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Thread: Wealth distribution in US.

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    If you are rich, you either have worth or had a worthy parent.

    I had to look twice to be sure I really read that. Perhaps the most ill-formed and frankly idiotic statement I have ever read here. So Mother Theresa was of no worth. Van Gogh was of no worth. Gaughin of no worth. Mozart, of no worth, and the list goes on and on. Anyone who measures human worth in dollars is frankly the most shallow idiot on the planet. As W.C. Fields once said, "A rich man is a poor man with money." Poverty of the imagination is a far greater failing than an empty pocket.

    Palmetto, something has happened to you. You were never this cynical, angry, and arrogant. Why the rage? Seriously.
    Last I checked, Mother Theresa had a VOW OF POVERTY. But of course, you knew that. Having had theology courses as I recall?
    Mozart lived quite well for awhile under patronage until self abuse got him. Van Gogh and Gaughin lived when exactly? Recently?
    Our society is based on achievement. Period. Achievement is rewarded with money. Periosd. Only a complete idiot would dispute that. Or a person who just fails. WC Fields was a drunken bum BTW. He is your source?

    By the way, quite a few people are recognized as contributing to society in a variety of ways. I have. That AND financial reward.
    Have you done your Mission to a Third World country yet? Hmmm?

    As far as cynical? No rage. Just saying that I respond to attacks. Always have. It's an admitted character flaw. I am actually tired of the free riders who complain about those who have things. It has nothing to do with age BTW. There are people my age who are takers as well as young people. My children are earners and contributing members of society. As are many other younger people. It's an "I deserve" attitude that I have a problem with.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2® View Post
    Some would, some wouldn't. We can't talk about "the rich" and "the poor" as if they are all the same. Some rich hoard every nickel, some give generously. I've also seen people donate $20 who I know really needed it.

    I don't think giving is totally "generosity" either. I know for me I have to admit it makes me feel good, boosts my ego a bit. The best thing is to donate locally where you can see results. The feeling you get when you see something good come to fruition is immeasurable.

    I can't imagine NOT giving back in some way, whether it be time or money.
    Im frightened by how much you and I agree. I can say the same for me. I give quite a bit and its not for the tax benefits. I dont think my clients do it for tax puroses.

    I have recently volunteered for a group in Charlotte that provides a place for kids to go in "the hood". These kids get a meal, tutors for school work are there, tooth brushes, food etc. I started by doing the tax return pro bono but now give more of my time and 4 figures in donations.

    Heart breaking to see these young kids afraid to go home. Welfare moms etc... terrible.

    I tell ALL my clients to give back. My standard line is "right here in this city, hundreds of kids go to bed hungry. Hundres if not thousands".

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    I am basing mine on charitable giving and give back.

    I am a believer that 80 percent of peoplehave shaped their destiny. 10 percent on both ends (poor and rich) have unique circumstances.

    That said..I am somewhat of a Darwin believer but my experience is that the wealthy give back in a big way.
    Honest question. If you take away the tax benefits of charitable giving, do you think the same rich people are giving the same or close amount of time and/or money to charity?

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Honest question. If you take away the tax benefits of charitable giving, do you think the same rich people are giving the same or close amount of time and/or money to charity?


    I sympathize with many in need and contribute to a variety of causes. Disabled American Vets, Society for the Blind, American Heart Assoc., a couple dealing with children's ailments, The Humane Society (I like animals) and The Leukemia/Lymphoma Society (for which I have also worked on national fundraising campaigns).
    I am limited as to how much I can deduct. I also contribute to other smaller, local organizations.
    I consider the above good causes. There are others also.
    I, however, do not have sympathy for people with self caused problems - drugs, alcohol, tobacco or other abuses. Or those who neglected themselves through lack of education or lack of effort.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    Last I checked, Mother Theresa had a VOW OF POVERTY. But of course, you knew that. Having had theology courses as I recall?
    Mozart lived quite well for awhile under patronage until self abuse got him. Van Gogh and Gaughin lived when exactly? Recently?
    Our society is based on achievement. Period. Achievement is rewarded with money. Periosd. Only a complete idiot would dispute that. Or a person who just fails. WC Fields was a drunken bum BTW. He is your source?

    By the way, quite a few people are recognized as contributing to society in a variety of ways. I have. That AND financial reward.
    Have you done your Mission to a Third World country yet? Hmmm?

    As far as cynical? No rage. Just saying that I respond to attacks. Always have. It's an admitted character flaw. I am actually tired of the free riders who complain about those who have things. It has nothing to do with age BTW. There are people my age who are takers as well as young people. My children are earners and contributing members of society. As are many other younger people. It's an "I deserve" attitude that I have a problem with.
    I'm not attacking you at all. Just amazed at your position. I can just see Newton writing the Principia while rubbing his hands together and saying "ha, now the big bucks will roll in and I will finally be worthy!" Or Socrates charging a fee for a dialogue. Or Jesus saying "Blessed are the materially ambitious, for they shall inherit the earth." I don't think we'd have even heard of him today if he did. Or maybe he would be disguised as that silly woman, Ayn Rand and her objectivist twaddle. So carry on. You have every right to your position, even if it is carrying a reasonable notion (the work ethic) to the point of absurdity.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    Our society is based on achievement. Period. Achievement is rewarded with money. Periosd.
    You have a very narrow view of achievement in our society.

    At the end of our lives I guarantee we when we look back we won't consider the way we made money much of an achievement. Thats just a way to trade hours for a roof over our head and some food.

    The true achievements will be being a good father, husband, brother, son, friend, etc. And the rewards for those ain't money.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    I'm not attacking you at all. Just amazed at your position. I can just see Newton writing the Principia while rubbing his hands together and saying "ha, now the big bucks will roll in and I will finally be worthy!" Or Socrates charging a fee for a dialogue. Or Jesus saying "Blessed are the materially ambitious, for they shall inherit the earth." I don't think we'd have even heard of him today if he did. Or maybe he would be disguised as that silly woman, Ayn Rand and her objectivist twaddle. So carry on. You have every right to your position, even if it is carrying a reasonable notion (the work ethic) to the point of absurdity.

    You are educated and smart. This much I know. Different people can take different positions.
    In today's world success is measured by achievement and achievement is rewarded with money. It's just that simple.
    This is no longer the 17th through 19th Century. Then it was different. People were simpler and did not look as much to financial rewards (although in current dollars George Washington would be considered by far the richest of all presidents).
    Times change. Money and wealth are the reward. BUT they do not come without performance of some type.
    I still believe if you are great you will be rewarded. If you are lousy at what you do, you will not. Unfortunately, the Jets management has made my last statement a farce. LOL.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2® View Post
    You have a very narrow view of achievement in our society.

    At the end of our lives I guarantee we when we look back we won't consider the way we made money much of an achievement. Thats just a way to trade hours for a roof over our head and some food.

    The true achievements will be being a good father, husband, brother, son, friend, etc. And the rewards for those ain't money.


    True achievements ARE being a good spouse and parent. There is no arguement there. That responsibility goes without saying. It is a given.
    Like honesty, fidelity and lawfulness. Basic stuff.
    I perceive my primary responsibilty as to care for my family. I first provide for them now with a good environment, direction for my children and good education. Then I provide security for them financially. I have found that people perform at their best when they know they have a little money behind them. They are not afraid to be bold or decisive in decision making. They may still have a little fear of failure (and that's good) but they are protected. Knowing that I , my wife and all my children are protected for the REST OF OUR LIVES is to me important. I would hope others would have a similar goal.
    By the way, what's with the anti wealth? As I understand YOU may be the richest guy on JI. LOL

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    You are educated and smart. This much I know. Different people can take different positions.
    In today's world success is measured by achievement and achievement is rewarded with money. It's just that simple.
    This is no longer the 17th through 19th Century. Then it was different. People were simpler and did not look as much to financial rewards (although in current dollars George Washington would be considered by far the richest of all presidents).
    Times change. Money and wealth are the reward. BUT they do not come without performance of some type.
    I still believe if you are great you will be rewarded. If you are lousy at what you do, you will not. Unfortunately, the Jets management has made my last statement a farce. LOL.
    Today all across the US surgeons are being paid more for purely cosmetic boob jobs than they are for removing cancer tumors from women's breast or ovaries.

    Ambulance chasers routinely make more money than Federal Judges, Baseball player than marines in harm’s way.

    Money and wealth are a reward but they are not the only reward or the only measure of success. Success measured in money alone is a pretty shallow measure of success by anyone’s accounting method. We may be financially rewarding some instead of others based on a market out of balance? Markets tend to overshoot in both directions and financial reward follows. Re-balancing takes place all the time.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 03-08-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Today all across the US surgeons are being paid more for purely cosmetic boob jobs than they are for removing cancer tumors from women's breast or ovaries.

    Ambulance chasers routinely make more money than Federal Judges, Baseball player than marines in harm’s way.

    Money and wealth are a reward but they are not the only reward or the only measure of success. Success measured in money alone is a pretty shallow measure of success by anyone’s accounting method. We may be financially rewarding some instead of others based on a market out of balance? Markets tend to overshoot in both directions and financial reward follows. Re-balancing takes place all the time.

    That is VALUE. Pretty women ( or those who want to be) pay. A cosmetic surgeon is rewarded for his perceived skill. If he didn't perform he wouldn't get paid well. James Andrews, the orthopedic guy, makes a fortune because he is good.
    Ambulance chasers (though despicable, by me anyway) create value for their clients. They also have a VERY good education by and large. They have skills that are in demand.
    I earned a Silver Star for combat once. That got me zip at the time. Later it made me a fortune. Value recognized.
    Many actors and singers may be categorized as trash. But someone values them and hence they are rewared for their talent. People need to understand that if you establish value, you get money and reward. Just because you or I do not think highly of someone means nothing. The market DOES dictate. Those with value get rewarded.
    Do you work for free? Or for a lot less than you are worth? Just to say, "I'm good but I'll be a martyr". Sorry, money IS a reward. And being great at something is a reward. They go hand in hand.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    That is VALUE. Pretty women ( or those who want to be) pay. A cosmetic surgeon is rewarded for his perceived skill. If he didn't perform he wouldn't get paid well. James Andrews, the orthopedic guy, makes a fortune because he is good.
    Ambulance chasers (though despicable, by me anyway) create value for their clients. They also have a VERY good education by and large. They have skills that are in demand.
    I earned a Silver Star for combat once. That got me zip at the time. Later it made me a fortune. Value recognized.
    Many actors and singers may be categorized as trash. But someone values them and hence they are rewared for their talent. People need to understand that if you establish value, you get money and reward. Just because you or I do not think highly of someone means nothing. The market DOES dictate. Those with value get rewarded.
    Do you work for free? Or for a lot less than you are worth? Just to say, "I'm good but I'll be a martyr". Sorry, money IS a reward. And being great at something is a reward. They go hand in hand.
    Absolutely but establishing value has an awful lot to do with high society sets values and lets face any conservative person understands that our societies values are a complete mess right now.

    Markets which are highly efficient over time can be wildly out of whack in almost any time period.

  12. #72
    "Man does not live on beer alone. Beer, women, and pretzels maybe!"

    Author Unknown




  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Absolutely but establishing value has an awful lot to do with high society sets values and lets face any conservative person understands that our societies values are a complete mess right now.

    Markets which are highly efficient over time can be wildly out of whack in almost any time period.

    Of course things are a mess. But you adapt and adjust to make the best of it.
    You do what needs to be done for yourself and yours. And you do it ethically and without screwing other people. Morality is still important. You need to do things the right way as well as doing the best you can.
    Criminals or crooks with money are obviously the exeption to my thesis.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    True achievements ARE being a good spouse and parent. There is no arguement there. That responsibility goes without saying. It is a given.
    Like honesty, fidelity and lawfulness. Basic stuff.
    I perceive my primary responsibilty as to care for my family. I first provide for them now with a good environment, direction for my children and good education. Then I provide security for them financially. I have found that people perform at their best when they know they have a little money behind them. They are not afraid to be bold or decisive in decision making. They may still have a little fear of failure (and that's good) but they are protected. Knowing that I , my wife and all my children are protected for the REST OF OUR LIVES is to me important. I would hope others would have a similar goal.
    By the way, what's with the anti wealth? As I understand YOU may be the richest guy on JI. LOL
    I'm not anti-wealth and agree with your above post, once you have a solid footing financially it can free you up in many ways.

    You and I are in agreement.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post

    Our society is based on achievement. Period. Achievement is rewarded with money. Periosd. Only a complete idiot would dispute that. Or a person who just fails.
    A lot of our "achievers" have inherited their money/power.

    Take a look at 4 of the last 5 GOP Presidential nominees. Romney, McCain, Bush and Bush were all from powerful families. Dole was the exception.

    The GOP likes to talk up our Merit based society but they rarely select a person who was not born into an elite family.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    A lot of our "achievers" have inherited their money/power.

    Take a look at 4 of the last 5 GOP Presidential nominees. Romney, McCain, Bush and Bush were all from powerful families. Dole was the exception.

    The GOP likes to talk up our Merit based society but they rarely select a person who was not born into an elite family.
    Most wealth in the US is not inherited. that is a fact. look at the Forbes 400 as an example, 2 families ( Walton's and Mars) if removed leave only self made billionaires in the top 20. The Walton money and Mars money is relatively speaking, new money too. Walton had less than 10 stores in the early 60s and is one generation old now.

  17. #77
    It kills me that people love to point fingers at the "rich", while meanwhile if you have spare change in your pocket you're richer than 75% of the world.

    How about practicing what you preach? If you think the rich should give more, and relatively speaking you ARE rich, spend less time pointing fingers at someone else and more making a change yourself.

    I purposely didn't quote anyone on this post because it's not directed toward anyone personally. It's more of a general sentiment that I wish more people adhered to . . .

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by southparkcpa View Post
    Most wealth in the US is not inherited. that is a fact. look at the Forbes 400 as an example, 2 families ( Walton's and Mars) if removed leave only self made billionaires in the top 20. The Walton money and Mars money is relatively speaking, new money too. Walton had less than 10 stores in the early 60s and is one generation old now.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m9iXlOHtzV4

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    A lot of our "achievers" have inherited their money/power.

    Take a look at 4 of the last 5 GOP Presidential nominees. Romney, McCain, Bush and Bush were all from powerful families. Dole was the exception.

    The GOP likes to talk up our Merit based society but they rarely select a person who was not born into an elite family.


    McCain paid a very high price for his "powerful" family. He earned where he was ultimately. Bush Sr. also as he fought in battle and almost paid the price. He earned his ultimate job through many years of work in the gov
    And are you suggesting that Romney has not been amazingly successful in his own right? He built quite an organization.
    GWB did benefit from his father's position. So did JFK.

  20. #80
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    The free-market is far from perfect. But is also far better than the alternative.

    It is every man's duty to make sure his children have a better life than they had. Therefore, I cannot hold it against people for being born rich. Somewhere along the line someone in that family started from scratch. As long as they pay it forward to the next generation then they have done their duty.

    It sucks having to be the first one to "make it" but everyone can "make it" if they want it bad enough. Of course people have different starting points, but that is life and if you don't get over it you are never going to get anywhere.

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