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Thread: Pace, Eric Smith, Jason Smith, Josh Baker cut

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Pace and Scott 2012 = Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones 2003

    Old, slow and overpaid. McIntrye actually had more sacks than Pace!
    +1

    I'm actually pretty high on McIntyre.

    Don't think he'll ever be a star, but I'm totally cool with him taking over as a starter at one of the OLB spots.

    Guy definitely has a motor on him.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    +1

    I'm actually pretty high on McIntyre.

    Don't think he'll ever be a star, but I'm totally cool with him taking over as a starter at one of the OLB spots.

    Guy definitely has a motor on him.
    Mack is going to be an effective blue collar player for us. That's why I like Rex I think with a different coach McIntrye would be a nothing but Rex lights a fire under him.

  3. #83
    Saddest to see Baker go, apart from the bozo legion that's no longer with us. Too bad he injured his leg last season. Dude was a handy depth TE.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    +1

    I'm actually pretty high on McIntyre.

    Don't think he'll ever be a star, but I'm totally cool with him taking over as a starter at one of the OLB spots.

    Guy definitely has a motor on him.
    McIntyre is no starter either. He can be an adequate backup, but we'd better not go into the season with him starting. He had one good game early on then he missed a lot of tackles, and was blown up consistently. Scott, and Pace are just too old. I don't know why people have to be jerks about it. It's not their fault they were paid too much and for too long. It's not like they didn't hustle, or were out of position. They're just too slow at this point, but they were both good, blue collar players for us, and got us a lot of wins. We need two new starting LBs. We should get one at 9, and hopefully one FA, and maybe one later in the draft.

  5. #85

    Talking

    Can't complain about those cuts. Rebuilding begins. Might take two years but lets get it right this time.

  6. #86
    They'll bring back Josh Baker. He can play ST also.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    What are you getting snooty about? When he played against the pats in the loss, I mainly seen him in motion, either blitzing or dropping back. I didn't remember him getting all those snaps that late in the season and I have have doubts that he did since he has no stat line at all for ARI and Ten and only one tackle at Jacksonville. I would think he would be in a lot more plays taking 70% of the snaps. because if he did he got totally outplayed by Scott who got 11 tackles those two games that he did not get on the stat line.

    And what does bench pressing have to do with fighting thru traffic and keeping players away from your legs. They guy is taking on guards and centers who are much stronger and and out weigh him by 75lbs. I watch all jet games with my son who is a jet fan. (unless conflicted games) I just don't see him as a thumper to handle being run at all day. You do, great. we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable while asking me if I think that two of the best LBs in the league can play just because they are the same size as Davis. they are 75 Ilb/MLB in the league 90% of them 242lb +/- 10lbs only a dozen of them can be compared to Willis, as you chose to do.
    Basing things around his stat-line?.... If you based your analysis of Revis around his stat-line then you'd probably assume he didn't suit up most weeks.

    DD was primarily dropped into coverage or blitzing from the outside.If he's doing a good job in coverage then the QB doesn't look his way....hence no stat line.

    Bart Scott's role in our defence was often to occupy blockers freeing up Harris or Landry to make a play....again no stat-line.But he was damn effective at it...just most armchair observers think if you aren't making double-digit INT',TFL's or sacks you suck....and to be fair when you are earning big money like Bart was,more is needed .This also applies to Calvin Pace incidentally.

    Nobody is saying DD is the new Mike Singletary or Brian Urlacher but he showed enough if you looked closely at the actual game rather than the box score to see there's potential and that he could probably hold down a starting role alongside the thumper that is David Harris.

    Part of our problem the last 2 seasons in my view was having 2 thumpers who played such similar roles.Worked great against the run usually but less effective in 3rd down passing situations.Can't help but think our passing D improved partly because of the addition of DD as the season went on in 2012.

    Can he handle the inside running game the way Scott did?Possibly not as effectively but then a good and creative defensive mastermind will seek to limit that possible weakness with scheming.And if there's one thing we do have it's a defensive mastermind known for creative scheming,but equally looking at his weight and equating that to his ability to hold up in the run defence is bogus.

    It's just as much about having the athleticism to be in the right place as it is having the bulk to take on 300 pounders...I mean what actual difference is there between a 250 pound guy or a 235/240 pounder taking on 300 pounders?It's still a mismatch.

    Strength,technique,anticipation etc are all relevant but harder to pinpoint unless you pay close attention

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Choon328 View Post
    Snooty? I'm being a little snooty b/c all you do is come on this site and throw cold water on anything or any player that has anything to do with the Jets. I could care less if your son is a fan of the team, you're not. So why come here just to constantly go against anything anyone says positive about the Jets? And lets be honest you're not a coach in the NFL/College so you actually have no more knowledge then any other person who sits at home on Sunday and watches games. You have no clue how any player will develop so stop acting like you're an expert. You're act is old. You must be really lonely. Is that snooty enough for you?

    And the point of comparing him to Willis and Bowman was to show that he is big enough to be a 3-4 ILB especially since those 2 are 2 of the best in the league and are of comparable size. I wasn't comparing talent, just size. And that's b/c you made the comment that he was too small and you are wrong obviously.
    This

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by bcess View Post
    He's 250
    He looked thinner than Scott even after Scott lost the weight to gain speed. Maybe somebody that was at camp can chime in.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    What I said was that I did not see him being effective on those designated running downs at 235#. I never said that he can't play. You then said that he played effectively the last 5 games at 70% of the snaps, I just pointed out that i did not see him on the field that much and that the stats backed my observations.

    I don't say that I know more than anyone else on this site, nor do I have a crystal ball. again my statement that i see him more of a fit against the passing game than the running game. I did not say you were wrong, just that I seen it different.

    My point about my son, was that is why I watch a lot of jet games closely.

    I always go against the jets? I don't think so. Just earlier in this thread I agreed with the anti-clayton statement. before that I took exception to a jet fan that mis-quoted espn and acted like the jets being 5 mill under the cap was something to be happy about. My take on things is the same take that many jet fans on this site have, both positive and negative. And you can always put me on ignore. My feelings won't be hurt
    Just throwing a bone every 100 posts to keep your credibility up and so you can quote your 'support' doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

    Talk football by all means and make fair and salient points but the blatant trolling is feeble and gets the contempt it deserves.

    You confuse optimism with homerism(to be fair you are not alone).Seeing the possible positive outcome is not a crime and doesn't make me or you or anyone for that matter, stupid or wrong.I can also understand those who after years feel cynical and can't see the positives.

    A healthy outside perspective is always welcome but it's rare to the point of extinction that I read from fans of other teams anything other than blatant(or sometimes more subtle) attempts to flame and pi$$ on any attempt to be optimistic...so forgive me if I have zero respect for those who's sole purpose is to provoke

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    Basing things around his stat-line?.... If you based your analysis of Revis around his stat-line then you'd probably assume he didn't suit up most weeks.

    DD was primarily dropped into coverage or blitzing from the outside.If he's doing a good job in coverage then the QB doesn't look his way....hence no stat line.

    Bart Scott's role in our defence was often to occupy blockers freeing up Harris or Landry to make a play....again no stat-line.But he was damn effective at it...just most armchair observers think if you aren't making double-digit INT',TFL's or sacks you suck....and to be fair when you are earning big money like Bart was,more is needed .This also applies to Calvin Pace incidentally.

    Nobody is saying DD is the new Mike Singletary or Brian Urlacher but he showed enough if you looked closely at the actual game rather than the box score to see there's potential and that he could probably hold down a starting role alongside the thumper that is David Harris.

    Part of our problem the last 2 seasons in my view was having 2 thumpers who played such similar roles.Worked great against the run usually but less effective in 3rd down passing situations.Can't help but think our passing D improved partly because of the addition of DD as the season went on in 2012.

    Can he handle the inside running game the way Scott did?Possibly not as effectively but then a good and creative defensive mastermind will seek to limit that possible weakness with scheming.And if there's one thing we do have it's a defensive mastermind known for creative scheming,but equally looking at his weight and equating that to his ability to hold up in the run defence is bogus.

    It's just as much about having the athleticism to be in the right place as it is having the bulk to take on 300 pounders...I mean what actual difference is there between a 250 pound guy or a 235/240 pounder taking on 300 pounders?It's still a mismatch.

    Strength,technique,anticipation etc are all relevant but harder to pinpoint unless you pay close attention
    I agree that i thought his focus was in pass defense and blitzing, and i thought that was were it was going to continue to be next year. Choon responded saying that he played 70% of the snaps that game. But very rarely does a LB play 45 downs and does not get a tackle or an assist and this was three games in a row with only 1 tackle, again I did not say that he could not play ILB I just thought that he looked light to play full time against the run. The game that i recall Davis playing significant snaps was against the pats where he had 6 unassisted tackles on the stat line, and played even better than that.

    Yes, I am an amatuer but the pats ran a 3-4 fifty percent of the time since Fairbanks in the 70s. I am aware of the nuances of the scheme. And to your point Scott was often used to take up blockers, allowing harris to roam- again I agree and point to my observation that Davis is more suited to the pass defense and not tying up blockers. I never even infered that the kid can't play, just not play the roll that Scott did full time. And i questioned why Choon believed he could.

    Yes rex can scheme to keep Davis clean, but that entails using your 12mill LB in the roll that Scott played, to me a waste of talent.

    I watch the games very closely and we tape them especially the pats ones
    (I now have the butt fumble for posterity)

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    Just throwing a bone every 100 posts to keep your credibility up and so you can quote your 'support' doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

    Talk football by all means and make fair and salient points but the blatant trolling is feeble and gets the contempt it deserves.

    You confuse optimism with homerism(to be fair you are not alone).Seeing the possible positive outcome is not a crime and doesn't make me or you or anyone for that matter, stupid or wrong.I can also understand those who after years feel cynical and can't see the positives.

    A healthy outside perspective is always welcome but it's rare to the point of extinction that I read from fans of other teams anything other than blatant(or sometimes more subtle) attempts to flame and pi$$ on any attempt to be optimistic...so forgive me if I have zero respect for those who's sole purpose is to provoke
    If I disagree with a point someone is making, I give the reason for my disagreement. you don't see me say LOL, your nuts, Brady's gay or similar responses. I don't flame threads or take them off track. They are jet fans on this site that mirror thesame things that i say, but you infer that becasue the team I follow is not the jets, that somehow when I say it is is trolling.

    Go to the draft forum, where I started a jets off season discussion, and by the way I had the jets pick up Minter for the same reason as this discussion. PM me ifyou want to discuss further so we don't ruin this thread.
    Last edited by patman; 02-20-2013 at 09:10 AM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by FijiJet View Post
    Saddest to see Baker go, apart from the bozo legion that's no longer with us. Too bad he injured his leg last season. Dude was a handy depth TE.
    +1.

    I am surprised by his release because I would think that in the WCO he'd be the prototypical TE or H-Back.

    Perhaps they have big plans for Cumberland, but he's not exactly Kellen Winslow out there.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by 124 View Post
    +1.

    I am surprised by his release because I would think that in the WCO he'd be the prototypical TE or H-Back.

    Perhaps they have big plans for Cumberland, but he's not exactly Kellen Winslow out there.
    Maybe he had a march 1 or start of the league year roster bonus due.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Maybe he had a march 1 or start of the league year roster bonus due.
    Nope. Just a $550,000 contract for 2013.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I agree that i thought his focus was in pass defense and blitzing, and i thought that was were it was going to continue to be next year. Choon responded saying that he played 70% of the snaps that game. But very rarely does a LB play 45 downs and does not get a tackle or an assist and this was three games in a row with only 1 tackle, again I did not say that he could not play ILB I just thought that he looked light to play full time against the run. The game that i recall Davis playing significant snaps was against the pats where he had 6 unassisted tackles on the stat line, and played even better than that.

    Yes, I am an amatuer but the pats ran a 3-4 fifty percent of the time since Fairbanks in the 70s. I am aware of the nuances of the scheme. And to your point Scott was often used to take up blockers, allowing harris to roam- again I agree and point to my observation that Davis is more suited to the pass defense and not tying up blockers. I never even infered that the kid can't play, just not play the roll that Scott did full time. And i questioned why Choon believed he could.

    Yes rex can scheme to keep Davis clean, but that entails using your 12mill LB in the roll that Scott played, to me a waste of talent.

    I watch the games very closely and we tape them especially the pats ones
    (I now have the butt fumble for posterity)
    All fair and reasonable.

    As you say if Davis played better than his stat line against NE suggests, then that confirms the point I was making

    There is no reason to believe he can't replace Scott and do so in a more effective way although I guess that depends on just how great a player you believe Bart was last year.

    If,as many do,you thought Scott sucked then why would it be so hard to replace him?....if you want to go against what seems to be conventional wisdom here and suggests he played very well and we can't live without him I'd be interested to hear more.

    It's worth bearing in mind that just because he's been cut it isn't entirely beyond the realms of possibility that he still suits up for us in 2013.Unlikely but stranger things have happened

    The jury is still out on DD but not every effective 3-4 inside backer is built he same way or possesses the same skill set,so your hunch is no better than my hunch therefor why wouldn't you give us the benefit of the doubt.

    As a Pats fan I expect you hope it fails and that Demario cannot step up,if you said otherwise I'd be highly dubious.Myself and Choon both hope he can and from my side I've seen enough to be cautiously optimistic but also not seen enough to be beyond doubt....but again why not give the benefit of the doubt?

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    If I disagree with a point someone is making, I give the reason for my disagreement. you don't see me say LOL, your nuts, Brady's gay or similar responses. I don't flame threads or take them off track. They are jet fans on this site that mirror thesame things that i say, but you infer that becasue the team I follow is not the jets, that somehow when I say it is is trolling.

    Go to the draft forum, where I started a jets off season discussion, and by the way I had the jets pick up Minter for the same reason as this discussion. PM me ifyou want to discuss further so we don't ruin this thread.
    No need to go elsewhere in my view.We're not polluting a thread with name calling and we're talking Jets so I can't see a problem....hell if this is pollution then the board would be down to about 3 active threads

    In all fairness the vast majority of posts that leave me shaking my head are from Jets fans,which doesn't make me any happier and doesn't make mirroring those views,just because they are there, a legitimate excuse for trolling.

    Fans from other teams,if they genuinely come in peace,need to have a far greater tolerance for those who choose to see things more optimistically.The vast majority of posts I see are provocative nonsense whether that be you or others,there is very little objectivity going on.So there are people on here who have hope that things might go well,of course there are,it's a Jets board.Poking a stick at someone just to get a rise is not big,nor clever.

    If I cared and bothered to go to another teams message board I'd show due respect for those there.probably expect the odd numpty to illustrate that every team has it's idiot that's escaped from the village and ignore while finding the knowledgable posters who had something to offer and add to my understanding.

    Anyway seeing as you're keen to show off your Jet-loving credentials and in a spirit of open and honest dialogue feel free to respond with 10 reasons why you believe the Jets will buck conventional wisdom and contend in 2013

    I'll even help you get started,,

    1)-No Sanchez means no more butt-fumbles

    The floor is yours....
    Last edited by Redlichtie; 02-20-2013 at 10:50 AM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    No need to go elsewhere in my view.We're not polluting a thread with name calling and we're talking Jets so I can't see a problem....hell if this is pollution then the board would be down to about 3 active threads

    In all fairness the vast majority of posts that leave me shaking my head are from Jets fans,which doesn't make me any happier and doesn't make mirroring those views,just because they are there, a legitimate excuse for trolling.

    Fans from other teams,if they genuinely come in peace,need to have a far greater tolerance for those who choose to see things more optimistically.The vast majority of posts I see are provocative nonsense whether that be you or others,there is very little objectivity going on.So there are people on here who have hope that things might go well,of course there are,it's a Jets board.Poking a stick at someone just to get a rise is not big,nor clever.

    If I cared and bothered to go to another teams message board I'd show due respect for those there.probably expect the odd numpty to illustrate that every team has it's idiot that's escaped from the village and ignore while finding the knowledgable posters who had something to offer and add to my understanding.

    Anyway seeing as you're keen to show off your Jet-loving credentials and in a spirit of open and honest dialogue feel free to respond with 10 reasons why you believe the Jets will buck conventional wisdom and contend in 2013

    I'll even help you get started,,

    1)-No Sanchez means no more butt-fumbles

    The floor is yours....
    I am not a jet lover, just not a jet hater. Honest reasons or just best possible scenarios?

    1. Moningwhig > Sparono
    2. Holmes may come back early from Liz Franc
    3. Revis is back
    4. Hill takes a 2nd year jump
    5. Howard takes a 2nd year jump (as starter)
    6 Coples- see above

    That is it, I can't at this time,
    Last edited by patman; 02-20-2013 at 10:59 AM.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    McIntyre is no starter either. He can be an adequate backup, but we'd better not go into the season with him starting. He had one good game early on then he missed a lot of tackles, and was blown up consistently. Scott, and Pace are just too old. I don't know why people have to be jerks about it. It's not their fault they were paid too much and for too long. It's not like they didn't hustle, or were out of position. They're just too slow at this point, but they were both good, blue collar players for us, and got us a lot of wins. We need two new starting LBs. We should get one at 9, and hopefully one FA, and maybe one later in the draft.
    Well, you better get used to the idea.

    Because I think it's pretty much guaranteed that McIntyre will be a starter next season considering how cash strapped we are.

    And I have zero love for Pace or Bart. Two more silly ass contracts handed out by that mook Tannenbaum. Both of them underachieved the entire time they were here. Bart had one good season then took a nosedive off the nearest cliff.

    I reserve my respect for guys like Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones. Yeah, they became old and useless, but they had some GREAT years for this team in the past.

  20. #100
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    quick drive by

    saw the cuts -- good start

    time for Bryan Thomas, Pouha and (OF COURSE) Timmy the Turd to join them in the parking lot

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