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Thread: Was the lack of competition at QB Rex's fault?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    I'm not going to pretend like I knew a lot about Walt Michaels, but Eric Mangini?! That's nuts.

    Would you rather have a guy that plays to win or a guy who plays not to lose. Because playing not to lose is EXACTLY what Eric mangini was all about. That and late season collapses.

    So although I don't see where you could claim Mangini had more character and honor than Rex Ryan, you could probably make a case for that. This is all opinion.

    But you would also never have a good team under Eric Mangini. He was a Marty Schottenheimer waiting in the wings. A guy who coaches so conservatively he basically handcuffs his own team. I think that shows that he didn't trust his own team.

    Prime example was the NE game is 2008. Mangini's Jets were kicking the sh*t out of the Patsies in Fagsboro to the tune of 24-6. So what does Mangini do? He starts playing that prevent defense midway through the 2nd quarter for crying out loud. The, the Patsies came back and tied it and pushed the game into OT needlessly. The Jets could have bled them out by half way through the 3rd quarter if they had continued to play aggressively.
    BTW, Marty was a very good coach.
    Much better than Rex

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Pure BS and not the way the NFL or any pro-league works.

    The point of TC is to get your units playing as a unit and filling roster spots. Occassionally a top young player steps up and so stands out they take a job.

    This is pro football and you don't develop chemistry and team unity by having a QB competition unless you don't have a QB who the coaching staff believes in.


    The Jets organization believed in Sanchez and rightfully played him. The belief might have been misguided but that's not about competition that's about the organization's poor evaluation skills including the HC who was all in on the drafting of Sanchez.

    Teams holding auditions at QB are not good teams.
    The ONLY way you develop team chemistry and team unity is by promoting the BEST players to starting jobs. You know because they are so talented, moreso than there veteran counterparts, they provide more opportunites for the team to build chemistry and unity?

    And I'll agree that teams holding QB auditions are not good teams. But how does that help out the rest of the team by just going with the guy with the big name?! All that does is build criticism from other players. It builds a cancerous lockerroom. Then, all the players start thinking is HOW do I kiss enough A$$ so that I will become a starter and get the big bucks.

    You know like when many players speaking on condition of anonymity called out Sanchez for never having been pushed in a QB competition and EARNING his job. Especially when all of those other players had to compete to keep their jobs?

    That is not how ANY well run organization runs a team.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    BTW, Marty was a very good coach.
    Much better than Rex
    Oh, he was? What did Marty Schottenheimer do in his first 4 seasons as HC?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    I'm not so sure anymore. Tanny's interview on Fatty's show was very eye opening for me.

    He took full responsibility for the teams woes and said he was the guy with final say on all players.

    Mark Sanchez was never challenged in his career and IMO it has been part of the reason for a toxic lockerroom like so many fans have claimed.

    Rex Ryan is also the kind of guy where if you were looking for answers to those kinds of questions you would never get an answer. Rex Ryan has some very good qualities. One of his best is his ability to always go TEAM. He never throws his players under the bus. Mark Sanchez was absolutely terrible last season. But you'd never know it if you were relying on Rex Ryan to tell things like they are. That is Rex Ryan protecting his players and shouldering the blame.

    Those are rare qualities found in a HC. Besides Bill Parcells, I wonder if any other HC the Jets ever employed had as much character and honor.

    My feeling is that this season is going to in stark contrast to Rex's first 4 seasons in NY. There will be straight up competition at almost every position on the field. I believe that will bring out the best in everyone and certainly end the lockerrom toxicity if there ever was any.
    Character I'll give you. Honor - no-way . Parcells would throw his grandma down the steps if it helped make him look good. A pure ego-maniac if I ever saw one.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    Character I'll give you. Honor - no-way . Parcells would throw his grandma down the steps if it helped make him look good. A pure ego-maniac if I ever saw one.
    Well, I didn't create this thread to agrue the virtues of Bill Parcells. I was making a point that good HC's do not grow on trees. They are good HC's because they exhibit qualities that other HC's do not have.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Oh, he was? What did Marty Schottenheimer do in his first 4 seasons as HC?
    In his first 4 full seasons with the Browns, Marty went 40-23, 3 division titles and 2 playoff wins.

    Wrecks went 34-30 and hasn't even come close to even winning a division title in all 4 years.

    Very poor comparison there MJ.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Well, I didn't create this thread to agrue the virtues of Bill Parcells. I was making a point that good HC's do not grow on trees. They are good HC's because they exhibit qualities that other HC's do not have.
    Good Hc's should be involved in all aspects of the game. Rex had a clear mindset about how he felt an O should be run, but he never took the time to put his offensive players in the best schemes for them like he did religously with the D.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    In his first 4 full seasons with the Browns, Marty went 40-23, 3 division titles and 2 playoff wins.

    Wrecks went 34-30 and hasn't even come close to even winning a division title in all 4 years.

    Very poor comparison there MJ.
    Who gives a sh*t about division titles when you take your team to the AFC Championship two seasons in a row? Playoff results matter MUCH more than any stupid title does. Especially when you consider your beloved Patsies were the division title holders one season that the Jets went into Fagsboro and b*tch slapped the Patsies in the those very playoffs.

  9. #29
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    People who don't think Rex had a major voice in roster decisions are kidding themselves. Tannenbaum's roster decision making process changed dramatically after Rex became the head coach, and I find it very hard to believe it's simply a coincidence.

    In Rex's second season, he named Mark Brunell a "lock for the #2 spot" within the first week of his signing. Rex was never interested in a legitimate challenge for Sanchez for the first few years.

  10. #30
    So you had to listen to Tanny speak in an interview to figure out he was the one making the GM decisions? Almost as dumb as the notion that a 5th overall pick rookie QB needs to be 'challenged' and that 's the purpose of training camp.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    Good Hc's should be involved in all aspects of the game. Rex had a clear mindset about how he felt an O should be run, but he never took the time to put his offensive players in the best schemes for them like he did religously with the D.
    Rex inherited Schotty and his offensive philosophies. He was told point blank, if you want to be the HC of the NYJ, you take Schotty as your OC. Not saying Rex doesn't leave something to be desired when it comes to offense, you can. It's an area where Rex really leaves himself to be criticized.

    So I'll give you that Tony Sparano is probably Rex's fault, but Schotty wasn't.

  12. #32
    Both Tanny and Rex were equally at fault for having no alternative at QB. I've never seen a player out right coddled more than Mark Sanchez before and in the end it hurt him more than helped.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Rex inherited Schotty and his offensive philosophies. He was told point blank, if you want to be the HC of the NYJ, you take Schotty as your OC. Not saying Rex doesn't leave something to be desired when it comes to offense, you can. It's an area where Rex really leaves himself to be criticized.

    So I'll give you that Tony Sparano is probably Rex's fault, but Schotty wasn't.
    OH really. Point blank, huh? So you were there?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    People who don't think Rex had a major voice in roster decisions are kidding themselves. Tannenbaum's roster decision making process changed dramatically after Rex became the head coach, and I find it very hard to believe it's simply a coincidence.

    In Rex's second season, he named Mark Brunell a "lock for the #2 spot" within the first week of his signing. Rex was never interested in a legitimate challenge for Sanchez for the first few years.
    Its not hard to truly realize that in Rex's G&P offense there was never a need for a passing QB. His system isn't about throwing the ball its about running the clock and winning on D. He could have brought in Joe Namath as the backup it didn't really matter.

    Sanchez is getting the full blame for a true deriliction of duty by our HC. He never allowed our QB or offense to be anything other than his G&P vision.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Rex inherited Schotty and his offensive philosophies. He was told point blank, if you want to be the HC of the NYJ, you take Schotty as your OC. Not saying Rex doesn't leave something to be desired when it comes to offense, you can. It's an area where Rex really leaves himself to be criticized.

    So I'll give you that Tony Sparano is probably Rex's fault, but Schotty wasn't.
    Rex liked Shotty and said so many times and could have fired him or had him fired whenever he wished. It was shown by the fact that Rex was the only man standing after this year that he had more pull than any one else on the team.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece View Post
    So you had to listen to Tanny speak in an interview to figure out he was the one making the GM decisions? Almost as dumb as the notion that a 5th overall pick rookie QB needs to be 'challenged' and that 's the purpose of training camp.
    Yeah, actually I did because of so many dingbats like you saying Rex had control of the FO and he needs to be fired.

    And for your information genius, EVERY draft pick, 5th overall or 199th overall are CRAP SHOOTS, especially QB's.

    Boy, what a great team we'd have right now if Vinny Testaverde's niece were running the show.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Who gives a sh*t about division titles when you take your team to the AFC Championship two seasons in a row? Playoff results matter MUCH more than any stupid title does.
    Division titles show a consistent, well-coached superior team over a long 16-game schedule. Wrecks hasn't figured that out yet.

    And keep in mind, if the Colts and Bengals don't sit all their starters in '09, the Jets finish 7-9 and completely miss the playoffs.

    So yea, keep hoping Wrecks can continue to pull out his lucky rabbit foot, hoping 6 or 7 teams lose in week 17, just so he can back into the 6th playoff seed.

    To think Wrecks did more his first 4 years than Marty, is just assinine.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    People who don't think Rex had a major voice in roster decisions are kidding themselves. Tannenbaum's roster decision making process changed dramatically after Rex became the head coach, and I find it very hard to believe it's simply a coincidence.

    In Rex's second season, he named Mark Brunell a "lock for the #2 spot" within the first week of his signing. Rex was never interested in a legitimate challenge for Sanchez for the first few years.
    Oh, so I guess Mike Tannenbaum was just lying to everyone when he said he had final player say? And how did Tanny's roster decision making change when Rex arrived? Can you explain that to me?

    Not saying the GM doesn't consider what the HC thinks when making player decisions. Far from it. But Mike Tannenbaum was the guy that got fired for bad player moves, NOT Rex. And you making it sound like Rex operated with autonomy is completely ridiculous.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Rex inherited Schotty and his offensive philosophies. He was told point blank, if you want to be the HC of the NYJ, you take Schotty as your OC. Not saying Rex doesn't leave something to be desired when it comes to offense, you can. It's an area where Rex really leaves himself to be criticized.

    So I'll give you that Tony Sparano is probably Rex's fault, but Schotty wasn't.
    Even if Shotty was forced on him , it was Rex's vision and ultimate say on the offensive gameplan , I guarantee G&P was not Shotty's baby.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Division titles show a consistent, well-coached superior team over a long 16-game schedule. Wrecks hasn't figured that out yet.

    And keep in mind, if the Colts and Bengals don't sit all their starters in '09, the Jets finish 7-9 and completely miss the playoffs.

    So yea, keep hoping Wrecks can continue to pull out his lucky rabbit foot, hoping 6 or 7 teams lose in week 17, just so he can back into the 6th playoff seed.

    To think Wrecks did more his first 4 years than Marty, is just assinine.
    If you're referring to CONSISTENCY and how important it is to a HC, then I agree with you. I never claimed Rex Ryan was god or even BB, but he's also in his first tenure as a HC. How did BB fare in his first HCing stint? I just think he's a damn good HC and the best HC the Jets could hope to have going forward. WAY better than Mangini will ever be. If you give Rex the talent he WILL get the most out of it. he's already shown that.

    And no it is not assinine to think Rex did more than Marty is his first HCing stint. The results speak for themselves even if you are blind to them.

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