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Thread: More teachers union hypocracy

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Are you a teacher? (I honestly don't know)

    I've taught in two different "struggling districts" and I've seen plenty of parents (especially single moms) who do care but flat out cannot control their child. I don't blame the parent for the child's refusal to learn, but I also see the negative impact it has on the rest of the class and that is flat out unacceptable. If you don't agree with charter schools to give the "good kids" a chance, you at least have to agree to some sort of alternative education for the troubled ones because they're not doing anything but wasting tax payer $$ being in class and keeping classmates from getting the education that money is supposed to provide.

    Somewhere along the way schools became foster homes. That might be good for the troubles that ail our society, but it has destroyed what we once called education . . .
    So take all the good students out of inner city public schools and put them into charters with teachers who need no other qualification other than "being friends" with the CEO who funds the school and leave the struggling, violent and abusive students for the qualified teachers?

    Why allow big business to exploit children in the inner city especially when their schools dont have to follow the same rules as the rest? Do you really think Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg care about public schools or is it more likely that they would love to sell their respective products as the "best way for students to learn?" Gates and Zuckerberg's inventions changed our world but in no way does that qualify them to run a school and understand the needs of young people.

    How about this idea; We attack the problems of the students of the public school system in the inner cities like we do Afghanistan. Seems like society has no problem with the amount of money we spend through taxes on war half way around the world and ignore the educational issues of our citizens we have right here in out own country. We would have with the same "open check book" approach, like in Afghanistan, until the public schools succeeds keeping the big business (charter schools) and high controversy out of the picture while keeping qualified public school teachers in front of students.

    Lets take all the money we use on excessive testing and focus it on getting the correct setting for unruly and challenging students. This will help the struggling negative behavior type students while the excelling students will not be short changed. Lets get back to a more normal testing system with most students taking one "regents at the end of the school year" type blue print that seems more reasonable and less of a money making scam that our current testing system has become. Currently our students are being tested, pre tested, post tested and test prepped for standardized tests most of the schol year. Its beyond maddening and demoralizing for students and teachers.

    No Child Left Behind, Race To The Top, Common Core Standards, and the Charlotte Danielson Framework Evaluation System are all money making scams through testing. These educational policies are vendettas against ALL teachers whether they are proficient or struggling.

    These policies have created a severe wedge between teachers and administrators and this type of atmosphere is toxic for students.

    Sadly, public schools became "foster homes" because our politicians do not send their own kids to them.

    Public school is mostly for new immigrants and the poor in the inner city and they have the least power in our society.
    Last edited by copernicus; 03-10-2013 at 06:11 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    So take all the good students out of inner city public schools and put them into charters with teachers who need no other qualification other than "being friends" with the CEO who funds the school and leave the struggling, violent and abusive students for the qualified teachers?

    Why allow big business to exploit children in the inner city especially when their schools dont have to follow the same rules as the rest? Do you really think Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg care about public schools or is it more likely that they would love to sell their respective products as the "best way for students to learn?" Gates and Zuckerberg's inventions changed our world but in no way does that qualify them to run a school and understand the needs of young people.

    How about this idea; We attack the problems of the students of the public school system in the inner cities like we do Afghanistan. Seems like society has no problem with the amount of money we spend through taxes on war half way around the world and ignore the educational issues of our citizens we have right here in out own country. We would have with the same "open check book" approach, like in Afghanistan, until the public schools succeeds keeping the big business (charter schools) and high controversy out of the picture while keeping qualified public school teachers in front of students.

    Lets take all the money we use on excessive testing and focus it on getting the correct setting for unruly and challenging students. This will help the struggling negative behavior type students while the excelling students will not be short changed. Lets get back to a more normal testing system with most students taking one "regents at the end of the school year" type blue print that seems more reasonable and less of a money making scam that our current testing system has become. Currently our students are being tested, pre tested, post tested and test prepped for standardized tests most of the schol year. Its beyond maddening and demoralizing for students and teachers.

    No Child Left Behind, Race To The Top, Common Core Standards, and the Charlotte Danielson Framework Evaluation System are all money making scams through testing. These educational policies are vendettas against ALL teachers whether they are proficient or struggling.

    These policies have created a severe wedge between teachers and administrators and this type of atmosphere is toxic for students.

    Sadly, public schools became "foster homes" because our politicians do not send their own kids to them.

    Public school is mostly for new immigrants and the poor in the inner city and they have the least power in our society.
    Not sure if this post agrees with mine or argues with it.

    Either way, I'm tired of the "troubled" student getting all the attention at the expense of the one who's willing to work. If removing the hard worker and putting them in a better environment will benefit him/her (ie charter schools), I'm all for it. If removing the troubled ones creates the better environment, I'm fine with that too. Either way, there's NO WAY the taxpayer is currently getting his money's worth. It's not the teachers' fault, but it still needs to be dealt with by whatever means necessary . . .

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    You can't spell the word HYPOCRISY wrong in your thread title and attack education.
    +1,000,000

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Not sure if this post agrees with mine or argues with it.

    Either way, I'm tired of the "troubled" student getting all the attention at the expense of the one who's willing to work. If removing the hard worker and putting them in a better environment will benefit him/her (ie charter schools), I'm all for it. If removing the troubled ones creates the better environment, I'm fine with that too. Either way, there's NO WAY the taxpayer is currently getting his money's worth. It's not the teachers' fault, but it still needs to be dealt with by whatever means necessary . . .
    I agree that teachers and cooperative students should not have to deal with troubled students. There are too many troubled students who go to school to destroy any sense of learning in the classroom.

    I would argue that the "troubled" student is given no attention from administrators and higher ups. There is no plan to help the cooperative students and teachers when it comes to matters of disruptive students. The teacher is left out to dry and deal with them on their own. No real discipline, cant really suspend them. You know the deal Occh, complain too much and administrators will throw the ball right back in the teacher's court and claim that the teacher has poor classroom management skills.

    I disagree that charter schools are the way to go for cooperative and gifted students. Just too much controversy and scamming.

    The country needs to focus on fixing ALL public schools without hidden profit making agendas and stop pitting administrators and teachers against one another. All the testing, evaluating, and threats of firing is doing is stressing out the whole system and the children are losing out.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    I agree that teachers and cooperative students should not have to deal with troubled students. There are too many troubled students who go to school to destroy any sense of learning in the classroom.

    I would argue that the "troubled" student is given no attention from administrators and higher ups. There is no plan to help the cooperative students and teachers when it comes to matters of disruptive students. The teacher is left out to dry and deal with them on their own. No real discipline, cant really suspend them. You know the deal Occh, complain too much and administrators will throw the ball right back in the teacher's court and claim that the teacher has poor classroom management skills.

    I disagree that charter schools are the way to go for cooperative and gifted students. Just too much controversy and scamming.

    The country needs to focus on fixing ALL public schools without hidden profit making agendas and stop pitting administrators and teachers against one another. All the testing, evaluating, and threats of firing is doing is stressing out the whole system and the children are losing out.
    But what is the solution then? Giving teachers/administrations blind autonomy definitely isn't the answer. There needs to be some benchmark for education.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCITSCAT View Post
    +1,000,000
    Thanks for your valuable contribution.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    But what is the solution then? Giving teachers/administrations blind autonomy definitely isn't the answer. There needs to be some benchmark for education.
    Politicians who have an agenda with unions will have you believe that the schools system had blind autonomy where everything goes. The reality is that it was never as bad as it was portrayed. The school system had reasonable benchmarks in place with regents exams at the end of the year and state exams in certain grades. It is now at the point of absurdity with testing companies who control just about every facet of education. Testing companies that often have little no no experience in education.

    When I look around my school I see mostly teachers who care. There are very few teachers in my school (110 in total) that I believe shouldn't be in front of children. I believe the issues of our school system have been highly exaggerated when it comes to matters of uncaring teachers. Teachers are asked to have a bachelors, masters, and 30 credits in their subject matter. Teachers are also asked to take and pass three major (3 hrs) teacher tests. Seems like there is a reasonable amount of extended education that teachers are asked of. Is it reasonable to think that the majority of teachers with all these qualifications would turn out so bad? Seems like there is another agenda.

    I believe that the school system attacked by those in government who would benefit with not having to deal with unions. In a recession politicians will stoop to any level over money, or should I say the money they can steal from the common workers. Without those unions in the way, politicians could higher and fire teachers simply because they want to save money, money of the backs of children. They also can continue the money train of testing, pre testing, post testing, test prep and of of school tutoring connected to the testing companies.

    What is happening currently in our school system is disgusting, big business in the form of testing companies have ruined education. Politicians and testing companies (often connected to politicians) are in each others pockets to a level that most do not comprehend unless you are in the thick of it.

    Society will wake up eventually. Its a shame that an entire generation over the past 10 years plus has had to big business's version of education disguised with names like The Common Core Standards, No Child Left Behind, and Race to the top.
    Last edited by copernicus; 03-12-2013 at 10:43 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Politicians who have an agenda with unions will have you believe that the schools system had blind autonomy where everything goes. The reality is that it was never as bad as it was portrayed. The school system had reasonable benchmarks in place with regents exams at the end of the year and stet exams in certain grades. It is now at the point of absurdity with testing companies who control just about every facet of education. Testing companies that often have little no no experience in education.

    When I look around my school I see mostly teachers who care. There are very few teachers in my school (110 in total) that I believe shouldnt be in front of children. I believe the issues of our school system have been highly exaggerated when it comes to matters of uncaring teachers. Teachers are asked to have a bachelors, maters, and 30 credits in their subject matter. Teachers are also asked to take and pass three major (3 hrs) teacher tests. Seems like there is a reasonable amount of extended education that teachers are asked of.

    I believe that the school system attacked by those in government who would benefit with not having to deal with unions. In a recession politicians will stoop to any level just over money, and this is all that it is about. Without those unions in the way, politicians could higher and fire teachers simply because they want to save money, money of the backs of children. They also can continue the money train of testing, pre testing, post testing, test prep and of of school tutoring connected to the testing companies.

    What is happening currently in our school system is disgusting, big business in the form of testing companies have ruined education. Politicians and testing companies (often connected to politicians) are in each others pockets to a level that most do not comprehend unless you are in the thick of it.

    Society will wake up eventually. Its a shame that an entire generation over the past 10 years plus has had to big business's version of education disguised with names like The Common Core Standards, No Child Left Behind, and Race to the top.
    You are just rehashing your rhetoric. I am asking what the solution is for inner city school problems. My experience with public schools as a student, son of public school teachers and currently as a father is a positive one. I don't think the problems in educating the inner city come close to bleeding into the suburbs. Detroit and other major cities have proven that more money is not the answer. You say Philadelphia's failure with Charter schools damns that method. Personally I like NJ's recent move to a school choice process. I think choice and competition is what is best for everything.

    I agree with you that parents are a major issue but it is a mostly unchangeable one. I also agree that most teachers are probably good teachers and at the least have their hearts in the right place but to me that doesn't mean that the bottom 10% shouldn't be let go.

    I also think that many of the policies like No Child Left Behind were put in place with well meant intentions which can be supported by the nonpartisan support it had at its signing. Sadly government just proves again and again that the unintentional results outweigh the original goal. I also think that many of these things you complain about were created in a reaction to a union that got too strong and out of control as is evidenced by the many stories of teachers in NYC being paid to not work. I think it would be very difficult to do national testing just within the government and I think it is important to have benchmarks for schools to reach for.

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