you can finance through a bank for much less. My guess Woody saw a chance to take in extra income. Y offering financing on his own to the Jets
Now some people not all. It some view this as the housing market. Their PSL is under water and they can't resell so they want to foreclose
problem was i could afford it and i dont care about the loss at this point and time.
charade? for what? to prove to negative fans on a jets board that i own 4 psls...........its actually not something to really brag about.Neither do I. Go ahead and continue your little charade since it seems to float your boat so much. Your unwillingness to provide any shred of evidence translates into an inability to do so. Gee, I wonder why?
You can not even think about selling it unless its fully paid off.
One day you have a job, the next day you don't. People fall on hard times. Not everyone has steady work and merely striving to pay your bills become a priority over Jets tickets, a luxury that some were able to afford yesterday and can't today.
That's tough, I'm sorry to hear that. But your original comments sounded a lot more irresponsible than unlucky.
Good luck with that.
how much were Jets tickets back in those days? A far cry from what they are charging today, minus the PSL costs. You can`t even be serious with that comment.
I have NEVER confused no-shows and un-sold. I was a sth from 1984 to 2010. I had never said there was an exodus taking place, but, as we can see, thousands have jumped ship, including all of my buds. We aren`t the only ones who jumped off the losing bandwagon. Granted, most if not all have been from the upper deck. The only reason why that is, is because PSL owners still haven`t paid in full yet. I`m certain once they are paid in full, they will sell if they can, even at a loss, just to get out. Otherwise they will just walk away if they can`t sell. Remember, Jets fans are a cheap bunch. One of the main reasons people became Jets fans was because they were cheap tickets for a very long time. They were the last team to impose pre-season games on their fans. They were the NFL`s cheapest tickets for a time there too until Fatso Giant Quitter took over. He actually ruined this franchise. LOL
I'll report back my selling prices throughout the season. Based on past selling prices, I'm confident I'll get what I project.
Jets fans are cheap. Visiting fans are wealthy.
SAR I
The Band how much were Jets tickets back in those days? A far cry from what they are charging today, minus the PSL costs. You can`t even be serious with that comment.
Jets tickets averaged $75 in 2000 and hit $110 by 2009. Hardly much different than today's prices accounting for inflation and live sports increases in the NY metro area. The last 10 seasons of Giants Stadium, sold out, no blackouts, no nothing.
thousands have jumped ship, including all of my buds. We aren`t the only ones who jumped off the losing bandwagon. Granted, most if not all have been from the upper deck.
Yeah, they took away that cushy scam they had going, great seats, selling half the tickets for 2x face value, going to the other half for free. They didn't go for the PSL, ran away to the upper deck because it was cheap, stuck around through the promising AFC Championship Game seasons, bailed like disloyal bastards as soon as we went 8-8, patted themselves on the back here at 6-10.
Great fans they are. We're quite lucky they were exterminated after years of abuse.
The only reason why that is, is because PSL owners still haven`t paid in full yet. I`m certain once they are paid in full, they will sell if they can, even at a loss, just to get out.
Wrong. Your mistake is that you think that there are tons of people holding PSL's. When you take out upper deck seats and Club seats, you're left with only 14,000 PSL owners at an average of 3 seats per subscription. There are a lot more than 14,000 loyal Jets fans who a) have money, b) are loyal to the team through thick and thin, and c) weren't dumb enough to make a 30 year commitment as an impulse-buy.
The subset of actual PSL owning families is very small. We're not talking about 82,500 people. We're only talking about 14,000 people. In a city of 8 million people, that's nothing.
Remember, Jets fans are a cheap bunch. One of the main reasons people became Jets fans was because they were cheap tickets for a very long time. They were the last team to impose pre-season games on their fans. They were the NFL`s cheapest tickets for a time there too.
...and this is why we say good riddance to the old time, farting, burping, brown-bagging, blue-collar Jets fan. You've been replaced. It only took 14,000 white-collar fans to do it, not hard. And let me tell you something- a completely empty upper deck for 2013 wouldn't be an embarrassment; it would be a Godsend. I pray for it every day.
You think the ticket prices are crazy expensive. They're not.
You think that there are 80,000 PSL owners out there. There aren't.
You think that there is some major PSL exodus occurring. There isn't.
SAR I
Last edited by SAR I; 02-13-2013 at 08:35 PM.
the team hasnt won a damn thing since 1969 and fans are supposed to want to pay psls, pay for pre-season, and exhuberant prices for season tickets?
jets tickets should be one of the cheapest in the nfl until they win something.
Just wondering where did you get your information for the average ticket prices in 2000 and 2009?
It doesn't work that way.
The Jets play in the biggest market in America, and even with the Giants sharing the territory have millions of dedicated fans, more fans than 20+ other NFL teams easily.
Ticket prices are holding steady, only $20 more than they were in 2000 adjusted for inflation, and that's in a brand new building. The average, affordable PSL is only $8 atop that. Chump change. Not big money.
It's less per year than the typical blue-collar fan spends on cigarettes, beer, and taking care of the dog, by a factor of 10. The minute they give up the smokes, quit drinking, and shoot the dog is the minute they can lecture us on what 14,000 diehard Jets fans do with their fun money.
SAR I
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