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Thread: NFL Combine News and Other NFL News, Rumors--Monday Feb 25th

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    So is OG with both Slauson and Moore on the way out.

    Yet there are a ton of you guys who are dead set against taking the best OG prospect to come out in over a decade.

    I personally don't understand it.
    History suggest that OG is simply not valued as a position as much as other positions. Also you are talking about Warmack as if it is a given he is the best in a decade. Some of us have pointed out that we have heard that about OG's 4 or 5 times in the last 10 years. Right or wrong that is how things have gone historically.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    They could use Vacarro even if they sign Revis. Landry is a pipe dream right now. Right now Bush and Allen are the only safeties on the roster.
    the more i look at the top of the board and who will be gone, vacarro is looking better every day. rather him than reach for an olb.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    So is OG with both Slauson and Moore on the way out.

    Yet there are a ton of you guys who are dead set against taking the best OG prospect to come out in over a decade.

    I personally don't understand it.
    Not trying to rip on Warmack or you here, but you keep throwing that term around and it was used on DeCastro last year as well.

    In all honesty it seems te only reason Warmack is considered this high is because of a lack of impact players at the top of the draft. I wonder if the roles were reversed and Warmack was coming out last year, would he have slid like DeCastro

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    the more i look at the top of the board and who will be gone, vacarro is looking better every day. rather him than reach for an olb.
    Bottom line is that the Jets can not afford to miss on another top 10 draft pick. Thats why I would be in favor of taking a guard like Warmack, who are typically not top 10 positions. If Vacarro checks out and can be a starter from day one, then fine. I wouldnt even object to one of the LTs and play him at RT for a few years.

  5. #65
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    I"m still to be convinced that Damontre Moore isn't Terrell Suggs 2.0

    Suggs production at ASU was insane but bombed the combine and slid to Baltimore on draft day

    Moore has produced playing 3-4 OLB and then adjusted effortlessly to DE in a 4-3.

    He made lots of tackles and tfl's and that says to me he's the anti-Gholston.some guys just don't perform when the combine comes around and only a couple of days ago the debate was that what these guys do in shorts should be taken with a punch of salt.

    If you thought he was a beast before this weekend then why does this drastically change your mind?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    History suggest that OG is simply not valued as a position as much as other positions. Also you are talking about Warmack as if it is a given he is the best in a decade. Some of us have pointed out that we have heard that about OG's 4 or 5 times in the last 10 years. Right or wrong that is how things have gone historically.
    History would suggest that rookie QB's don't make an immediate impact.

    RECENT history would dictate otherwise.

    History would suggest that gimmicky, spread offenses don't work in the NFL.

    RECENT history, again, would dictate otherwise.



    The NFL is changing. Just because guards haven't historically been taken in the Top 10 doesn't mean that trend will continue. In fact, it won't.

    There's the very real possibility that we could see two OG's taken in the Top 10 two months from now. Especially with all of the passrushers sliding like hotcakes.
    Last edited by Untouchable; 02-25-2013 at 12:09 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    I"m still to be convinced that Damontre Moore isn't Terrell Suggs 2.0

    Suggs production at ASU was insane but bombed the combine and slid to Baltimore on draft day

    Moore has produced playing 3-4 OLB and then adjusted effortlessly to DE in a 4-3.

    He made lots of tackles and tfl's and that says to me he's the anti-Gholston.some guys just don't perform when the combine comes around and only a couple of days ago the debate was that what these guys do in shorts should be taken with a punch of salt.

    If you thought he was a beast before this weekend then why does this drastically change your mind?
    Shocking how bad his combine is. His tape tells a different story.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    I"m still to be convinced that Damontre Moore isn't Terrell Suggs 2.0

    Suggs production at ASU was insane but bombed the combine and slid to Baltimore on draft day

    Moore has produced playing 3-4 OLB and then adjusted effortlessly to DE in a 4-3.

    He made lots of tackles and tfl's and that says to me he's the anti-Gholston.some guys just don't perform when the combine comes around and only a couple of days ago the debate was that what these guys do in shorts should be taken with a punch of salt.

    If you thought he was a beast before this weekend then why does this drastically change your mind?
    Wow, I didnt realize how "poorly" suggs did at the combine

    4.8 40 and 19 reps

    Definitely a reminder we cant put too much into this

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    History would suggest that rookie QB's don't make an immediate impact.

    RECENT history would dictate otherwise.

    History would suggest that gimmicky, spread offenses don't work in the NFL.

    RECENT history, again, would dictate otherwise.



    The NFL is changing. Just because guards haven't historically been taken in the Top 10 doesn't mean that trend will continue. In fact, it won't.

    There's the very real possibility that we could see two OG's taken in the Top 10 two months from now. Especially with all of the passrushers sliding like hotcakes.
    But it HASN'T changed for guards yet. That is the point. Hey, it's fine that you are pushing this, you strongly believe in it but there are simply some positions that are not valued as highly as others. ILB's, OG's safeties have all been historically valued somewhat less then others.

    Your case is stronger now than it was before only because some of these olbs are looking suspect.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    But it HASN'T changed for guards yet. That is the point. Hey, it's fine that you are pushing this, you strongly believe in it but there are simply some positions that are not valued as highly as others. ILB's, OG's safeties have all been historically valued somewhat less then others.

    Your case is stronger now than it was before only because some of these olbs are looking suspect.
    Pat Kirwan thinks it is. With the NFL game changing to more passing he feels you need better OG play to create a clean pocket for the QB to throw.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    History would suggest that rookie QB's don't make an immediate impact.

    RECENT history would dictate otherwise.

    History would suggest that gimmicky, spread offenses don't work in the NFL.

    RECENT history, again, would dictate otherwise.



    The NFL is changing. Just because guards haven't historically been taken in the Top 10 doesn't mean that trend will continue. In fact, it won't.

    There's the very real possibility that we could see two OG's taken in the Top 10 two months from now. Especially with all of the passrushers sliding like hotcakes.
    You cant use the fact that 2 OGs could be taken in the top 10 as indicative of a trend that the NFL is now valuing guards higher then before.

    It is simply indicative of the fact that this is a weak draft as far as "impact positions" of Pass rusher and QB.

    Truthfully, the fact that its even a discussion if warmack is a top 10 pick is the proof that your thoughts on a trend towards guards being more valuable is actually NOT happening.

    If warmack is considered the "best player in the draft" yet he is a borderline top 10 guy, let alone top 3, that alone would indicate that guards are not valued as much. If they were, he would be a top 3 pick no matter what.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Warmack is sounding better and better by the day at #9.

    There are red flags with seemingly every passrusher.
    Seems like you are valuing the combine over tape. Moore has the tape, much like Warmack. Warmack was a sloth in the 40, but like you said that doesn't override the tape he has. I still take Moore at 9, but if Rex/Izdik were to take Ansah in a situation like that I wouldn't argue with their collective knowledge.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Pat Kirwan thinks it is. With the NFL game changing to more passing he feels you need better OG play to create a clean pocket for the QB to throw.
    safeties too. need safeties who can cover more than ever.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    safeties too. need safeties who can cover more than ever.
    Completely agree. Jets said that last offseason. One of the reason they took Josh Bush. He needs to step up year 2.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    safeties too. need safeties who can cover more than ever.
    Correct. Especially with the rise of the high level TE's. Graham, Gronk, Pitta etc.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Completely agree. Jets said that last offseason. One of the reason they took Josh Bush. He needs to step up year 2.
    getting a guy like vacarro would help reduce the pain of trading revis and finally give the team someone who can cover the middle of the field. he may wind up being the best value, when all is said and done.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Pat Kirwan thinks it is. With the NFL game changing to more passing he feels you need better OG play to create a clean pocket for the QB to throw.
    Another person that thinks it should change, it hasn't so far. Look at the sack stat leaders from last year. Essentially Geno Atkins is the only inside guy that put up a lot of sacks. Essentially the only one in the top 30.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    getting a guy like vacarro would help reduce the pain of trading revis and finally give the team someone who can cover the middle of the field. he may wind up being the best value, when all is said and done.
    Could very well be. I mentioned earlier that every need can not be filled in this one draft or this entire off season for that matter. Plus, you can only draft what is there.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Could very well be. I mentioned earlier that every need can not be filled in this one draft or this entire off season for that matter. Plus, you can only draft what is there.
    true. and unless a team really wants a guy like lane johnson i don't see anyone trading up. the jets are probably stuck at 9, and will choose from guys like dion jordan, warmack, vacarro and maybe gino smith if he falls.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Another person that thinks it should change, it hasn't so far. Look at the sack stat leaders from last year. Essentially Geno Atkins is the only inside guy that put up a lot of sacks. Essentially the only one in the top 30.
    I think they were getting at that, since there are more screens and short passes that essentially act like run plays, you need guards who can get out in space and onto the next level to effectively block those plays.

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