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Thread: Can you continue to pay psl just not renew tickets

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Did you take mathematics in elementary school? Here, let me explain it to you.

    82,500 Seats
    -12,500 Club Seats
    -27,000 Upper Deck Seats
    ----------
    =43,000 PSL Seats

    43,000 divided by 3 Seats Per Average Owner = 14,333 PSL Owners

    Savvy?

    SAR I
    only in your mind it is. You have NO PROOF. Show a link to this like you cry to others to do. You`re simply guessing, and imo hoping. Regardless of what you may think, I still won`t believe you because you have shown us all here your hypocritical views on everything. Just pack it in. No one really cares what you think anyway. Even those burping farting puking white trash rich people you always complain about at your seats and your parking spot. Next time get an orange parking pass and park where real people park. You know, those blue collar fans. The ones who wait in line to use the porta-potty to urinate and deficate in, unlike those who urinate on your car all the time.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Band View Post
    only in your mind it is. You have NO PROOF. Show a link to this like you cry to others to do. You`re simply guessing, and imo hoping. Regardless of what you may think, I still won`t believe you because you have shown us all here your hypocritical views on everything. Just pack it in. No one really cares what you think anyway. Even those burping farting puking white trash rich people you always complain about at your seats and your parking spot. Next time get an orange parking pass and park where real people park. You know, those blue collar fans. The ones who wait in line to use the porta-potty to urinate and deficate in, unlike those who urinate on your car all the time.


    The information came from the Jets back in 2010. The average number of seats per PSL owner was 3, rounded down from 3.1. Go search for it yourself, not sure why you find it hard to believe. Fans buy 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, or 2 seats. For every fan that buys 1 seat, there are fans that buy 5. 4's and 2's are the most popular by far.

    43,000 PSL Seats 3 Seats Per Buyer = 14,333 PSL Owners

    So this "Waa, waa, waa.....80 THOUSAND angry PSL Owner REVOLUTION!" you think is going to happen ain't happening. In a city of 8 million with another 3 million in the outlying areas, all it takes for PSL nirvana are 14,333 measly Jets fans who can afford a paltry $8-$15 a game.

    Since you have an issue wrapping your brain around this, see above for a helpful representation. If you forced every PSL owner to sit in the upper deck (eew) and pose for a picture, it would fill up what you see in bright green.

    This is why there is no PSL uprising. We are a small group of diehard fans with money who weren't stupid enough to realize that we're in this for the 30 year long-haul and we're going to have bad seasons 60% of the time like every other NFL franchise over that span.

    Follow your own advice on this issue: "Stop believing the evil media! They are out to get the Jets! Don't trust them! They are spinning to make a story! They just want to sell newspapers!" LOL

    SAR I

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    That's funny, was going to submit the same facts as you when I saw his post, then I figured why bother. Idgiots, I think I said that earlier though.
    It's hysterical, really is.

    All this noise about unhappy PSL owners. Huh?

    It's the typical 1-2% who historically have to leave the Jets family because of job, health, or relocation, been going on since 1965. And the only news articles so far that have appeared anywhere are from the NY Post and a nobody author who trolled Jets Insider for a quote, and all he got was someone in my section who said "well, I'm not giving up my PSL's, but I wonder what will happen if someone does".

    Such a news story! 215 fans who historically will turn over and 1 fan who gave a shady quote. It's PSL Armageddon!

    SAR I

  4. #164
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    sar i have you checked e-bay and craigslist lately?

    there are numerous psls for sale on the open market. my ticket broker told me today he fully expects the market to be flooded with psls and game day tickets being sold by the jets organization for all those who default on paying psls.................imagine that............few you say....more than you say i say...............

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    sar i have you checked e-bay and craigslist lately?

    there are numerous psls for sale on the open market. my ticket broker told me today he fully expects the market to be flooded with psls and game day tickets being sold by the jets organization for all those who default on paying psls.................imagine that............few you say....more than you say i say...............
    We are 1 month out from season ticket invoices going in the mail with a team that is in turmoil and headed for a 3-13 type season. Here are the Jets PSL's for sale by location:

    29 PSL's for sale on eBay

    24 PSL's for sale on Craigslist

    463 PSL's for sale on stadium-psl

    315 PSL's for sale on seasonticketsrights

    36 PSL's fop sale on psl-source

    In glancing at the listings, there are tons of duplications, stands to reason that someone looking to sell their PSL's will list on every site that's popular.

    Totaled up, including the duplications, that's 867 licenses for sale. On a base of 14,333 PSL owners, that's 6% of all PSL's being offered for sale if we took each listing verbatim, as if there were no duplicate listings.

    De-dupe those licenses that are on multiple sites, say that number comes down a very conservative 30%, that's 607 PSL's or 4%.

    Again, respectfully, not trying to be an I-told-you-so or rub anyone's face in it, but facts are facts:

    We are 1 month out from season ticket invoices going in the mail with a team that is in turmoil and headed for a 3-13 type season. In looking at factual listings on the most popular places anyone would go to sell their PSL's, only 4% of all PSL owners are considering selling their licenses.

    In any typical year in Giants Stadium from 1984-2009, the Jets saw turnover in season ticket holdership at a 1-2% level due to health, financial issues, and relocation.

    Can all this foolish talk stop now? I mean, it's fun and all, like shooting fish in a barrel at this point, but I'm headed out on vacation and it's getting a bit tiresome.

    Thanks.

    SAR I

  6. #166
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    Interesting... after reading SARS post, I looked at two of the sites he mentioned with the highest amount of psl's for sale, stadium-psl and season ticket rights to check out the amount of Giants psl's for sale.

    Unless I am reading it wrong, it pretty clearly states the following amounts of psl's for sale. ( not tickets but actual psl's)

    Stadium-psl - 137 (totals seats not given and didn't feel like adding.)

    seasonticketrights - 631 (1697 seats)

    So...

    Jets - 778

    Giants - 768
    Last edited by crossfire; 02-14-2013 at 11:17 PM.

  7. #167
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    This thread is steering well off point into old, re-hashed, irrelevance.

    The number of PSLs for sale isn't the news. The news is what sellers today are asking for them.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    This thread is steering well off point into old, re-hashed, irrelevance.

    The number of PSLs for sale isn't the news. The news is what sellers today are asking for them.
    Amen to that. The big news is what they are selling for. I saw one lising where the PSLs actually sold for under $1k each.

    The big issue with PSLs for the Jets and Giants vs other stadiums is other stadiums give you rights with those seats for every event in the stadium. If you knew that you can gave the same lower level seats not only for football but for Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, U2 etc it would be a big plus.

    Sure they give you a presale code but as an upper decker I get codes and I also get codes from Live Nation, American Express, etc the same day as the rest of the presales so they really didn't give that perk.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    This thread is steering well off point into old, re-hashed, irrelevance.

    The number of PSLs for sale isn't the news. The news is what sellers today are asking for them.
    No. The news is that there is no news.

    Just a few hundred fans hitting hard times. Unfortunate, but it happens. Just as it always has for the last 30 years. Desperation on 600 licenses doesn't set the market price for the other 15,800 because they're simply not for sale. The fans who bought them in 2010 intend to keep them until 2040.

    What you are seeing is the variability in a PSL aftermarket that exists only because of a select few in an unfortunate situation. If you want to talk about the aftermarket on gameday tickets, different story, that's the variability from the quality of the team itself. As for the PSL's, what you are measuring now is how much advantage you can take of the unfortunate, nothing more.

    And, by the way, that 14,333 estimate of total PSL owners does not include Club seats. That 600 estimate of total PSLs for sale right now on all those sites has scores of Club seats in it.

    This is a massive non-story.

    SAR I

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets337 View Post
    Amen to that. The big news is what they are selling for. I saw one lising where the PSLs actually sold for under $1k each.

    The big issue with PSLs for the Jets and Giants vs other stadiums is other stadiums give you rights with those seats for every event in the stadium. If you knew that you can gave the same lower level seats not only for football but for Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, U2 etc it would be a big plus.

    Sure they give you a presale code but as an upper decker I get codes and I also get codes from Live Nation, American Express, etc the same day as the rest of the presales so they really didn't give that perk.
    the idea that NFL PSL holders get "rights" to those very same seats for concerts, papal visits or whatever else goes on in the stadium is the biggest myth floating around out there. This issue was discussed to death in earlier PSL threads and the results of the research were that no other NFL stadium gives PSL holders the rights to those same seats for other events. The lone exception at the time was Chicago Soldier Field Club Seats only. PSL holders basically get a right of 1st refusal for other events, just like at Met Life.

  11. #171
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    seasonticketrights -1697 PSLs for sale


    Does not sound like a lot, but remember 43,000 PSLs in total. Not all sold, also we have sponsor seats, NFL seats, etc on top of unsold seats.

    Also remember people planning on walking away are not selling. You need to have a fully paid off PSL in order to sell it.

    27K seats in UD might be an even bigger issue. Only 7K of those seats are good. The other 20K you cant really see game and it much cheaper to buy in secondary.

    My rows/section was sold out in first go around, guy to right of me and behind me have seats for sale. I know them and both have them paid off.

    Both want at least 90% of face value or they will just sell the season.

    But folks with huge balances left at 8% cant just sell season without losing money each season.

  12. #172
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    SAR, PSLs should depreciate anyhow at 3% a year.

    So by year four PSLs selling for 9% less is not news. It is fact some seats depreciated much greater is the news story. Good seats have not really depreciated at all but that is not a news story.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossfire View Post
    Interesting... after reading SARS post, I looked at two of the sites he mentioned with the highest amount of psl's for sale, stadium-psl and season ticket rights to check out the amount of Giants psl's for sale.

    Unless I am reading it wrong, it pretty clearly states the following amounts of psl's for sale. ( not tickets but actual psl's)

    Stadium-psl - 137 (totals seats not given and didn't feel like adding.)

    seasonticketrights - 631 (1697 seats)

    So...

    Jets - 778

    Giants - 768
    the SARS thread mysteriously dissappeared.........

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkrotraz View Post
    SAR, PSLs should depreciate anyhow at 3% a year.

    So by year four PSLs selling for 9% less is not news. It is fact some seats depreciated much greater is the news story. Good seats have not really depreciated at all but that is not a news story.
    That is categoric BS. ANY immediate depreciation of a PSLs 3 years into an asset with a 40 year shelf life is absolutely news. This isn't a new car. Any statement that this was an expectation is revisionist history.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    No. The news is that there is no news.

    Just a few hundred fans hitting hard times. Unfortunate, but it happens. Just as it always has for the last 30 years. Desperation on 600 licenses doesn't set the market price for the other 15,800 because they're simply not for sale. The fans who bought them in 2010 intend to keep them until 2040.

    What you are seeing is the variability in a PSL aftermarket that exists only because of a select few in an unfortunate situation. If you want to talk about the aftermarket on gameday tickets, different story, that's the variability from the quality of the team itself. As for the PSL's, what you are measuring now is how much advantage you can take of the unfortunate, nothing more.

    And, by the way, that 14,333 estimate of total PSL owners does not include Club seats. That 600 estimate of total PSLs for sale right now on all those sites has scores of Club seats in it.

    This is a massive non-story.

    SAR I
    Mr Market doesn't recognize if holder of an asset is hitting hard times. The news is valid.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    29 PSL's for sale on eBay

    24 PSL's for sale on Craigslist

    463 PSL's for sale on stadium-psl

    315 PSL's for sale on seasonticketsrights

    36 PSL's fop sale on psl-source

    SAR I
    well, x3 on average, that is over 2600 seats fans want to dump just from what you say. That doesn`t include the 15,000 upper deck seats no one wants every year, the unsold club seats, the seats that never sold and the % you say dump each year. Plus the ones you are not counting that will default or are sold through other means(news ads, other avenues). I can easily see over 20,000 seats being dumped/sold/thrown away. However you want to look at it. That was NEVER the case in the old stadium. The #`s may be off some as well. It might be more than 20,000. Maybe 25,000. Like I`ve always said, there are no more than maybe 40,000 Jets fans willing to go to every game. Even those fans won`t go to every game, including you. 82,000 seat stadium for a Jets game is just too much. The Jets need a 65-70,000 seat stadium for there to be any sort of "demand" for tickets, otherwise you get what you have now. Good to decent seats will always sell. First row seats in any section will always sell. I know, I use to have first row upper end zone in the old stadium and they were awesome seats for watching the game and for selling. You can keep arguing that everything in Jetsland is hunky dorey but we all know deep down it ain`t. The stadium is dull now. The parking is segregated, as well as the stadium, determined by financial status. Woody got what he wanted and it is failing for him. Fans are simply buying games on a game to game basis. There are nowhere near the STH`s there used to be. Actually it`s probably half the amount. I`m happy for you that you think that is great. The old stadium was much better. The games were more fun even when they sucked ass. You can keep telling yourself it`s great but it`s a major fail for the Jets. It will not get better either. If you are a true Jets fan, then you already know most of the real fans have jumped ship and just attend 2-3 games a season. No one has a true # on how many actual PSLs were sold. No one knows how many seats the Jets still hold. No one knows how many of these seats being sold on the internet are owned by the Jets. We don`t know and we just speculate. You have no facts, I have no facts, no one but Woody and his cronies know the actual truth. But simply by looking up what is available, it doesn`t look all that great for the Jets. This whole new Giants Stadium thing is a failure for the Jets. EXACTLY what the Giants wanted. 44 years and counting. Soon to be 45, than 46 and so on. Enjoy your time as a STH. It may only be for the 30 years you signed up for with nothing to show like I have for the 27 I was signed up for.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    Mr Market doesn't recognize if holder of an asset is hitting hard times. The news is valid.
    The fact that 600 fans have listed their seats is newsworthy, actually.

    Shows that the PSL process worked. A small fraction of the 14,333 fans are attempting to sell their licenses, in sync with the past 30 years.

    SAR I

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies View Post
    That is categoric BS. ANY immediate depreciation of a PSLs 3 years into an asset with a 40 year shelf life is absolutely news. This isn't a new car. Any statement that this was an expectation is revisionist history.
    Alko has a point there TJ. It's a 30 year shelf life and the Jets are 3 years in.

    When inflation becomes significant it'll offset the short-term dip. My expectation was that there would be a settling-in period, seeing how the entire fanbase got an enema, everyone moved up or out. What we are seeing now was expected too- fans die, fans lose their jobs, fans relocate. Every team, every year, a few hundred fans leave. Nothing surprising here.

    SAR I

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Alko has a point there TJ. It's a 30 year shelf life and the Jets are 3 years in.

    When inflation becomes significant it'll offset the short-term dip. My expectation was that there would be a settling-in period, seeing how the entire fanbase got an enema, everyone moved up or out. What we are seeing now was expected too- fans die, fans lose their jobs, fans relocate. Every team, every year, a few hundred fans leave. Nothing surprising here.

    SAR I
    It's 40 years and no other teams PSLs have experienced this type of pricing aftershock. The reason is because the PSLs were drastically overpriced. What we have now is a market correction. Again saying that was expected is absurd. If it were expected, not many would have purchased PSLs in the original offering.

  20. #180
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    Wow!!! Just saw 2 in Row 5 on the aisle in 134 next to 135 LLSL reduced to $13,500 on Season Ticket Rights.com

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