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Thread: Jets will try to restructure Holmes contract

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I don't understand the reason to pretend. The NFL is not "Far Far Away" The poster posted a hypothetical situation and I responded. When Jason posted pretty much the same thing, I said that i thought that Holmes would take a pay cut this year, and I still do. But IMO he will not touch his guarantee portion of his contract. His contract is 11 mill of which 3.5 is not guaranteed, I think he will be ok with cutting this years salary down to 9 if they fully guarantee it. This will save the jets 2.25 mill this year and Holmes is guaranteed 1.25 more than he is now. I think he would further reduce his guarantee by an equal 2014 guarantee.

    I am just being pragmatic. It seemed like the scenarios the OP presented and approved of only benefited the jets and Holmes was not even thrown a bone.
    You're right, good post, but you do have a tendency to throw cold water from time to time, it's annoying.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I am sure Holmes will want to work with the jets as long as it does not cost him the money he took as a guarantee in lieu of a SB. The jets committed to him to an extent that IMO no one else would have, and i think he will acknowledge that.
    Your subtle trolling is so obvious....

    JMO

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    It is a long read but explains fully what the Jets options are regarding Holmes deal.



    Santonio Holmes- Set to count $12.5 million against the cap in 2013, Holmes represents the third largest cap hit on the team. Holmesí contract is one of those I often talk about that has built in flexibility due to the fact that the Jets used a large guarantee rather than prorated bonus in structuring his deal. While he has almost no trade value the Jets could opt for the prorated bonus method to bring his numbers back in line with where they would have been had they used that structure in 2011. I probably would not opt for that but weíll discuss it.

    In some ways Holmes probably should go in the paycut or release category, but ego is involved with him and even a paycut on paper is going to have to be a reshuffling of money to the backend of his deal. Holmes is set to earn $11.25 million in salary plus a $250,000 workout bonus. Of that money $7.5 million is fully guaranteed and $250K is guaranteed for injury, but being that he is injured the Jets are probably stuck with that payment so its $7.75 million in guarantees. That all sounds bad, but letís look deeper and see where the Jets have some power.

    If released Holmes will count for $11.5 million in dead money. While that is a high figure the Jets will gain $1 million in cap space. Thatís a little power, that one would think is offset by the need to cut Holmes a $7.75 million dollar check. Unlike most of their other contracts, though, Holmesí guarantee was reported to be of the much weaker variety in that the team receives offset credits if he signs with another club. How does that matter? If the Jets cut him the Jets pay him $7.75 million. He is going to sign with another team. For how much? Considering injury, ineffectiveness in 2011, and a bad reputation around the league $4-$5 million a year would be the most I think he would earn. Since he canít double dip his max earnings are likely $7.75 million this year. The Jets get credits for salary earned so that $1 million in savings can quickly grow to $4 or $5 million and their cash obligation reduce to $3 or $4 million. Thatís power. It renders the $11.25 million base salary worthless .

    What that means is the best financial future for him is tied to staying with the Jets both in 2013 and an opportunity to earn his $9.5 million in 2014. So in my mind the difference between $7.75 and $11.25 immediately comes off the books. Like I said he is going to want the contract to still say he makes his $45 million so you simply roll that $3.75 million into 2015 as a roster bonus. By doing this we donít touch his 2014 cap number while lowering his 2013 cap charge to $9 million. Now some may say why not just release him. While I could see that point he still is a talent and the Jets do need something on offense in 2013. While I do not think he fits at all in a WCO system maybe you can get something out of him. I look at that as different as Paceís situation where you could probably replace him with a warm pulse. The dropoff between Holmes to Clyde Gates is huge, no matter how much Holmes mopes around the field.

    Do you want to cut more out of Holmesí cap? There are two avenues by which we can do that. One of the good things about a player being injured is that you can work with his contract to skirt the salary cap for a season by using in game roster bonuses as a replacement for salary. Holmes was only active for 4 weeks in 2012 so only ľ of the total roster bonus would count on the 2013 cap if the Jets went that route. This is what they did with LaRon Landry last year to save on cap space.

    Now the negative with that move is that I donít think his side would be as willing to accept a pay reduction since there is danger that the bonus money will not be earned. To make it work you would have to do something that most of the fanbase would be against and that is guarantee an offsetting amount of salary in 2014, a guarantee that would void only upon playing a certain number of games in 2013. How would that work in practice? You would pay him a base salary of $4.3 million in 2013 plus his $250,000 workout bonus. Those salaries are earned regardless of injury. You would convert the remaining $3.2 million into per game roster bonuses worth $200,000 per game in which he is on the gameday active list. Because he was only active 4 games in 2013 only $800,000 of the roster bonuses count towards the Jets 2013 cap with the rest only affecting the cap at the end of the season. This brings his cap charge down to $6.6 million. I could see doing that since the only pain in 2014 is if he doesnít play 16 games in 2013 because he would be more difficult to cut. The $200,000 per game was just for illustration and you could do any number you want as long as his base salary is at least $840,000 in 2013. I like this idea if he is staying here.

    The other option is to go all in on Holmes and decide you definitely want him here in 2014. What you do in that case is take the $7.5 million base, reduce it to $840,000 and convert the remaining $6,660,000 to a signing bonus. That reduces his 2013 cap charge to $4.56 million, but it increases his 2014 cap to $12.97 million and his 2014 dead money to $6.94 million. I donít like either of those numbers. Even if he plays well it puts you right back to square 1 with his contract. I donít think he is worth the risk of this move even if it means short term health. Im going to aim for a paycut and a ďlets play ballĒ mentality with the contract.
    2013 Savings: $5.9 million in Cap and $3.5 million in Cash
    2014 Savings: $0K Cash and Cap
    blah Blah Blah.

    Unless Holmes has a moron for an agent, he will tell the Jets to pound sand.
    1) they keep him around and he gets the full amount of him money
    2) they cut him and he signs with a team with a better QB situation(aka everyone) to drive up his value for 2014.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    You're right, good post, but you do have a tendency to throw cold water from time to time, it's annoying.
    Thats a perfect way to state it..... He tries to throw zingers and jabs in very subtle ways....

    IMO its more annoying than PatFanTX's method

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I am sure Holmes will want to work with the jets as long as it does not cost him the money he took as a guarantee in lieu of a SB. The jets committed to him to an extent that IMO no one else would have, and i think he will acknowledge that.
    In fantasy land, do the rivers run with chocolate?

    The NFL is a business. Holmes won't do the Jets any favors unless he wins in the deal - financially.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Ray19 View Post
    True, and like I said, the Eagles had more leverage due to less guaranteed money, also as you noted, but Holmes wouldn't really command a big market with his character issues and coming off of a significant injury, so there is also risk on Holmes part to play hardball.
    No, he would not, I don't see a market for him at all next year. I did not even know that Vick had any guaranteed money. His only leverage was that the dead money was prohibitive.

    But what is the risk to Holmes? He knows that in 2014 unless he has a year like he had in 2009 with Pitt he will not see the 2014- 8.5 mill salary and that either the jets will cut him then or threaten to. The worse thing that happens to Holmes is that they cut him, give him the 7.75 guarantee and 1/2 of the remaining 3.5 salary as a injury buy out. He then waits until November when a playoff team is looking for a WR on say a 2mill prorated contract that he might see 750,000 of.

    I think that is a better situation than being on the jets with maybe Sanchez throwing him the ball before hitting FA in 2014. At least he gets to pick his team and qb to maximize his appeal as a Fa in 2014.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro_Irvin View Post
    Your subtle trolling is so obvious....

    JMO
    I don't mean to Troll and I don't mean to be subtle either. I give my take, that is it. If I have a take that you disagree with, we will talk about it and i will listen and try to understand your view on it. Trolling is saying something for the only reason to illict a negative reaction. My posts may not take the rosy view but they are at least are somewhat thoughtful.
    Last edited by patman; 02-24-2013 at 09:44 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    I don't mean to Troll and I don't mean to be subtle either. I give my take, that is it. If I have a take that you disagree with, we will talk about it and i will listen and try to understand your view on it. Trolling is saying something for the only reason to illict a negative reaction. My posts may not take the rosy view but they are at least are somewhat thoughtful.
    Fair enough

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    blah Blah Blah.

    Unless Holmes has a moron for an agent, he will tell the Jets to pound sand.
    1) they keep him around and he gets the full amount of him money
    2) they cut him and he signs with a team with a better QB situation(aka everyone) to drive up his value for 2014.
    Actually it would be in his best interest to help the JETS. Even if the deal is to make him movable it would be in his best interest. It would be a lot easier to trade him IF he didn't cost the team trading for him 10 mil in cap to do it. Even if he signed a 2 year 7-8 mil a year deal with a 4 mil base fully guaranteed would be a huge difference. He can actually guarantee he will make 4 mil next year regardless of where he ends up.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    In fantasy land, do the rivers run with chocolate?

    The NFL is a business. Holmes won't do the Jets any favors unless he wins in the deal - financially.
    In other words we are stuck with him for another year. My opinion is he actually works this year since he knows he could be cut in 2014 and at that point he may only get the veteran minimum.

  11. #31
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    Holmes is not a team player and he will be a problem. He showed up to the last camp out of shape. Cut him right now and save the million in cap money - and maybe a mil or so more if another team picks him up. I dont remember seeing Holmes in the clown car but hes there - in the trunk. Dump this clown now!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Actually it would be in his best interest to help the JETS. Even if the deal is to make him movable it would be in his best interest. It would be a lot easier to trade him IF he didn't cost the team trading for him 10 mil in cap to do it. Even if he signed a 2 year 7-8 mil a year deal with a 4 mil base fully guaranteed would be a huge difference. He can actually guarantee he will make 4 mil next year regardless of where he ends up.
    I don't understand why you feel it would be in his best interest not to take the full guarantee & the injury settlement and become a FA. Unless that 2 year contract has 4 mill guaranteed each year.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJam Football View Post
    Holmes is not a team player and he will be a problem. He showed up to the last camp out of shape. Cut him right now and save the million in cap money - and maybe a mil or so more if another team picks him up. I dont remember seeing Holmes in the clown car but hes there - in the trunk. Dump this clown now!
    You cut him now, it won't be an extra mill as he will need to be replaced so that is a wash. But you do save almost 4 mill on next years cap.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Actually it would be in his best interest to help the JETS. Even if the deal is to make him movable it would be in his best interest. It would be a lot easier to trade him IF he didn't cost the team trading for him 10 mil in cap to do it. Even if he signed a 2 year 7-8 mil a year deal with a 4 mil base fully guaranteed would be a huge difference. He can actually guarantee he will make 4 mil next year regardless of where he ends up.
    Apparently, you flunked math: $7.5m guaranteed > $4m everywhere.

    Given his health issues and age, only a complete idiot would give up that much guaranteed money.

    They only way they restructure his contract is if they do something like this:
    2013: $4m guaranteed (no offset language) +
    2014: $4m guaranteed (no offset language).

    Then, they cut him. He makes $8m from the Jets over two years + whatever he can get from a new team.

  15. #35
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    Cut him! I can't stand him. My brother in law just ran into Holmes at the Embassy Suites bar in Piscataway. He told me Holmes was by himself, and was a complete jerk to everyone.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyf0614 View Post
    Cut him! I can't stand him. My brother in law just ran into Holmes at the Embassy Suites bar in Piscataway. He told me Holmes was by himself, and was a complete jerk to everyone.

    How the guy treats fans should be irrelevant. The guy is a football player and probably gets bothered every time he goes out. You have to understand that everybody has bad days and can't be expected to be gracious always.

    But the guy probably is a jerk anyway.

  17. #37
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    Stupid Jets being stupid again.

    Just pay him the $11.2 this season and let him walk next year. This season is all about biting the bullet! Bite the bullet on Sanchez, and bite the bullet on Holmes, then 2014 gets us a new QB and a non-cancerous #1 WR. It also gives one of the young bucks a chance to step up to become the #1WR.


    Pay him, get it over with, move on... DO NOT RESTRUCTURE!


    DO NOT RESTRUCTURE!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Since you are "running out of lives" I guess we can expect more of this piggybacking and passive aggressiveness.

    And I am not sure how this is positive for the Jets unless he takes a pay cut.
    Just like we can expect you to be a smug d!ckbag in response to anything he posts.

  19. #39
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    Came here to say GFY Holmes

  20. #40
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    DO NOT RESTRUCTURE THIS HOODRAT!


    PAY HIM THIS YEAR AND GET RID OF HIM!

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