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Thread: A Revis Stays offseason

  1. #1
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    A Revis Stays offseason

    I won't say this one is perfect

    The Jets have 2.5mill in carryover- which i carry over again for use during in season pick ups and the practice squad. so no effect on my calcualtions

    1. The usual cuts which brings the money allocated to 107 mill or 14 in cap room
    2. Revis signs a 6 year 80 mill contract to begin on the start of the new league year. No money is exchanged until then, This is treated as an extension so no cap hit in 2013. In response to getting the contract early, before suiting up, he forgoes the 3 mill in roster and workout bonuses in 2013. now 17 mill in cap room.
    3. Cro converts 6mill of salary and 2.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB and extends 3 years at 8 mill per, in 2015 he gets a 6mill bonus SB guaranteed. this gives the jets another 6 mill in room so now you have 23 mill in space.
    4 Mangold converts 3.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB for 2.5 in space the jets now have 25.5 mill in cap space.

    Rookie pool allocation 6.5 mill now leaves 19 mill

    Re-signs
    1. tag Howard 1.8mill
    2. sign Braylon 2.0 mill
    3. sign Folk 1.5 mill
    4 Sign B Moore 2.0 mill A total of 7.5 mil leaving 11.5 mill for FA

    signed FA

    Matt Moore signs a 3 year 10 mill contract with another 10 in incentives, with the first year salary of 3mill guaranteed. and 2 mill of the 2nd year guranteed.

    1. Moore 3 mill
    2. SS Wilson 1.5
    3. Erin Henderson 2.5 mill
    4 Delanie Walker 4 mill
    total 11 mill leaving 1/2 mill

    The drafted player positions order taken +/- 2 spots from
    http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html and trade values taken from the "chart"
    As everyone has different values it make no sense to just place somebody at some random point.

    jets trade # 9 and 110 to St Louis (Eric Fisher) for #22, 46, 78

    #22- Ziggy Ansah Rush LB
    39- Kevin Minter ILB
    46- Eddie Lacy RB
    72- kyle Long OT/OG
    76- Tony Jefferson FS
    155- Connor Vernon WR
    190- Mike Catapano Rush LB
    225 - Corey Fuller WR

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I won't say this one is perfect

    The Jets have 2.5mill in carryover- which i carry over again for use during in season pick ups and the practice squad. so no effect on my calcualtions

    1. The usual cuts which brings the money allocated to 107 mill or 14 in cap room
    2. Revis signs a 6 year 80 mill contract to begin on the start of the new league year. No money is exchanged until then, This is treated as an extension so no cap hit in 2013. In response to getting the contract early, before suiting up, he forgoes the 3 mill in roster and workout bonuses in 2013. now 17 mill in cap room.
    3. Cro converts 6mill of salary and 2.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB and extends 3 years at 8 mill per, in 2015 he gets a 6mill bonus SB guaranteed. this gives the jets another 6 mill in room so now you have 23 mill in space.
    4 Mangold converts 3.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB for 2.5 in space the jets now have 25.5 mill in cap space.

    Rookie pool allocation 6.5 mill now leaves 19 mill

    Re-signs
    1. tag Howard 1.8mill
    2. sign Braylon 2.0 mill
    3. sign Folk 1.5 mill
    4 Sign B Moore 2.0 mill A total of 7.5 mil leaving 11.5 mill for FA

    signed FA

    Matt Moore signs a 3 year 10 mill contract with another 10 in incentives, with the first year salary of 3mill guaranteed. and 2 mill of the 2nd year guranteed.

    1. Moore 3 mill
    2. SS Wilson 1.5
    3. Erin Henderson 2.5 mill
    4 Delanie Walker 4 mill
    total 11 mill leaving 1/2 mill

    The drafted player positions order taken +/- 2 spots from
    http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html and trade values taken from the "chart"
    As everyone has different values it make no sense to just place somebody at some random point.

    jets trade # 9 and 110 to St Louis (Eric Fisher) for #22, 46, 78

    #22- Ziggy Ansah Rush LB
    39- Kevin Minter ILB
    46- Eddie Lacy RB
    72- kyle Long OT/OG
    76- Tony Jefferson FS
    155- Connor Vernon WR
    190- Mike Catapano Rush LB
    225 - Corey Fuller WR
    Interesting. I like it

  3. #3
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    Sign me up.

    I'm all about Delanie Walker. He and Cumberland are not the best combo in the league, but it's a lot better than what the Jets have had.

    Moore is the right guy to come and compete for the starting job.

    I don't really know much about most of the guys at the bottom of the draft, but the top 4 picks are just about a dream scenario. I'd still like to draft a QB, perhaps instead of Minter, depending on who's there. And drafting him seems unnecessary with the Henderson signing... that said, I think Minter is a beast, would be a great fit in any scheme and I'd love for the Jets pick him.

    The pick swap is realistic and pretty similar to what I've mentioned in the past (trade with Chicago #20) I really hope it happens.

  4. #4
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    Nitpicking but...

    Overpaying Edwards.

    Why sign Folk when we can replace him with a 7th round pick much cheaper (Hopkins FSU

    Signing Matt Moore for 3 years is not a good idea. If we bring him in at all, it shouldn't be more than a 1 year try out. This may be sensible if you see him as the back up going forward but I would prefer Flynn.

    I also don't think we resign Moore. We are rebuilding, no sense of keeping aging vets around.

    I think your FAs are optimistic. I like Walker and would be thrilled.

    I do like the draft though but with that our offense will be terrible again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcola View Post
    Nitpicking but...

    Overpaying Edwards.

    Why sign Folk when we can replace him with a 7th round pick much cheaper (Hopkins FSU

    Signing Matt Moore for 3 years is not a good idea. If we bring him in at all, it shouldn't be more than a 1 year try out. This may be sensible if you see him as the back up going forward but I would prefer Flynn.

    I also don't think we resign Moore. We are rebuilding, no sense of keeping aging vets around.

    I think your FAs are optimistic. I like Walker and would be thrilled.

    I do like the draft though but with that our offense will be terrible again.
    Signing Matt Moore at those numbers is fine with me, even if he's a backup. He's not making a ton of money and is a good #2 option if someone steps up and wins the starting job ahead of him... and that's really a 2 year deal because he can be cut after year 2.

    It's a very low-risk move IMO.

    I prefer Flynn over Moore, too. But he isn't a UFA, so signing him is not an option. He's entering year 2 of a 3 year $19.5M deal with $10 guaranteed. Their situations are apples and oranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcola View Post
    Nitpicking but...

    Overpaying Edwards.

    Why sign Folk when we can replace him with a 7th round pick much cheaper (Hopkins FSU

    Signing Matt Moore for 3 years is not a good idea. If we bring him in at all, it shouldn't be more than a 1 year try out. This may be sensible if you see him as the back up going forward but I would prefer Flynn.

    I also don't think we resign Moore. We are rebuilding, no sense of keeping aging vets around.

    I think your FAs are optimistic. I like Walker and would be thrilled.

    I do like the draft though but with that our offense will be terrible again.
    What do you mean overpaying Edwards? 2 mill, I guarantee you he will be a Patriot at that rate of pay. He played 3 games with no issues with his knee. you want to spend 650,000 on a wr, keep Schillens.

    What do you think this is the only landing spot for Moore? Once Smith is signed he is the best vet out there, great sign him one year, he starts has a completion % of 62% and goes 24 TDs and 12int. (projection from 2011 numbers over 16 games) What do you think it is going to cost you to resign him then, I bet it will be close to 4 years 36 mill.

    Walker I think will get a 4 year 22 mill deal the 1st year cap hit of 4mill.

    Well who do you want to replace moore, do you want the new qb to get killled, I have one rookie Long starting at LG.

    You want flynn, his cap hit is 5 mill next year and 6.5 next that is 2 mill less for FA and giving up at least a 4th rd pick value.

    Folk is a professional kicker, you want to put a rookie kicker out there. I remember your kicker keeping you out of the playoffs a few years ago in Pitt. For what to save 900,000 and again use another draft pick?
    Last edited by patman; 02-17-2013 at 02:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Sign me up.

    I'm all about Delanie Walker. He and Cumberland are not the best combo in the league, but it's a lot better than what the Jets have had.

    Moore is the right guy to come and compete for the starting job.

    I don't really know much about most of the guys at the bottom of the draft, but the top 4 picks are just about a dream scenario. I'd still like to draft a QB, perhaps instead of Minter, depending on who's there. And drafting him seems unnecessary with the Henderson signing... that said, I think Minter is a beast, would be a great fit in any scheme and I'd love for the Jets pick him.

    The pick swap is realistic and pretty similar to what I've mentioned in the past (trade with Chicago #20) I really hope it happens.
    Henderson can play all 4 LB postions. You got Harris who has to IMO get off the field in passing downs, Then you have Ansah on one side, Davis the other backer, how is henderson redundant?

    Chicago has the need for a tackle, but they already traded away their 3rd
    so if they made the trade that would be it for Chicago 2013 draft. St Louis
    has the same need and the extra picks to get the job done and still pick at #16 so the trade works both ways.

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    My problem is I doubt you're getting minter in the second, although its possible, but we're definitely not getting lacy in the third, otherwise, not of shabby

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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Henderson can play all 4 LB postions. You got Harris who has to IMO get off the field in passing downs, Then you have Ansah on one side, Davis the other backer, how is henderson redundant?

    Chicago has the need for a tackle, but they already traded away their 3rd
    so if they made the trade that would be it for Chicago 2013 draft. St Louis
    has the same need and the extra picks to get the job done and still pick at #16 so the trade works both ways.
    In this situation, I see Ansah, Harris, Davis, McIntrye starting, with Henderson as the 1st guy off the bench (or swap him and Davis if you want) but in this situation, there is nowhere for Minter to play unless he takes someone's job and then that guy has nowhere to play.

    And I think you overrate Henderson's ability to play OLB in a 3-4. He is not a skilled pass rusher and is probably a little small to hold up on the edge. I see him as more of a chase and tackle LB than a stack and shed guy. He won't beat out McIntrye, who is a decent and cheap 3-4 OLB. So, there is no need to have 4 ILBs like this IMO, which is exactly what Harris, Davis, Henderson and Minter are in a 3-4.

    If they plan to play more 4-3 this year, there is even less incentive to sign a ILB then draft another, especially in the 2nd round.

  10. #10
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    I really like this plan actually. I'd think Sanchez could probably convert some base salary into signing bonus too no? Also I'm not sure about FS here. Move Wilson to FS? If not I'd like to target a player like Rambo. I like lacy but ball/Taylor will be good as well. Perhaps warford in the 2nd and Taylor in the 3rd. Or ball in the 2nd and Rambo in the 3rd

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    I actually really like this. Good job putting this together.

    Seems realistic, and does a good job of addressing needs within a fairly tight budget.

    Love the new Revis deal projection, and think you resign the right guys and add some nice pieces in FA. Moore would be a nice pickup, though I think the scarce supply of QBs in FA may push his price higher than your projection. Also agree that Braylon is a bit overpaid - the last 2 times he hit FA he didn't get $2M a year and he was coming off more productive seasons then.

    Love the Walker signing at TE, and a fan of Wilson at SS too. My only real issue with the draft is no young QB is added. I can see the Jets going QB on the 2nd day with someone like Glennon, Wilson or Manuel.

    But, overall, really good job. I would be very happy if our offseason played out like this.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I won't say this one is perfect

    The Jets have 2.5mill in carryover- which i carry over again for use during in season pick ups and the practice squad. so no effect on my calcualtions

    1. The usual cuts which brings the money allocated to 107 mill or 14 in cap room
    2. Revis signs a 6 year 80 mill contract to begin on the start of the new league year. No money is exchanged until then, This is treated as an extension so no cap hit in 2013. In response to getting the contract early, before suiting up, he forgoes the 3 mill in roster and workout bonuses in 2013. now 17 mill in cap room.
    3. Cro converts 6mill of salary and 2.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB and extends 3 years at 8 mill per, in 2015 he gets a 6mill bonus SB guaranteed. this gives the jets another 6 mill in room so now you have 23 mill in space.
    4 Mangold converts 3.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB for 2.5 in space the jets now have 25.5 mill in cap space.

    Rookie pool allocation 6.5 mill now leaves 19 mill

    Re-signs
    1. tag Howard 1.8mill
    2. sign Braylon 2.0 mill
    3. sign Folk 1.5 mill
    4 Sign B Moore 2.0 mill A total of 7.5 mil leaving 11.5 mill for FA

    signed FA

    Matt Moore signs a 3 year 10 mill contract with another 10 in incentives, with the first year salary of 3mill guaranteed. and 2 mill of the 2nd year guranteed.

    1. Moore 3 mill
    2. SS Wilson 1.5
    3. Erin Henderson 2.5 mill
    4 Delanie Walker 4 mill
    total 11 mill leaving 1/2 mill

    The drafted player positions order taken +/- 2 spots from
    http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html and trade values taken from the "chart"
    As everyone has different values it make no sense to just place somebody at some random point.

    jets trade # 9 and 110 to St Louis (Eric Fisher) for #22, 46, 78

    #22- Ziggy Ansah Rush LB
    39- Kevin Minter ILB
    46- Eddie Lacy RB
    72- kyle Long OT/OG
    76- Tony Jefferson FS
    155- Connor Vernon WR
    190- Mike Catapano Rush LB
    225 - Corey Fuller WR
    I was just getting to the point where i could say i am cool with a Pats fan and then this. Listen you, there is no deal where Revis remains a Jet. Especially when it's made by someone who would love to see us further sabotage our Salary Cap.

    Furthermore, there's no way Ziggy Ansah will make it to 10 farless 22. This is how the Pats draft, so go help them screw up their next draft. We are trading Revis for a 1st rounder. We're taking Ziggy at 9 and the best available OG with the pick we get for Revis. That's the Plan pal, so read it understand it love it and then get upset when these players help us take over the AFC East in 2 yrs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I won't say this one is perfect

    The Jets have 2.5mill in carryover- which i carry over again for use during in season pick ups and the practice squad. so no effect on my calcualtions

    1. The usual cuts which brings the money allocated to 107 mill or 14 in cap room
    2. Revis signs a 6 year 80 mill contract to begin on the start of the new league year. No money is exchanged until then, This is treated as an extension so no cap hit in 2013. In response to getting the contract early, before suiting up, he forgoes the 3 mill in roster and workout bonuses in 2013. now 17 mill in cap room.
    3. Cro converts 6mill of salary and 2.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB and extends 3 years at 8 mill per, in 2015 he gets a 6mill bonus SB guaranteed. this gives the jets another 6 mill in room so now you have 23 mill in space.
    4 Mangold converts 3.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB for 2.5 in space the jets now have 25.5 mill in cap space.

    Rookie pool allocation 6.5 mill now leaves 19 mill

    Re-signs
    1. tag Howard 1.8mill
    2. sign Braylon 2.0 mill
    3. sign Folk 1.5 mill
    4 Sign B Moore 2.0 mill A total of 7.5 mil leaving 11.5 mill for FA

    signed FA

    Matt Moore signs a 3 year 10 mill contract with another 10 in incentives, with the first year salary of 3mill guaranteed. and 2 mill of the 2nd year guranteed.

    1. Moore 3 mill
    2. SS Wilson 1.5
    3. Erin Henderson 2.5 mill
    4 Delanie Walker 4 mill
    total 11 mill leaving 1/2 mill

    The drafted player positions order taken +/- 2 spots from
    http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html and trade values taken from the "chart"
    As everyone has different values it make no sense to just place somebody at some random point.

    jets trade # 9 and 110 to St Louis (Eric Fisher) for #22, 46, 78

    #22- Ziggy Ansah Rush LB
    39- Kevin Minter ILB
    46- Eddie Lacy RB
    72- kyle Long OT/OG
    76- Tony Jefferson FS
    155- Connor Vernon WR
    190- Mike Catapano Rush LB
    225 - Corey Fuller WR
    Good Job...You're hired!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I won't say this one is perfect

    The Jets have 2.5mill in carryover- which i carry over again for use during in season pick ups and the practice squad. so no effect on my calcualtions...
    You, sir, are a mad scientist. I like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    In this situation, I see Ansah, Harris, Davis, McIntyre starting, with Henderson as the 1st guy off the bench (or swap him and Davis if you want) but in this situation, there is nowhere for Minter to play unless he takes someone's job and then that guy has nowhere to play.

    And I think you overrate Henderson's ability to play OLB in a 3-4. He is not a skilled pass rusher and is probably a little small to hold up on the edge. I see him as more of a chase and tackle LB than a stack and shed guy. He won't beat out McIntrye, who is a decent and cheap 3-4 OLB. So, there is no need to have 4 ILBs like this IMO, which is exactly what Harris, Davis, Henderson and Minter are in a 3-4.

    If they plan to play more 4-3 this year, there is even less incentive to sign a ILB then draft another, especially in the 2nd round.
    My thinking is this. Harris sucks in passing downs period and IMO his speed to the edge is not what it was even 2 years ago. I see 2013 as Harris last year.

    You got 4 lb slots and all 4 of them are playing every snap? henderson Can play every LB position
    Last edited by patman; 02-17-2013 at 07:06 PM.

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    Nice thread patman, why can't the other trolls be more like this guy?

    I don't like Matt Moore, I understand the premise in your plan, but we need to find a better option, I'd rather go for Smith or Hasselback. In Hasselback, we would have a player who has a strong background in the WCO, would be a vet option on the relatively cheap and a good vet to come and compete with Sanchez, if the plan is to retain Sanchez, and still be a player that the Jets can get a year out of if Sanchez fails and they regroup next year.

    I'm still torn on what I'd like to see the Jets do, probably a long shot, but the Foles option would excite me as long as we don't give up more than a 3rd, and maybe a 2nd for him.

    Braylon would be an outstanding re-sign on the cheap. Would really solidify the WR's with Holmes, Hill, and Kerley, allowing the Jets to target RB and TE in the draft. Of course, I could also see the Jets going WR in the first round if they can't move down.

    I'm not big on the Jets bringing back B Moore, I think Jets will target OG in this draft, in the 2nd or 3rd round, and they will have Ducasse play the other spot. They could bring Slauson back, a better option than Moore IMO. I could also see the Jets giving Schlauderaff a shot to compete, a player they've hung on to for depth, but they liked him when Green Bay drafted him 2 years ago.

    Like the Delaney sign, but the Jets would still need a all-around capable TE, unless they feel Cumberland and/or Hayden Smith would be more prepared to take on a bigger role next year.

    I'm a big Bell and/or Taylor fan, and would love to see Jets go after either player in 2nd round.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    I was just getting to the point where i could say i am cool with a Pats fan and then this. Listen you, there is no deal where Revis remains a Jet. Especially when it's made by someone who would love to see us further sabotage our Salary Cap.

    Furthermore, there's no way Ziggy Ansah will make it to 10 farless 22. This is how the Pats draft, so go help them screw up their next draft. We are trading Revis for a 1st rounder. We're taking Ziggy at 9 and the best available OG with the pick we get for Revis. That's the Plan pal, so read it understand it love it and then get upset when these players help us take over the AFC East in 2 yrs.
    First
    1. what team out there has 15 mill of cap room to sign Revis?
    2. Which one of those teams value corner that high (Cinci would not pay Joseph 8 mill)
    3. Which one of those team will give a #1 to the jets before Revis is even ready to do drills, not even with a uniform on just drills. he will be working in the pool in April.
    4. you confusing the market for Revis as a FA with the market for him as a injured player coming off an ACL, in a trade with a team asking for a #1.

    I laid out a scenario where the jets saved 3mill in cap room by signing Revis.
    I allocated QB money to Revis, as the jets don't have a qb in the future that will get paid 12 mill a year. even if Moore does not work out and you draft a guy in the top 5 next year he only makes less than 5mill per for the first 4 years. Your trading Revis, before he can work out, a trade thatrequires the jets to take a a 9mill cap hit this year, so instead of saving 3 your spending an additional 6 to trade him. All this while expecting a team to give you a #1 for the right to see him rehab. And you have to replace him, and this year without Landry and without Cro having a career year.

    Now to your other points, What did Ziggy do to get him at #9? He had a great senior bowl, but looked to be out of positon as often as in position. I see him going where Chandler Jones and JPP went. Mid 20s.
    Last edited by patman; 02-17-2013 at 07:31 PM.

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    do away with all this ridiculous talk of getting rid of Revis...our burden or our fortune is having a once in a generation player...one who might sit atop the all time Jet heap...they will pay him this summer...the smart move since the deal will include his proving he's back to the best player in football....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    Nice thread patman, why can't the other trolls be more like this guy?

    I don't like Matt Moore, I understand the premise in your plan, but we need to find a better option, I'd rather go for Smith or Hasselback. In Hasselback, we would have a player who has a strong background in the WCO, would be a vet option on the relatively cheap and a good vet to come and compete with Sanchez, if the plan is to retain Sanchez, and still be a player that the Jets can get a year out of if Sanchez fails and they regroup next year.

    I'm still torn on what I'd like to see the Jets do, probably a long shot, but the Foles option would excite me as long as we don't give up more than a 3rd, and maybe a 2nd for him.

    Braylon would be an outstanding re-sign on the cheap. Would really solidify the WR's with Holmes, Hill, and Kerley, allowing the Jets to target RB and TE in the draft. Of course, I could also see the Jets going WR in the first round if they can't move down.

    I'm not big on the Jets bringing back B Moore, I think Jets will target OG in this draft, in the 2nd or 3rd round, and they will have Ducasse play the other spot. They could bring Slauson back, a better option than Moore IMO. I could also see the Jets giving Schlauderaff a shot to compete, a player they've hung on to for depth, but they liked him when Green Bay drafted him 2 years ago.

    Like the Delaney sign, but the Jets would still need a all-around capable TE, unless they feel Cumberland and/or Hayden Smith would be more prepared to take on a bigger role next year.

    I'm a big Bell and/or Taylor fan, and would love to see Jets go after either player in 2nd round.

    First with the jets losing 17 contributors there was no way I could replace them all.

    I like Moore better than Slauson, i see mangold double Slauson's guy a lot more than I see him double moores guy.

    Smith will be too expensive, guys on this site want to talk about him in his first 4 years and Sanchez in his first 2. You go by the last 2 years and the guy should have gone to the SB last year in Ginn did not get hurt. I think he has KC written all over him. I don't think HASSELbeck wants to move again. He is getting paid what the jets can afford to hold a clipboard. If the jets were a SB contender needing a qb, that would be different.

    The Eagles spent a 3rd on Foles last year and he "proved" that he is not a bust at least, The eagles might let him go but i coud not in good concience
    develop a scenario where they took only a 3rd back. And with the jets needing players, I rather take a 3rd rd player in the draft and use Moore.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    First
    1. what team out there has 15 mill of cap room to sign Revis?
    2. Which one of those teams value corner that high (Cinci would not pay Joseph 8 mill)
    3. Which one of those team will give a #1 to the jets before Revis is even ready to do drills, not even with a uniform on just drills. he will be working in the pool in April.
    4. you confusing the market for Revis as a FA with the market for him as a injured player coming off an ACL, in a trade with a team asking for a #1.

    I laid out a scenario where the jets saved 3mill in cap room by signing Revis.
    I allocated QB money to Revis, as the jets don't have a qb in the future that will get paid 12 mill a year. even if Moore does not work out and you draft a guy in the top 5 next year he only makes less than 5mill per for the first 4 years. Your trading Revis, before he can work out, a trade thatrequires the jets to take a a 9mill cap hit this year, so instead of saving 3 your spending an additional 6 to trade him. All this while expecting a team to give you a #1 for the right to see him rehab. And you have to replace him, and this year without Landry and without Cro having a career year.

    Now to your other points, What did Ziggy do to get him at #9? He had a great senior bowl, but looked to be out of positon as often as in position. I see him going where Chandler Jones and JPP went. Mid 20s.
    So according to u, a player nobody would give a 1st round pick for is worth 15 mil to us because he is on our team. According to u, Revis the consensus best CB in the league when healthy is not better at 80% than some kid coming into the league from this draft.

    U asked me what was it that Ziggy did to warrant going at 9. I will answer that by asking you what did he do to warrant being mentioned with the likes of Chandler Jones and JPP ? If those doing the drafting knew what those players were going to turn into prior, where do u figure those 2 players would have been drafted ?

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