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Thread: 180 School Days

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    180 School Days

    Anyone watch part I last night?

    Showed the challenges educators are up against when it comes to social economic matters and the ridiculous notion of over testing our kids.

    Part II on PBS Channel 13 tonight at 9 pm.


    http://180schooldays.org/?gclid=COWY...FaZQOgodXjkAsQ


    "To educators, Washington Metropolitan High School (DC Met) is an alternative school with a devoted staff. To district leaders, it is a failure. To many of the school’s students, it is home – a safe haven from sometimes unsparingly difficult lives. Whatever one’s vantage, 180 Days: A Year inside an American High School provides an intimate portrait of this fledgling school’s day-to-day stories, condensing a full school year – 180 days – into four hours (2 two-hour episodes).

    With a dynamic and charismatic young principal and five remarkable kids at the center of the story, 180 Days invites viewers in for an unprecedented first-hand look of life inside of a school that tries to meet the needs of some of our nation’s most challenged students. "
    Last edited by copernicus; 03-26-2013 at 12:57 PM.

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    The best way to help inner-city high school students is to offer/encourage them the opportunity to graduate as Juniors. Taking courses in the summer to get ahead.

    I went to a suburban HS and saw a lot of students graduate as Juniors and looking back I wish I did the same thing.

    I hated HS because I was bored to death. It's just too freakin' slow and too freakin' long. Same thing for college. I started taking college courses in the summer and LOVED it! I got a lot done quick!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by AlbanyJet View Post
    The best way to help inner-city high school students is to offer/encourage them the opportunity to graduate as Juniors. Taking courses in the summer to get ahead.

    I went to a suburban HS and saw a lot of students graduate as Juniors and looking back I wish I did the same thing.

    I hated HS because I was bored to death. It's just too freakin' slow and too freakin' long. Same thing for college. I started taking college courses in the summer and LOVED it! I got a lot done quick!!


    What's the rush to graduate? You can take plenty of challenging/advanced courses. They are offered (or should be).
    Had a great senior year in HS and college. Matured as a person and athlete. Performed my best in the classroom and on the field.
    enjoy the easy school life while you can. The real world is not as forgiving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    What's the rush to graduate? You can take plenty of challenging/advanced courses. They are offered (or should be).
    Had a great senior year in HS and college. Matured as a person and athlete. Performed my best in the classroom and on the field.
    enjoy the easy school life while you can. The real world is not as forgiving.
    I would recommend this to my kids or anyone who would ask though I have to admit, had I been given this option as a kid I would have been all over it. My senior year was fun. I had so many credits in my first 3 years I was only required to take 3 classes to graduate. I took Autoshop and some other "fun" classes which I look back on as my best classes in High School.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    I would recommend this to my kids or anyone who would ask though I have to admit, had I been given this option as a kid I would have been all over it. My senior year was fun. I had so many credits in my first 3 years I was only required to take 3 classes to graduate. I took Autoshop and some other "fun" classes which I look back on as my best classes in High School.

    Exactly. Though I did not have the same options for fun courses, my children did.
    College was different. I had an Army committment. Vietnam was raging. I was going but was not in any hurry. Had seen a couple of my upperclassmen return the wrong way. LOL.

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    180 days a year. 6 hrs a day. Is this show about working part-time?

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    I would solve that problem with a grenade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    180 days a year. 6 hrs a day. Is this show about working part-time?
    Right, bc test papers, essays, daily lesson plans, required work shops and higher education happen magically within the school day

    My school day starts at 8am and dismisses at 3:20. I am not a math teacher but I believe its more than 6 hrs a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Right, bc test papers, essays, daily lesson plans, required work shops and higher education happen magically within the school day

    My school day starts at 8am and dismisses at 3:20. I am not a math teacher but I believe its more than 6 hrs a day.
    Test papers, essays, and daily lesson plans can easily happen during the school day. You are NOT in the classroom from 8am until 3:20. There are free periods designed for just that sort of work. And if you have taught the same class before, you can re-use lesson plans and test from previous years. The material does not change that much.

    Workshops and higher education are part of all knowledge workers jobs. The only difference is that non-teachers have to study real subjects, not basket weaving and bubble gum chewing, just to accumulate credits for their automatic raises.

    And you are correct. 8am to 3:20pm is 7 and2/3rds hrs per day. Of course, that includes lunch and all free periods. I could be wrong, but I think that city HS and JHS teachers actually teach in front of students 4 periods a day. That would be approximately 3 hrs per day of actual teaching.

    But let's go with your number. Still just over 38 hrs a week, for 36 weeks a year. That would be almost 1380 hrs per year.

    Most knowledge workers these days are working 10 hr days, but again, lets use the 9 - 5 8 hr day for comparison. Of the 52 weeks, most people have 10 holidays, so we are down to 50 weeks. Most people start at 2 weeks vacation, but let's throw in an extra week for an average worker, so we are down to 47 weeks. 47 weeks times 40 hours per week = 1880 hrs per year.

    The difference is a little over 500 hrs, or 12.5 weeks, per year. As a percentage, teachers work approximately 26% less than a 9-5 job. Which, btw, don't exist. 9-5 jobs in the private sector have gone the way of the dinosaur.

    Of course this 73% part time job has other perks as well. YOU CAN"T GET FIRED. No pressure. Even if you molest a child, they only move you out of the classroom SO YOU DON"T HAVE TO TEACH AT ALL!

    So please stop crying about your guaranteed part-time job. Those of us who work for a living and pay for your unions excessive demands take offense.
    Last edited by GandWFan; 03-28-2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: spelling

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    I guess what I'm advocating for is Year Round School (YRS) with the option to graduate up to one year early:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year-round_school

    Year-round schooling (YRS) has been present from the 1800s. YRS first appeared in urban areas, because they were not tied to the agriculture cycle. The first towns that implemented YRS were as follows: Chicago, Boston, Washington D.C., Cleveland, Buffalo, and Detroit.

    Three types of year round schooling exist: single track, multitrack, and extended year. Most schools are on either a single track or multitrack system; the foremost difference between the two is that single track schedules allow all students to attend school at the same time, while multitrack systems divide students and teachers into various tracks with different instructional times and vacations.

    The single track schedule is the most prominent of the three types. These schools do not add additional days to their school year, but instead they incorporate shorter breaks throughout the year. Thus, a single track schedule simply arranges the traditional school year into different school days and break days.

    Multitrack multitrack schedule divides students into multiple tracks so that one group goes to school while another group takes vacation. Multitrack schedules reportedly bring many benefits to schools that use them. Some of these schools utilize multiple tracks to aid specific groups of students. Some schools place all grades of bilingual or gifted and talented classes on the same track so that all of these students attend school at the same time.

    The extended year schedule can act as either a single track or multitrack, but it adds 15 to 20 days to the total school year.

    Several different studies have been conducted to learn more about the attitudes of students who attend year-round schools. The majority of these studies show that students' attitudes towards school did significantly increase as they spent more time on a year-round schedule. Students who attend year-round school say that their calendar is more balanced than their peers who have a typical school calendar.

    Students who attend year-round schools typically do as well as or slightly better in school than their peers who attend a traditionally scheduled school.

    At-risk students are those who come from a low-income family, have a disability, are of an ethnic minority, or are influenced by something else that may cause them to perform poorly in school. In 1994, a study of three year-round schools showed a substantial gain in academic achievement for at-risk, low performing students. More frequent, short breaks provide struggling students more time for help. These breaks can be used for remedial courses, tutoring, and enrichment, if needed.

    Smarter students would have the ability to graduate faster by being enrolled during their vacation times to allow for lessons. Class sizes are reduced, creating better learning environments. Another plus for students is that instead of failing an entire year of school, a student would only fail 45 days on a 45-15 plan, making it so that the student doesn't fall behind as much as a traditional school calendar.

    Effect on Teachers and Administration. Studies show that even though around 50% of parents are in favor of the year-round schedule before it is implemented, almost 80% are in favor of it after the first year. Parents and families are able to still arrange daycare as well as vacations. The year round schedule provides more opportunities for family vacations. This schedule can also save families money because they are able to take vacations during off-peak times. Teachers would also be able to increase their income by teaching days of class on their vacations. Some teachers also favor Year-Round School, because they can have flexible contracts, as in different vacation times.

    Communities would save on costs since buildings that normally go unused for 2–3 months of the year would be put to use and old buildings would be closed to save costs. Less text books and equipment would be required, since fewer students would be attending at any point in time. The same idea applies to teachers, being that with fewer students in school fewer teachers are needed for the smaller student population.

    Effects on Students. There is research that suggests year-round schools have positive effects on students who are at risk for academic problems, including those from underprivileged backgrounds and those who are poor performers in school.

    Many people argue that students get bored during summer vacations, when there is much less activity and stimulation, so attending school for a year would be a benefit to them. However, many children need a break from school for time to relax and if they have to attend school for an entire year, they will have negative attitudes about learning and their education. Also, many school districts also do not have air conditioning, which can make for difficult learning opportunities.
    Last edited by AlbanyJet; 03-28-2013 at 11:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Test papers, essays, and daily lesson plans can easily happen during the school day. You are NOT in the classroom from 8am until 3:20. There are free periods designed for just that sort of work. And if you have taught the same class before, you can re-use lesson plans and test from previous years. The material does not change that much.

    Workshops and higher education are part of all knowledge workers jobs. The only difference is that non-teachers have to study real subjects, not basket weaving and bubble gum chewing, just to accumulate credits for their automatic raises.

    And you are correct. 8am to 3:20pm is 7 and2/3rds hrs per day. Of course, that includes lunch and all free periods. I could be wrong, but I think that city HS and JHS teachers actually teach in front of students 4 periods a day. That would be approximately 3 hrs per day of actual teaching.

    But let's go with your number. Still just over 38 hrs a week, for 36 weeks a year. That would be almost 1380 hrs per year.

    Most knowledge workers these days are working 10 hr days, but again, lets use the 9 - 5 8 hr day for comparison. Of the 52 weeks, most people have 10 holidays, so we are down to 50 weeks. Most people start at 2 weeks vacation, but let's throw in an extra week for an average worker, so we are down to 47 weeks. 47 weeks times 40 hours per week = 1880 hrs per year.

    The difference is a little over 500 hrs, or 12.5 weeks, per year. As a percentage, teachers work approximately 26% less than a 9-5 job. Which, btw, don't exist. 9-5 jobs in the private sector have gone the way of the dinosaur.

    Of course this 73% part time job has other perks as well. YOU CAN"T GET FIRED. No pressure. Even if you molest a child, they only move you out of the classroom SO YOU DON"T HAVE TO TEACH AT ALL!

    So please stop crying about your guaranteed part-time job. Those of us who work for a living and pay for your unions excessive demands take offense.
    Respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Almost every single point you make is false.

    FOUR periods a day? You are delusional,

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Almost every single point you make is false.

    FOUR periods a day? You are delusional,
    Hmmmm... Reading is fundamental.

    If you read my post, I said I was unsure about the number of periods actually spent teaching in front of students. I thought it was 4. Maybe it is 5. But you sound like an expert, so maybe you could shed some light on this. How many periods do NYC teachers spend in front of students?

    And while we are at it, specifically what else is wrong in my post? Since you don't add anything to football discussions except snarky remarks, maybe you can add value here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Hmmmm... Reading is fundamental.

    If you read my post, I said I was unsure about the number of periods actually spent teaching in front of students. I thought it was 4. Maybe it is 5. But you sound like an expert, so maybe you could shed some light on this. How many periods do NYC teachers spend in front of students?

    And while we are at it, specifically what else is wrong in my post? Since you don't add anything to football discussions except snarky remarks, maybe you can add value here.
    Frankly I've posted it over and over, what teachers actually do. My wife is a teacher do I have first hand knowledge. I'm sure the others are sick of it but heres a few....

    Teachers have ZERO "free periods"

    She starts with bus duty at 7:30 a.m and gets home usually around 4:30 after clubs (which she doesn't get paid to do).

    Teachers bring work home, sometimes 3 hrs worth, including ENDLESS paperwork now that "data" seems to be all the range. You simply would not believe the amount of data she needs to provide for each child/

    And the old myth that they cant be fired is so mis-leading. Three teachers in out system were fired this year. Most teachers LOVE dumping bad teachers.

    You would also be shocked at some parents today...all their kids are so special.

    Are summers off great? They sure are, (although she also teaches in the summer...her choice) and her benefits are great. But we all make career choice and there are plusses and minuses.

    She doesn't whine about it. She doesn't complain about pay, it is what it is. She didn't get into it for the money, but she also didn't get into it to be bashed. But I wish people had a more realistic picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Frankly I've posted it over and over, what teachers actually do. My wife is a teacher do I have first hand knowledge. I'm sure the others are sick of it but heres a few....

    Teachers have ZERO "free periods"

    She starts with bus duty at 7:30 a.m and gets home usually around 4:30 after clubs (which she doesn't get paid to do).

    Teachers bring work home, sometimes 3 hrs worth, including ENDLESS paperwork now that "data" seems to be all the range. You simply would not believe the amount of data she needs to provide for each child/

    And the old myth that they cant be fired is so mis-leading. Three teachers in out system were fired this year. Most teachers LOVE dumping bad teachers.

    You would also be shocked at some parents today...all their kids are so special.

    Are summers off great? They sure are, (although she also teaches in the summer...her choice) and her benefits are great. But we all make career choice and there are plusses and minuses.

    She doesn't whine about it. She doesn't complain about pay, it is what it is. She didn't get into it for the money, but she also didn't get into it to be bashed. But I wish people had a more realistic picture.
    FF2, I am sure your wife is a great teacher, and it is cool that she doesn't complain, but on this site and others this is the minority.

    If she has zero free periods then she must be an elementary school teacher. Even back in the Stone Age when I went to school, teachers in HS and Jr HS had free periods or study halls. I doubt that the teachers union would give that up.

    Agreed about the parents. You don't have to go into schools to see it. Just go to any mall.

    As to the OP, the easiest way to solve the inner city school problem is to just expel the disruptive kids that don't want to be there so they don't get in the way of those who actually want to learn. Not politically correct, I know. But it would work. Education is a privilege not a right.

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    180 School Days

    I have a handful of friends who are teachers. It is very much a full time job. But the summer off and holidays is a major perk. So it goes both ways.

    The problem with our education system is not the teachers. There are many more good teachers than bad ones. We only hear about the bad ones. The problem is the politics, the antiquated curriculum and the parents. School is not meant to be daycare and teachers aren't supposed to teach your kids morals and behavior and hygiene etc.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    I have a handful of friends who are teachers. It is very much a full time job. But the summer off and holidays is a major perk. So it goes both ways.

    The problem with our education system is not the teachers. There are many more good teachers than bad ones. We only hear about the bad ones. The problem is the politics, the antiquated curriculum and the parents. School is not meant to be daycare and teachers aren't supposed to teach your kids morals and behavior and hygiene etc.....
    Great post, I agree 100%. Parents are horrific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    FF2, I am sure your wife is a great teacher, and it is cool that she doesn't complain, but on this site and others this is the minority.

    If she has zero free periods then she must be an elementary school teacher. Even back in the Stone Age when I went to school, teachers in HS and Jr HS had free periods or study halls. I doubt that the teachers union would give that up.

    Agreed about the parents. You don't have to go into schools to see it. Just go to any mall.

    As to the OP, the easiest way to solve the inner city school problem is to just expel the disruptive kids that don't want to be there so they don't get in the way of those who actually want to learn. Not politically correct, I know. But it would work. Education is a privilege not a right.
    There is no such thing as a "free period." It is called a prep period and in theory the teacher is "preparing" for an up coming lesson.

    I havent seen a "free period" or "prep period" since NCLB. Tests, pre tests, post tests, essays, lesson plans and test prep materials have to be assessed, marked, recorded, all with "next step" comments on every single assignment. An unmanageable amount of work. Then there are administrative meetings with principals and assistant principals.

    This all happens during the school day. There isnt close to the amount of time needed so work is brought home.

    The kids and test score show than none of the testing and over the top ridiculous amount of work is helping children. Just stressing them out along with their teachers. Thanks No Child Left Behind, Obama's Race To The Top/Common Core, and FOX NEWS' negative portrayal of teachers for making education such a painful experience for all involved.

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    Teachers are getting hosed they are teachers, not parents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Test papers, essays, and daily lesson plans can easily happen during the school day. You are NOT in the classroom from 8am until 3:20. There are free periods designed for just that sort of work. And if you have taught the same class before, you can re-use lesson plans and test from previous years. The material does not change that much.

    Workshops and higher education are part of all knowledge workers jobs. The only difference is that non-teachers have to study real subjects, not basket weaving and bubble gum chewing, just to accumulate credits for their automatic raises.

    And you are correct. 8am to 3:20pm is 7 and2/3rds hrs per day. Of course, that includes lunch and all free periods. I could be wrong, but I think that city HS and JHS teachers actually teach in front of students 4 periods a day. That would be approximately 3 hrs per day of actual teaching.

    But let's go with your number. Still just over 38 hrs a week, for 36 weeks a year. That would be almost 1380 hrs per year.

    Most knowledge workers these days are working 10 hr days, but again, lets use the 9 - 5 8 hr day for comparison. Of the 52 weeks, most people have 10 holidays, so we are down to 50 weeks. Most people start at 2 weeks vacation, but let's throw in an extra week for an average worker, so we are down to 47 weeks. 47 weeks times 40 hours per week = 1880 hrs per year.

    The difference is a little over 500 hrs, or 12.5 weeks, per year. As a percentage, teachers work approximately 26% less than a 9-5 job. Which, btw, don't exist. 9-5 jobs in the private sector have gone the way of the dinosaur.

    Of course this 73% part time job has other perks as well. YOU CAN"T GET FIRED. No pressure. Even if you molest a child, they only move you out of the classroom SO YOU DON"T HAVE TO TEACH AT ALL!

    So please stop crying about your guaranteed part-time job. Those of us who work for a living and pay for your unions excessive demands take offense.
    Where did you get your information from?

    FOX NEWS?

    The REPUBLICAN PARTY?

    TESTING COMPANIES?

    Its information like this that has vilified every teacher across the country and more importantly CRUSHED the needed trust between teacher and student for learning to occur.

    I invite you to visit a public school for ONE day and see how much is asked of a teacher. See how many periods they stand in front of kids in ridiculously over crowded classrooms. It is closer to 6 periods out of 8 rather than 4. ONE prep and ONE period for lunch which is now a working period.

    Then check how many times in a year, every year, the structure and skills in a lesson plan is changed and changed again by people outside of the class room.

    I cant even begin to tell you how wrong you are, but then again, what would you know, you listen to what is spoken about on the news. The same news that is owned by people like Ruppurt Murdock, Bloomberg, and the people of FOX who have a huge agenda about breaking all unions.

    BTW, cops, firemen, and sanitation have the same amount of vacation days as teachers and they get to choose when they want to take THEIR vacation as opposed to a teacher who HAS to take it when it is scheduled.
    Last edited by copernicus; 03-28-2013 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Where did you get your information from?

    FOX NEWS?

    The REPUBLICAN PARTY?

    TESTING COMPANIES?

    Its information like this that has vilified every teacher across the country and more importantly CRUSHED the needed trust between teacher and student for learning to occur.

    I invite you to visit a public school for ONE day and see how much is asked of a teacher. See how many periods they stand in front of kids in ridiculously over crowded classrooms. It is closer to 6 periods out of 8 rather than 4. ONE prep and ONE period for lunch which is now a working period.

    Then check how many times in a year, every year, the structure and skills in a lesson plan is changed and changed again by people outside of the class room.

    I cant even begin to tell you how wrong you are, but then again, what would you know, you listen to what is spoken about on the news. The same news that is owned by people like Ruppurt Murdock, Bloomberg, and the people of FOX who have a huge agenda about breaking all unions.

    BTW, cops, firemen, and sanitation have the same amount of vacation days as teachers and they get to choose when they want to take THEIR vacation as opposed to a teacher who HAS to take it when it is scheduled.
    Do you never tire of telling us how much harder you have it then the rest of us?

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