Wealth distribution in US.

[palmetto defender]

of course not, I was a child to a single parent without a high school diploma, I could do very little to help myself. But generationally, it can be done. I grew up on welfare and lived on free lunches and food stamps until I was about 14 when I got my first real job and understand poverty fairly well. The government programs made available to me were invaluable also have an element of crippling a person.

The single best thing someone can do to not be poor is get a job and work at becoming very good at it. start as a plumbers assistant or a cook. the best 20 percent in any profession make significantly more than their peers.

I am convinced that without a chnage in behavior may poor will stay poor.

In fact this goes for middle class as well. I see it in my clients. Those making say 150K working for a bank buying a 600K house. IMO, that's a recipe for potential problems. yet I have many who make 600K and buy the same house.

This is the guy who actually gets it more than anybody. A tough LI guy who actually worked hard and got it done. No crying about the "start", just working. I was not quite as poor but had very little early on.
It's all about choices. If you want to make money and be rich, it really is not hard at all. Not saying a 1%er - that is currently $17 mill in assets and $480/year income. You earn what you are worth in this world. If you are poor, question your worth. If you are rich, you either have worth or had a worthy parent.

[Axil]

This is the guy who actually gets it more than anybody. A tough LI guy who actually worked hard and got it done. No crying about the "start", just working. I was not quite as poor but had very little early on.
It's all about choices. If you want to make money and be rich, it really is not hard at all. Not saying a 1%er - that is currently $17 mill in assets and $480/year income.

Agree with all this.

You earn what you are worth in this world. If you are poor, question your worth. If you are rich, you either have worth or had a worthy parent.

Here i think you start to overstate things.

There are lottery winners, who haven't earned any of their wealth. There are brilliant minds in business and science who have had misfortune befall them even having made sound decisions. Some of them will recover, some may not. There's the guy whose child has cancer, and even though he has insurance his out of pocket expenses are bankrupting him.

Those were extremes, let's get into more typical circumstances. There's the guy who got passed over for a promotion even though he as more deserving. Maybe it was because of office politics, maybe there was racism or sexism involved. Hell maybe he was just ugly, Yes that makes a difference.

Capitalism works great, it is the best economic system mankind has ever tried, but let's not make it something it's not. Your wealth is not an absolute quantifier of your value. It is however a strong indicator.

[southparkcpa]

Agree with all this.

Here i think you start to overstate things.

There are lottery winners, who haven't earned any of their wealth. There are brilliant minds in business and science who have had misfortune befall them even having made sound decisions. Some of them will recover, some may not. There's the guy whose child has cancer, and even though he has insurance his out of pocket expenses are bankrupting him.

Those were extremes, let's get into more typical circumstances. There's the guy who got passed over for a promotion even though he as more deserving. Maybe it was because of office politics, maybe there was racism or sexism involved. Hell maybe he was just ugly, Yes that makes a difference.

Capitalism works great, it is the best economic system mankind has ever tried, but let's not make it something it's not. Your wealth is not an absolute quantifier of your value. It is however a strong indicator.

The definition of poor is

NOT HAVING SOMETHING TO SELL.....

[Axil]

The definition of poor is

NOT HAVING SOMETHING TO SELL.....

Well hell, I've still got blood and semen, so i must be doing ok.

[Brooklyn Jet]

If you are poor, question your worth. If you are rich, you either have worth or had a worthy parent.

With all due respect, for a supposedly intelligent self-made individual, this is one of the most simplistic, misguided generalizations I've read in a long time.

[palmetto defender]

Agree with all this.

Here i think you start to overstate things.

There are lottery winners, who haven't earned any of their wealth. There are brilliant minds in business and science who have had misfortune befall them even having made sound decisions. Some of them will recover, some may not. There's the guy whose child has cancer, and even though he has insurance his out of pocket expenses are bankrupting him.

Those were extremes, let's get into more typical circumstances. There's the guy who got passed over for a promotion even though he as more deserving. Maybe it was because of office politics, maybe there was racism or sexism involved. Hell maybe he was just ugly, Yes that makes a difference.

Capitalism works great, it is the best economic system mankind has ever tried, but let's not make it something it's not. Your wealth is not an absolute quantifier of your value. It is however a strong indicator.

In all fairness, there are not THAT many lottery winners.
As far as office politics: I must say that IS part of a job. There is more to doing one's job than JUST knowing the particulars. Presentation, communication, cooperation, the ability to get along, negotiating skills, compromising. All of these contribute to one's value. Dressing well and not looking ugly doesn't hurt, though plenty of ugly guys out there. see Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs. LOL.
Racial and sex discrimination are just wrong, though I admit they exist. In those cases, get out and test your value. real value is always evident.

See cpa's post right before mine.

[palmetto defender]

With all due respect, for a supposedly intelligent self-made individual, this is one of the most simplistic, misguided generalizations I've read in a long time.

Why? It is absolute fact. If you are poor, you have established no real value or else someone would reward you for what you have.
If you are rich, someone HAS rewarded you. Or as noted, your parent.

Basic logic. Exeption as axil noted - the lottery, few and far between.

If you are poor you have no one to blame but yourself. Lack of effort somwhere along the line.

[chirorob]

Why? It is absolute fact. If you are poor, you have established no real value or else someone would reward you for what you have.
If you are rich, someone HAS rewarded you. Or as noted, your parent.

Basic logic. Exeption as axil noted - the lottery, few and far between.

If you are poor you have no one to blame but yourself. Lack of effort somwhere along the line.

Actually, most lottery people go broke. If they have no sense of worth, they have a tendency to blow the money.

I like what CPA said. Find a job and get really good at it. Be a plumber, get good at it, start your own business, grow it, make it as big as you want. I know a guy out here, started as an iron worker. Got really good, became a foreman. Got tired of the politics, started his own company, got noticed, picked up a big job. Did great work on that job, got a nice contract building cell phone towers. Now worth about a billion dollars, I don't think he's older than 45.

Real good at his job, very determined, didn't say "no" when new projects were presented that he didn't know how to do. He said, "I can do that", then figured it out and did a great job. Very nice guy to boot, not pretentious, but I would absolutely NOT piss him off. He is a real Honey Badger.

[palmetto defender]

Actually, most lottery people go broke. If they have no sense of worth, they have a tendency to blow the money.

I like what CPA said. Find a job and get really good at it. Be a plumber, get good at it, start your own business, grow it, make it as big as you want. I know a guy out here, started as an iron worker. Got really good, became a foreman. Got tired of the politics, started his own company, got noticed, picked up a big job. Did great work on that job, got a nice contract building cell phone towers. Now worth about a billion dollars, I don't think he's older than 45.

Real good at his job, very determined, didn't say "no" when new projects were presented that he didn't know how to do. He said, "I can do that", then figured it out and did a great job. Very nice guy to boot, not pretentious, but I would absolutely NOT piss him off. He is a real Honey Badger.

Totally agree. You do not need to be a 1%er to be successful. Work really hard (and smart) and be the best and you will be recognized and rise.
It's not going to happen at 23 but takes years of constant effort.
ANYBODY can be successful. But it helps if you start young (say age 6, no kidding) with being educated and building that foundation of knowledge. Education is always key - even if your career choice is a trade.

[southparkcpa]

Totally agree. You do not need to be a 1%er to be successful. Work really hard (and smart) and be the best and you will be recognized and rise.It's not going to happen at 23 but takes years of constant effort.
ANYBODY can be successful. But it helps if you start young (say age 6, no kidding) with being educated and building that foundation of knowledge. Education is always key - even if your career choice is a trade.

Agreed. The number one complaint of my clients is the employee work ethic. They dont have the commitment to quality etc. Its easier now than ever to rise to the top as our workforce has become watered down.

[PlumberKhan]

More people posting during working hours about how hard they work.

It never ends. Double jointed enough to fellate themselves. It's actually really impressive.

[chirorob]

More people posting during working hours about how hard they work.

It never ends. Double jointed enough to fellate themselves. It's actually really impressive.

Thanks.

It's called lunch. I like it. Also, I have a very start and stop job, be real busy, then have a breather, then be real busy. I don't feel guilty about not having to work 60 hours a week anymore.

[PlumberKhan]

Thanks.

It's called lunch. I like it. Also, I have a very start and stop job, be real busy, then have a breather, then be real busy. I don't feel guilty about not having to work 60 hours a week anymore.

Lol.


Lunch break.


Must be nice.

[long island leprechaun]

This is the guy who actually gets it more than anybody. A tough LI guy who actually worked hard and got it done. No crying about the "start", just working. I was not quite as poor but had very little early on.
It's all about choices. If you want to make money and be rich, it really is not hard at all. Not saying a 1%er - that is currently $17 mill in assets and $480/year income. You earn what you are worth in this world. If you are poor, question your worth. If you are rich, you either have worth or had a worthy parent.

If you are rich, you either have worth or had a worthy parent.

I had to look twice to be sure I really read that. Perhaps the most ill-formed and frankly idiotic statement I have ever read here. So Mother Theresa was of no worth. Van Gogh was of no worth. Gaughin of no worth. Mozart, of no worth, and the list goes on and on. Anyone who measures human worth in dollars is frankly the most shallow idiot on the planet. As W.C. Fields once said, "A rich man is a poor man with money." Poverty of the imagination is a far greater failing than an empty pocket.

Palmetto, something has happened to you. You were never this cynical, angry, and arrogant. Why the rage? Seriously.

[intelligentjetsfan]

If you are rich, you either have worth or had a worthy parent.

I had to look twice to be sure I really read that. Perhaps the most ill-formed and frankly idiotic statement I have ever read here. So Mother Theresa was of no worth. Van Gogh was of no worth. Gaughin of no worth. Mozart, of no worth, and the list goes on and on. Anyone who measures human worth in dollars is frankly the most shallow idiot on the planet. As W.C. Fields once said, "A rich man is a poor man with money." Poverty of the imagination is a far greater failing than an empty pocket.

Palmetto, something has happened to you. You were never this cynical, angry, and arrogant. Why the rage? Seriously.

To the far-right mind people like Gandhi or Mother Theresa do not make sense. A hard capitalist cannot rationalize men and women who give unselfishly and do not value their life based on how much they are worth in dollars and cents. Its much like the computer in the movie War Games; it could not understand the no-win situation until they taught it tic-tac-toe.

[southparkcpa]

To the far-right mind people like Gandhi or Mother Theresa do not make sense. A hard capitalist cannot rationalize men and women who give unselfishly and do not value their life based on how much they are worth in dollars and cents. Its much like the computer in the movie War Games; it could not understand the no-win situation until they taught it tic-tac-toe.

Totally cynical and incorrect. My experience has shown that those who work hard give back in spades. I sit on the board of 2 non profits and pro bono for 2 others. I see the generosity 1st hand.

[intelligentjetsfan]

Totally cynical and incorrect. My experience has shown that those who work hard give back in spades. I sit on the board of 2 non profits and pro bono for 2 others. I see the generosity 1st hand.

Our personal opinions are shaped, at least in part, by our personal experiences. How can someone's personal experiences be incorrect?

Anyway, it has been my experience, through various conversations and interactions with people that I would consider to have hard-core capitalist beliefs, that they take a 'Darwinistic' view towards people in relation to economics. There is a definite 'survival of the fittest' tone that manifests when topics such as health care (as one example) are discussed (an example of this 'tone' may be some of the responses from our friend palmetto in this thread). That is not to say that hard core capitalists are not giving or decent people. On the contrary, my uncle and father-in-law are two people that are hard core capitalists. But their beliefs relating to economics and poverty would not be confused with those of Gandhi or Mother Theresa, lol.

[southparkcpa]

Our personal opinions are shaped, at least in part, by our personal experiences. How can someone's personal experiences be incorrect?

Anyway, it has been my experience, through various conversations and interactions with people that I would consider to have hard-core capitalist beliefs, that they take a 'Darwinistic' view towards people in relation to economics. There is a definite 'survival of the fittest' tone that manifests when topics such as health care (as one example) are discussed (an example of this 'tone' may be some of the responses from our friend palmetto in this thread). That is not to say that hard core capitalists are not giving or decent people. On the contrary, my uncle and father-in-law are two people that are hard core capitalists. But their beliefs relating to economics and poverty would not be confused with those of Gandhi or Mother Theresa, lol.

I am basing mine on charitable giving and give back.

I am a believer that 80 percent of peoplehave shaped their destiny. 10 percent on both ends (poor and rich) have unique circumstances.

That said..I am somewhat of a Darwin believer but my experience is that the wealthy give back in a big way.

[cr726]

I am basing mine on charitable giving and give back.

I am a believer that 80 percent of peoplehave shaped their destiny. 10 percent on both ends (poor and rich) have unique circumstances.

That said..I am somewhat of a Darwin believer but my experience is that the wealthy give back in a big way.

Honest question. If you take away the tax benefits of charitable giving, do you think the same rich people are giving the same or close amount of time and/or money to charity?

[FF2®]

Honest question. If you take away the tax benefits of charitable giving, do you think the same rich people are giving the same or close amount of time and/or money to charity?

Some would, some wouldn't. We can't talk about "the rich" and "the poor" as if they are all the same. Some rich hoard every nickel, some give generously. I've also seen people donate $20 who I know really needed it.

I don't think giving is totally "generosity" either. I know for me I have to admit it makes me feel good, boosts my ego a bit. The best thing is to donate locally where you can see results. The feeling you get when you see something good come to fruition is immeasurable.

I can't imagine NOT giving back in some way, whether it be time or money.