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Thread: Jets moving primarily to a 4-3 front?

  1. #41
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    Palmetto_defender: "Look at me, look at me, look at me"

    Go jump off a bridge

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Um how about because the Ravens run virtually the same scheme that we do?

    We dont play a traditional 3-4 like the steelers do, and if you think we do, try to find the % of snaps that both Pace and BT have been standing up in a 2 point stance.

    We play a hyrbid scheme that rex learned and developed in Baltimore and that they kept after he left....that is why the comparison makes complete sense.

    Sweet analogy to brady btw
    how can you compare the ravens defense to the jets because they play the same scheme? really?

    they have better skilled players and they are better coached.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    As far as Wilkerson - he ranks where in the conference? Unless he's top 5, he's a jag.
    If that same logic applies to all positions, then a team full of JAG's just won the Superbowl.

    And if the Jets are full of JAG's too, then we must be closer to winning the Superbowl than most people think we are.


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    how can you compare the ravens defense to the jets because they play the same scheme? really?

    they have better skilled players and they are better coached.
    I can do that because the thread is about changing from a 3-4 SCHEME to a 4-3 SCHEME, not about the quality of the personnel or the results.

    I stay out of your inane arguments in the other threads but are you seriously this dense?

  5. #45
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    Regardless of front, we don't have any true pass-rushers. No 4-3 DE's or 3-4 OLB's. Pace never produced what he should've been able to, we whiffed on Gholston and Maybin had a fluke season. One of our first two draft picks will likely be an OLB

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    I can do that because the thread is about changing from a 3-4 SCHEME to a 4-3 SCHEME, not about the quality of the personnel or the results.

    I stay out of your inane arguments in the other threads but are you seriously this dense?
    you just cant compare our defense to the super bowl champion ravens. for arguments sake discussion sake or any sake.

    what dont you understand?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Good points. As much as everyone thinks that the player in that "Suggs" role needs to be able to play in space and cover guys, the reality is that he needs to be able rush the passer and play the run first and foremost. Which is why guys like Mingo and Jordan could be huge risks if they are not able to get to the QB at under 250lbs. Ansah is the perfect blend of size and speed for that position, he is just raw.
    Mingo, or Jordan will not play in that role. They'll be on the other side where Wilk is. No need to worry about setting the edge on that side. It's a 4-3 3-4 hybrid. You only need 4 lineman sized players.

  8. #48
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    Feels like this conversation moves in circles. The Jets do play a "multiple front" system, but from watching every game, it seems they are usually doing it from sub/nickel looks. In other words, the fourth down lineman was usually Calvin Pace or another 3-4OLB, and often Harris was the only other LB on the field, and then a mix o DBs (including three-safety looks).

    There were very few "base" 4-3 snaps, where you had two true DTs and two true DEs, and Will/Mike/Sam linebackers. That's a personnel problem. A line of Ellis, Pouha, Wilkerson, and Coples just gives too much away to the pass and to the edges, even though they're all good players. Likewise, Harris 2012 doesn't show the skills to play Mike or Sam in a 4-3. Harris 2010, yes.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    you just cant compare our defense to the super bowl champion ravens. for arguments sake discussion sake or any sake.

    what dont you understand?
    That reference was actually from after the 2010 season.

    Honestly, just stop - if you have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion, leave it.

    We are talking about scheme and specifically the role of the DE/OLB - nothing else.

    The ravens run the closest system to what we do, so they are the most accurate comparison.

    If you dont see that, there is no point trying to explain it.

    You should google "analysis of the Rex Ryan defense" and maybe you will learn something about the team you root for.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    That reference was actually from after the 2010 season.

    Honestly, just stop - if you have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion, leave it.

    We are talking about scheme and specifically the role of the DE/OLB - nothing else.

    The ravens run the closest system to what we do, so they are the most accurate comparison.

    If you dont see that, there is no point trying to explain it.

    You should google "analysis of the Rex Ryan defense" and maybe you will learn something about the team you root for.
    the ravens have terrell suggs we dont.

    should we compare sanchez to brady because they both throw the football and play qb.

    you bring nothing to the table expect what ifs and if we only hads. stop thanks

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    You do know that wilkerson graded out as having one of the best seasons a 3-4 end has ever had? Unfortunately he did it the same year that watt was even better.

    Also as far as coples, you should try actually watching the games and seeing how coples got more and more disruptive as the year wore on.

    You rip the "Jet homers" but you are no better....you want every draft pick to be aldon smith. 3-4 End has a lot of nuances to it, and it takes time. Coples had an excellent first year at the position and will only get better.

    Lastly whoever thinks harris is fast enough to be a 4-3 MLB is GROSSLY overrating him. He isnt fast enough with another ILB out there, if he has to play sideline to sideline we are in serious trouble.
    They moved Coples all over that line so he actually had to learn 4 positions. Most of which are not glamor(Stats) positions. This simple PD guy, with his simple player evaluations has not a clue. Coples did a great job considering that, and the injuries at NT, and the lack of production at OLB. If they can get the double teams of of them Coples and Wilk, will both be monsters out there.
    If they play Coples on the edge and they call it a 4-3 it makes no difference, because all of the other players have the same assignments they would have had anyway. You know Pace always had the option of putting his hand down, he just chose not to most of the time. They just need a speed rusher on the other side, and need to either get a big run stuffing OLB, or resign Devito, or Pouha, and play Coples in that spot, which it sounds like Rex wants to do. He did play in that spot quite a bit the last two games.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    Regardless of front, we don't have any true pass-rushers. No 4-3 DE's or 3-4 OLB's. Pace never produced what he should've been able to, we whiffed on Gholston and Maybin had a fluke season. One of our first two draft picks will likely be an OLB


    Buzz knows what I'm talking about.

    I don't even care if the guy is one-dimensional as hell in year 1. We need a player whose calling card is edge rushing.

    I absolutely love Coples and Wilkerson, but they're more of the jack-of-all-trades versatile players than pure pass rushers. They're certainly important to the defensive system in place, but they would truly thrive if a speed rusher complemented them (and vice versa).

    In a span of three drafts, we took Ellis, Abraham, and Thomas. No wonder why the best pass rush we had in the last decade was during their first 4-5 seasons. We've got two of the three pieces in place...let's get the final edge rusher and our front seven is set for a while.
    Last edited by Rexipus Rex; 02-26-2013 at 03:52 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    the ravens have terrell suggs we dont.

    should we compare sanchez to brady because they both throw the football and play qb.

    you bring nothing to the table expect what ifs and if we only hads. stop thanks
    Go away. We finally have a thread where people are discussing Xs and Os intelligently without trolls, and you are here for what purpose? Either join the discussion, or go do your homework.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleem View Post
    Feels like this conversation moves in circles. The Jets do play a "multiple front" system, but from watching every game, it seems they are usually doing it from sub/nickel looks. In other words, the fourth down lineman was usually Calvin Pace or another 3-4OLB, and often Harris was the only other LB on the field, and then a mix o DBs (including three-safety looks).

    There were very few "base" 4-3 snaps, where you had two true DTs and two true DEs, and Will/Mike/Sam linebackers. That's a personnel problem. A line of Ellis, Pouha, Wilkerson, and Coples just gives too much away to the pass and to the edges, even though they're all good players. Likewise, Harris 2012 doesn't show the skills to play Mike or Sam in a 4-3. Harris 2010, yes.
    Excellent post.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexipus Rex View Post


    Buzz knows what I'm talking about.

    I don't even care if the guy is one-dimensional as hell in year 1. We need a player whose calling card is edge rushing.

    I absolutely love Coples and Wilkerson, but they're more of the jack-of-all-trades versatile players than pure pass rushers. They're certainly important to the defensive system in place, but they would truly thrive if a speed rusher complemented them (and vice versa).

    In a span of three drafts, we took Ellis, Abraham, and Thomas. No wonder why the best pass rush we had was during their first 4-5 seasons. We've got two of the three pieces in place...let's get the final edge rusher and our front seven is set for a while.
    Yes we need one edge rusher, and one edge setter/power rusher in this defense. It would be nice if the edge rusher could also hold his own if we want to drop him in coverage, and was tall enough to bat down some passes which is why Jordan is intriguing.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    the ravens have terrell suggs we dont.

    should we compare sanchez to brady because they both throw the football and play qb.

    you bring nothing to the table expect what ifs and if we only hads. stop thanks
    You're really....really stupid my friend. It's like saying two pitchers are sinkerballers...one might have much better stuff than the other but they have the same repertoire and strategy. Morons like you ruin this site.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjetsb View Post
    You're really....really stupid my friend. It's like saying two pitchers are sinkerballers...one might have much better stuff than the other but they have the same repertoire and strategy. Morons like you ruin this site.
    Exactly

    Seriously, it is a very hard job to be a mod on this site....the amount of idiots that somehow enjoy anonymous bickering is shocking.

    There are some good posters here though, unfortunately most of the good threads are ruined with morons like this guy

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    Exactly

    Seriously, it is a very hard job to be a mod on this site....the amount of idiots that somehow enjoy anonymous bickering is shocking.

    There are some good posters here though, unfortunately most of the good threads are ruined with morons like this guy
    Dude from now on, no comparing schemes of base 4-3 teams to the Giants because they have the best 4-3....and for that matter don't you dare say that the 49ers and the Cardinals both run a 3-4 because the niners are so much better...that would be blasphemy and would make you look like a complete and utter dingus.

  19. #59
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    ive read in this thread that wilkerson is a jag and how terrell suggs lines up and the ravens defensive scheme is similiar to ours.

    i disagree with all of the above and im the bad guy idiot moron and stupid.

    we dont have ngata,reed,lewis,suggs yet we compare to the super bow champion ravens?

    give coples,ellis and wilkerson time use them properly fill a few gaps and this defense will be good.

    the 3-4 failed here because we had old and slow lbs. the 4-3 may or may not benefit this team, im willing to try and find out. the 3-4 requires a big run stuffing nt who clogs the middle we dont have one we do have an edge rusher in coples.

    xs and os is the talk not personal attacks because i dont agree with the corwd. sorry

  20. #60
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    Too many moving pieces with the personnel right now. Wilk is a better DE for 3-4 (although he could be okay in a 4-3). Coples I think could benefit more in a 4-3 at DE or DT. As mentioned, Harris is too slow for either. In a 4-3 I think DeMario would fit more as a MLB than OLB, but obviously he'd be a OLB and Harris at MLB. In a 4-3, no way you re-sign DeVito and Ellis becomes useless.

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