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Thread: Tebow to speak at controversial church

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Well by your logic it's ok to use the n-word to describe black people because once upon a time that was ok and led to the American Civil War. What would compel Robert Jefress to take the offensive against Catholicism like that his religion is already the fastest growing in the United States what are those "Satanic" Catholics eating into his tax free donations I mean followers?
    Your comments reflect a fundamental misunderstanding of Baptist theology as it relates to Gays and anyone else. In a simple way, the Baptists believe that doing certain things are wrong.

    Simply put, Baptists do not believe that anyone "is Gay." Just as they believe heterosexual adultery is wrong, they believe choosing to have sex with people of the same sex is wrong. They see both as "conduct" that is a sin. Just as people are not born Adulterous, they don't believe anyone is born Gay.

    BUT - they do not hate the sinner. Just as they believe that you can save people from adultery, you can save people from gay acts. Indeed, "saving" people from Sin is a fundamental tenant of their faith.

    Now, the Gays would have everyone believe that they are born/created/etc Gay. Thus, they believe that their "conduct" could not be a sin and anyone who questions their conduct necessarily "hates" them.

    Personally, I don't care if people are gay. It's a free country. They can do what they want.

    But, they don't have the right to claim everyone who disagrees with them is a hatemonger.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    Your comments reflect a fundamental misunderstanding of Baptist theology as it relates to Gays and anyone else. In a simple way, the Baptists believe that doing certain things are wrong.

    Simply put, Baptists do not believe that anyone "is Gay." Just as they believe heterosexual adultery is wrong, they believe choosing to have sex with people of the same sex is wrong. They see both as "conduct" that is a sin. Just as people are not born Adulterous, they don't believe anyone is born Gay.

    BUT - they do not hate the sinner. Just as they believe that you can save people from adultery, you can save people from gay acts. Indeed, "saving" people from Sin is a fundamental tenant of their faith.

    Now, the Gays would have everyone believe that they are born/created/etc Gay. Thus, they believe that their "conduct" could not be a sin and anyone who questions their conduct necessarily "hates" them.

    Personally, I don't care if people are gay. It's a free country. They can do what they want.

    But, they don't have the right to claim everyone who disagrees with them is a hatemonger.
    So clearly you are on the nurture side of the question: "Nature or Nurture", as you apparently think being gay is a choice. I've had both gay friends and relatives in my life who I believe all have no choice in the matter. It just "Is".

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski View Post
    So clearly you are on the nurture side of the question: "Nature or Nurture", as you apparently think being gay is a choice. I've had both gay friends and relatives in my life who I believe all have no choice in the matter. It just "Is".
    You can be predisposed to being gay but that doesn't mean you have to have gay sex. There are plenty of gay men who have fathered children and been chaste with their wives despite being born "gay".

    As and example Tim Tebow graduated college in Florida but hasn't had sex. That doesn't mean he is gay or straight even though he probably is predisposed one way or another.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    You can be predisposed to being gay but that doesn't mean you have to have gay sex. There are plenty of gay men who have fathered children and been chaste with their wives despite being born "gay".

    As and example Tim Tebow graduated college in Florida but hasn't had sex. That doesn't mean he is gay or straight even though he probably is predisposed one way or another.
    So which better defines someone's gayness or heterosexuality, who they actually have sex with, or who they would prefer to have sex with?

  5. #45
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    Speaking of ghey. I believe this is not a choice. Being a hampur resident we see clear evidence of this sort of thing everyday. Guys attacking any woman we post a picture of they hate the ladies hate them. You know who you are.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    You can be predisposed to being gay but that doesn't mean you have to have gay sex. There are plenty of gay men who have fathered children and been chaste with their wives despite being born "gay".

    As and example Tim Tebow graduated college in Florida but hasn't had sex. That doesn't mean he is gay or straight even though he probably is predisposed one way or another.
    Damn, you really are dumb.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski View Post
    So clearly you are on the nurture side of the question: "Nature or Nurture", as you apparently think being gay is a choice. I've had both gay friends and relatives in my life who I believe all have no choice in the matter. It just "Is".
    Personally, I think that people are not 100% "born gay" because genetics alone would cause both identical twins to be both gay or both not gay. But, nurture alone would suggest all kids in the same environment would turn out gay or not gay. Finally, I think some people do "choose" to be gay - often they are bisexual.

    All in, I think there is a genetic AND a nurture component. By the time that people reach adulthood, I think most people ARE gay or are NOT gay.

    The small percentage that can choose are typically curious, confused and/ or damaged people who no longer consider gender relevant to their choice of a sex partner and/or life partner.

    But, Baptists don't see it that way. They see it as a temptation that can be rejected. They see it as no different than drinking, dancing, adultery, or other sinful conduct that must be fought against.

    btw - I am not a Baptist, but grew up in Dallas with a lot of them.
    Last edited by Digetydog; 02-22-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    Personally, I think that people are not 100% "born gay" because genetics alone would cause both identical twins to be both gay or both not gay. But, nurture alone would suggest all kids in the same environment would turn out gay or not gay. Finally, I think some people do "choose" to be gay - often they are bisexual.

    All in, I think there is a genetic AND a nurture component. By the time that people reach adulthood, I think most people ARE gay or are NOT gay.

    The small percentage that can choose are typically curious, confused and/ or damaged people who no longer consider gender relevant to their choice of a sex partner and/or life partner.

    But, Baptists don't see it that way. They see it as a temptation that can be rejected. They see it as no different than drinking, dancing, adultery, or other sinful conduct that must be fought against.

    btw - I am not a Baptist, but grew up in Dallas with a lot of them.
    Seems pretty reasonable.

    Personally, I prefer females. Is that a choice? No. I just know that when I see a woman's body, I enjoy it. It's the same for gay people. A gay man/woman who sees another man's/woman's body likes it and enjoys it.

    What has me shaking my head is that we're still arguing about this in 2013.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    Personally, I think that people are not 100% "born gay" because genetics alone would cause both identical twins to be both gay or both not gay. But, nurture alone would suggest all kids in the same environment would turn out gay or not gay. Finally, I think some people do "choose" to be gay - often they are bisexual.

    All in, I think there is a genetic AND a nurture component. By the time that people reach adulthood, I think most people ARE gay or are NOT gay. .
    Exactly what do you think happens in someone's life that makes them gay?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Exactly what do you think happens in someone's life that makes them gay?
    It could be genetic. We have genes that determine hair color, eye color, etc. Some scientists think we have genes that determine our personality. It isn't out of the question that we have a sexuality gene.

    But this isn't a discussion for the internet let alone JI. I am shocked this thread hasn't been locked yet.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Exactly what do you think happens in someone's life that makes them gay?
    That was my point. I don't know. People are complicated and it is hard to say what mix of stuff (genetic, environment, events) causes anyone to be gay.

    I am not aware of a scientific consensus on the issue.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoYaztremski View Post
    So which better defines someone's gayness or heterosexuality, who they actually have sex with, or who they would prefer to have sex with?
    I think you're born either homosexual or heterosexual but since you have free will it's the behavior that counts to those who define behavior as sin. Clearly people can choose to have sex or not and cross over their natural predisposition by choice.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I think you're born either homosexual or heterosexual but since you have free will it's the behavior that counts to those who define behavior as sin. Clearly people can choose to have sex or not and cross over their natural predisposition by choice.
    So, tell us what's wrong about two gay men/women having sex with each other?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    So, tell us what's wrong about two gay men/women having sex with each other?
    Who said there was anything wrong? Adults can make choices, enjoy!

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    You can be predisposed to being gay but that doesn't mean you have to have gay sex...I think you're born either homosexual or heterosexual but since you have free will it's the behavior that counts to those who define behavior as sin.
    You JUST said it was sinful, thus wrong. So, tell us what's so wrong about it...

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    You JUST said it was sinful, thus wrong. So, tell us what's so wrong about it...
    I get it

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    It could be genetic. We have genes that determine hair color, eye color, etc. Some scientists think we have genes that determine our personality. It isn't out of the question that we have a sexuality gene.

    But this isn't a discussion for the internet let alone JI. I am shocked this thread hasn't been locked yet.
    LOL, love it when you play message board cop, after you contribute to the discussion you try to condemn.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    That was my point. I don't know. People are complicated and it is hard to say what mix of stuff (genetic, environment, events) causes anyone to be gay.

    I am not aware of a scientific consensus on the issue.
    Think there is a wide spread consensus that people are born gay.

    There are plenty of homosexual animals n the planet...it wasn't something in their upbringing that did that.

    A certain percentage of the population are born gay. A certain percentage are left handed.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Think there is a wide spread consensus that people are born gay. .
    That is simply not true. While there is a consensus that people "are gay," the cause is not likely to be 100% genetic. If it were, both identical twins would always be gay or not gay. While there are studies that suggest identical twins are more likely to share sexual orientation, there are none that show 100% correlation.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2003361.html

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    That is simply not true. While there is a consensus that people "are gay," the cause is not likely to be 100% genetic. If it were, both identical twins would always be gay or not gay. While there are studies that suggest identical twins are more likely to share sexual orientation, there are none that show 100% correlation.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2003361.html
    Gay people come all from kinds of backgrounds, families and upbringings. From what I can see, nothing from a nurturing standpoint "makes" someone gay.

    Agree to disagree. I really don't care what makes someone gay, I just believe in respecting everyone. I certainly don't see it as sinful. It doesn't hurt anyone. Why people get upset about someone else's private life is beyond me.

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