Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 113

Thread: Our Draft strategy

  1. #81
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    LOL, what a child.

    So tell me Mr football player and builder of NFL franchises (after all, you did claim that if you took a guard you either never played football--which I did--and don't know how to build an NFL team--which I don't but neither do you), here's MY question.

    So you have 4 pass-rushers--not ONE of them is a sure thing--each one has an issue or issues that could be their downfall--too small, can't play in space, too much of a project, serious medical situation, can't seal the edge, etc.

    So odds are two of them will be Hall of Famers and two of them are going to be busts.

    You gamble on one of them and it's 50-50 you're going to get a bust. You're a new GM Idzik and your team has holes ALL over the field--two huge needs are a pass rusher and fixing an awful offensive line.

    What do you do--choose the pass rusher that YOU--some kid thinks is going to be the right one?

    Why, because you sit in a basement and watch "tape"?

    My OPINION is you take Warmack, stick him between two pro-bowl caliber lineman and you have the makings of a dominant line for the next 5-6 years.

    YOUR opinion is you gamble and chance that you get a stud OR a bust.

    We can't risk the bust. This franchise can't risk another Gholston. It can't even risk another Bryan Thomas (who was a very productive Jet for years but was never a difference maker).

    I get that pass rusher is more important than a guard--of course.

    But the cost-benefit between a possible bust and someone you can plug in from day 1 and will dominate is a reasonable cal.

    Of course, you know which dpr is going to be great and which one isn't, right?

    That's why your mocks are all over ESPN and CBSSportsline and WalterFootball and all the other draft sites.

    You realize none of the REAL expert pickers can agree on who's going to be the stud and who's going to be the bust out of the dpr's right?

    Yeah, so lets gamble and leave the sure thing on the board so we can lament the next Jet QB who gets killed and the next running back who can't convert on just about any 3rd or 4th and short.

    Brilliant.

    _

    How is Warmack a known stud? The draft is a gamble. You can't name him a STUD LG. You don't know.

    Now, my debate; a stud pass rusher has infinitely more value than a stud Guard.

    The Jets are rebuilding, starting from scratch.

    1. QB
    2. PR
    3. LT
    4. CB
    5. WR

    Does a guard even come into the top 10 of importance?

    Our team is flawed head to toe. We have 0 pass rush, and that has hampered this team for years. Look at the recent Superbowl champs in football.. Look at them.

    Giants - JPP - Tuck - Osi
    Giants - Kiwanuka - Osi - Tuck - Strahan
    Ravens - Suggs - Kruger
    Packers - Matthews
    Steelers 2x - Harrison
    Colts - Freeney - Mathis

    In a 3-4 defense, you need a pass rusher at the LB position.

    Our OLB's look like Ricky Sapp and Garret McIntyre. Scary, right?

    Now, tell me what pass rusher you want in the 2nd round. Alex Okafor? I've seen the dude for a few years. Low risk, medium ceiling. Reminds me of a Paul Kruger. Effort pass rusher, a little stocky and big for the 3-4, and probably a liability in pass defense. Effort pass rusher.

    Will Montgomery? Meh, coaching staff sh*t on the guy. I'm high on work ethic, and Montgomery doesn't have the ambition you need on the pro level.

    I love Jamie Collins, so I'll let that pass, however has has huge bust potential.

    Now, look at the Guards.

    Justin Pugh - A riser, and guy that I always really liked. Really underrated, shined at Senior Bowl.

    Barret Jones - Most impressive player for Alabama on their line. Always stood out to me. Can play any position on the line.

    Warford - BIG athletic guy, dominates the line.

    Long has tons of potential. Really athletic at 6'7. Great pulling guard.


    I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a Jarvis-Pugh or Jordan-Jones combo over a Warmack-Okafor.

    You need a pass rush to win in the NFL.

    A front 7 of:
    Wilkerson - Ellis - Coples
    Jordan - Harris - Davis - FA

    Can be potent. Defense wins championships.

  2. #82
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,229
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I don't see the correlation between Coples and Mingo. Yeah, they had down years during their last season in college, but that's it.

    In September of 2011, pretty much everyone had Coples as only 2nd to Andrew Luck in that upcoming draft class.

    IMO, Coples was a far better prospect than Mingo coming out.
    Well I'm not gonna compare them as prospects. I'm only talking about their situation.

    You're right about Coples. But in September of 2012, Mingo was looked at as a Top 5 prospect. Some thought he would play his way into the #1 pick.

    Point being that having an off year production wise won't always have a negative effect at rhe next level.

  3. #83
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by King P View Post
    Well I'm not gonna compare them as prospects. I'm only talking about their situation.

    You're right about Coples. But in September of 2012, Mingo was looked at as a Top 5 prospect. Some thought he would play his way into the #1 pick.

    Point being that having an off year production wise won't always have a negative effect at rhe next level.
    Mingo's frame just scares the piss out of me.

    The guy consistently played between 230-235 at LSU.

    If he packs on weight, does that diminish his biggest strength, his speed and explosiveness? That's the big question.

  4. #84
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,293
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Then I start seriously looking at Jones (if he's still on the board), Cooper and even Eifert.

    I'm not taking a passrusher at #9 for the sole purpose of taking one.

    History tells us that at least half of these guys will be total busts. Odds are, only 1 or MAYBE 2 studs will emerge from this crop of tweeners.
    So you are telling me that in your mind, that TE and that other OG is a better option than any of the pass rushers i prefer. I happen to like Jarvis jones as an OLber and would take him at 9. I would take Ansah at 9 or Deon Jordan, but not Eifert, and not Cooper.

  5. #85
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    By the way, if we had the 13th pick via the Revis trade, I'd prefer to trade down, but would be happy with Cooper/Warmack. Cooper > Warmack, by the way.

    We need a Pass Rush, and I love the value at 9 with Jarvis, Dion, and even Mingo.

  6. #86
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,229
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Mingo's frame just scares the piss out of me.

    The guy consistently played between 230-235 at LSU.

    If he packs on weight, does that diminish his biggest strength, his speed and explosiveness? That's the big question.
    Mingo came into the combine weighing 250. And he still looked pretty quick and agile. It wont diminish him at all.

    And if he's in our system, he will play standing up. Give him 2 extra steps of space with his speed and explosiveness, and let the highlight reel commence.

  7. #87
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    So you are telling me that in your mind, that TE and that other OG is a better option than any of the pass rushers i prefer. I happen to like Jarvis jones as an OLber and would take him at 9. I would take Ansah at 9 or Deon Jordan, but not Eifert, and not Cooper.
    The only OLB prospect that I'm sold on being an impact player is Jones, and that's if his health holds up. Pretty big "if".

    I'm not sold on Ansah, period. Especially in a 3-4 scheme.

    Dion Jordan seems like a great athlete who is a jack of all trades but master of none in the mold of a Bryan Thomas or Manny Lawson.

    Mingo seems like he'll get eaten alive at the next level and was extremely inconsistent at LSU.


    So yeah, I'm not just going to sit here and say "take the best available passrusher at #9" because quite frankly, I'm not in love with any of them.


    Cooper is a shade below Warmack in my eyes and will be a damn good player for a number of years. And Eifert is a dependable receiver with the length to be a bigtime redzone threat at the next level. Very underrated as a blocker as well.

  8. #88
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,293
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    The only OLB prospect that I'm sold on being an impact player is Jones, and that's if his health holds up. Pretty big "if".

    I'm not sold on Ansah, period. Especially in a 3-4 scheme.

    Dion Jordan seems like a great athlete who is a jack of all trades but master of none in the mold of a Bryan Thomas or Manny Lawson.

    Mingo seems like he'll get eaten alive at the next level and was extremely inconsistent at LSU.


    So yeah, I'm not just going to sit here and say "take the best available passrusher at #9" because quite frankly, I'm not in love with any of them.


    Cooper is a shade below Warmack in my eyes and will be a damn good player for a number of years. And Eifert is a dependable receiver with the length to be a bigtime redzone threat at the next level. Very underrated as a blocker as well.
    you're a stuborn dude, but you do have conviction.

  9. #89
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    you're a stuborn dude, but you do have conviction.
    Hey, if we take someone like Ansah, Jordan or Mingo I won't be thrilled, but I'll trust the coaching staff.

    Rex Ryan knows a helluva lot more about defense than I do.

  10. #90
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,293
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Hey, if we take someone like Ansah, Jordan or Mingo I won't be thrilled, but I'll trust the coaching staff.

    Rex Ryan knows a helluva lot more about defense than I do.
    No, Not Mingo, they will run at him all day.

  11. #91
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    20,115
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post

    You don't know.
    Neither do you.

    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post

    Now, my debate; a stud pass rusher has infinitely more value than a stud Guard.
    True.

    But the chances of any one of those issue-laden "stud" pass rushers busting (or just being ok) is infinitely higher than Warmack busting (or just being ok). Especially when you fit him between 2 pro-bowlers.

    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post

    Defense wins championships.
    Wrong.

    Not in today's NFL.

    Baltimore just proved that.

    See, no need to throw out there the "you haven't played football" or "you don't know how to build an NFL team".

    It's all just opinion, no matter how high you think of your's, that's all it is.

    _

  12. #92
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    20,115
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post

    Cooper > Warmack, by the way.
    LOL.

    _

  13. #93
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,229
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    No, Not Mingo, they will run at him all day.
    They would do the same with Jones.

  14. #94
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,293
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by King P View Post
    They would do the same with Jones.
    I know, that's why i am not so hot to trott for him either..

  15. #95
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    No, Not Mingo, they will run at him all day.
    You could say the same for any of the 1st round passrushers except maybe Jordan.

  16. #96
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,229
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don't downgrade pass rushers that aren't good against the run. Just like I don't downgrade CB's for not being good tacklers. It's a luxury IMO.

  17. #97
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by King P View Post
    I don't downgrade pass rushers that aren't good against the run. Just like I don't downgrade CB's for not being good tacklers. It's a luxury IMO.
    I agree

    Just like I don't put a premium on passrushers that are adept at dropping back in coverage. I care if they can rush the passer first and foremost.

  18. #98
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    6,293
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    You could say the same for any of the 1st round passrushers except maybe Jordan.
    Not against Ansah and not against Moore. Once Jordan heals from his shoulder and gets in the weight room not against him either. Jordan is alot more physical than people give him credit .

  19. #99
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    the 80s
    Posts
    8,068
    Post Thanks / Like
    Can we all just agree that if by some miracle, Floyd found his way to #9, that it wouldn't even be a discussion, he's a jet?

  20. #100
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by GenoT View Post
    They had Jordon covering some wide recievers at Oregon.When the guy was sent after the QB, he looked almost as explosive as Mingo or Jones.To me Jordons upside is through the roof. Ansah's upside is too, but i worry about him growing out of the position.Already at 270, 5 years from now he could be at 290lbs??????
    +1

    People forget Rex needs his OLB to be flexible which is why Pace actually was a good player for us but because of his contract and the fact he wasn't John Abraham as a pass rusher he got slated.BT too was very efficient in everything but sacking the QB....to me Jordan is everything that Rex wants plus the untapped potential to be an 8 sacks or more per year guy is there.

    His pursuit and wrap up tackling is insane and he's like a huge DB in coverage.If the guy just pinned back his ears every play at Oregon he'd probably have been up around 9 or 10 sacks.

    I would love DJ at 9

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us