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Thread: SCOTUS and gay marriage

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    so then what's wrong with civil unions, if all else is equal? gays don't help themselves by demanding marriage.
    They aren't looking for merely equal protection under the law they are looking for equal status. That's why they aren't likely to win with this Supreme Court.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBENjet View Post
    The equal protection clause is silent to race, creed, sex, etc. I'm not going to quote it again here, but I have previously in this thread. It's pretty unambiguous that states may not make discriminatory laws. Couple that with scotus ruling that marriage is a fundamental right, and it's all right there.

    Yes, the constitution does not mention marriage specifically. Isn't this another reason we have the courts? To interpret the constitution?
    I will quote the Court in Loving since you seem to have completely disregarded what the court actually said in Loving.

    The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual, and cannot be infringed by the State.
    Race is not sexual orientation.

  3. #83
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    This is one of those issues that I truly could care less about. If Gays want to marry so be it. Based on my facebook timeline today there are lots of folks that seem to really be pushing for this and not many willing to post Anti-Gay Marriage stuff. I have no idea about how this court case will go but the winds of change seem to be blowing in the direction of legalization.

    If I were dictator my solution to keep everyone happy would be to leave the term "marriage" to religious institutions. I would change the name of the legal arrangement of "marriage" to "Lawful Union" and allow any two people that aren't brother and sister to have a "lawful union" under the law. If they want to get married they can do so in their church or synagogue. I would also make sure that under no circumstance can any religious institution be forced to perform a marriage ceremony for any reason.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    This is one of those issues that I truly could care less about. If Gays want to marry so be it. Based on my facebook timeline today there are lots of folks that seem to really be pushing for this and not many willing to post Anti-Gay Marriage stuff. I have no idea about how this court case will go but the winds of change seem to be blowing in the direction of legalization.

    If I were dictator my solution to keep everyone happy would be to leave the term "marriage" to religious institutions. I would change the name of the legal arrangement of "marriage" to "Lawful Union" and allow any two people that aren't brother and sister to have a "lawful union" under the law. If they want to get married they can do so in their church or synagogue. I would also make sure that under no circumstance can any religious institution be forced to perform a marriage ceremony for any reason.
    The only anti gay marriage thing I saw in social media was sadly on Stephen Hill's Instagram account today. He deactivated his Instagram a couple hours after I saw it.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    I will quote the Court in Loving since you seem to have completely disregarded what the court actually said in Loving.



    Race is not sexual orientation.
    And you're willfully disregarding the text of the equal protection clause.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs View Post
    Exactly marriage isn't a right, it's a contractual obligation that people enter into willingly and the States use to regulate relationships in the best interest of the State. It is not a right it is a contract.

    I haven't asserted anything like that you have jumped to a conclusion. The data isn't in and won't be for a long time. Your claiming something as true or false is simply your opinion at this point. I prefer we have some data and with some states being ahead of others we will get it. I would opine it's likely that children will do better with 2 gay parents then single parents, will they do as well as 2 parents of the opposite sex? Not sure and I don't need to speculate. As more data is collected and studied experts will no doubt have their opinions.

    The only thing we do know is that the reduction of nuclear families raising children has been a huge negative for those children and society. We are also seeing very conclusive data that single women raising men without a male father has been a complete disaster.
    Marriage is a fundamental right. SCOTUS has affirmed such on no less than fourteen occasions.

    It's not my opinion that kids raised by same sex couples are no worse off than kids raised in traditional families. Numerous studies have confirmed this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting

    I know it's a Wikipedia link, but refer to the references that they link to. Many studies.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    so then what's wrong with civil unions, if all else is equal? gays don't help themselves by demanding marriage.
    Dont help themselves? They aren't going for popularity here. They want equal rights.

    Separate is never equal, by definition.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBENjet View Post
    And you're willfully disregarding the text of the equal protection clause.
    Lets review what Chief Justice Warren said about that in Loving.

    The Equal Protection Clause requires the consideration of whether the classifications drawn by any statute constitute an arbitrary and invidious discrimination. The clear and central purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment was to eliminate all official state sources of invidious racial discrimination in the States.
    So I see this as two fold. One is the racial aspect undeniable. The second is the classificaton drawn by the statute arbitrary and invidious discrimination.

    Could be arbitrary if you don't believe the State has any business promoting nuclear families. If not the State probably shouldn't be contracting marriage and we should all file as individuals. The real answer here seems to be in our entire institution of marriage. We should probably do away with it entirely which is as reasonable a solution as changing it.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 03-28-2013 at 06:49 PM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post
    The only anti gay marriage thing I saw in social media was sadly on Stephen Hill's Instagram account today. He deactivated his Instagram a couple hours after I saw it.
    Wow. He drops the ball off the field too?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    Wow. He drops the ball off the field too?
    But he's still fast!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBENjet View Post
    So separate but equal?
    no, just differently named. Sort of like how men's underwear are called boxers, and women's are panties.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Dont help themselves? They aren't going for popularity here. They want equal rights.

    Separate is never equal, by definition.
    I don't believe they want equal rights because civil unions would give them that. they want to punish a segment of the population for not totally accepting them.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBENjet View Post
    Marriage is a fundamental right. SCOTUS has affirmed such on no less than fourteen occasions.

    It's not my opinion that kids raised by same sex couples are no worse off than kids raised in traditional families. Numerous studies have confirmed this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting

    I know it's a Wikipedia link, but refer to the references that they link to. Many studies.
    All the studies I've read say the best is 1 man and 1 woman in a monogamous relationship.

    Of course, with enough money and an agenda, you can get a study to say anything you want.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    I don't believe they want equal rights because civil unions would give them that. they want to punish a segment of the population for not totally accepting them.
    LMAO

    How can posts like this be taken seriously?

    Yes, this is what it is all about, sticking it to heterosexual america!

    Cmon man.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby2 View Post
    LMAO

    How can posts like this be taken seriously?

    Yes, this is what it is all about, sticking it to heterosexual america!

    Cmon man.
    I've read quotes from activists admitting this. Don't mock me because of your ignorance.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    I've read quotes from activists admitting this. Don't mock me because of your ignorance.
    Not trying to mock or belittle you Quantum, I just can't take your original statement seriously. I would love to see those quotes your mentioning. I highly doubt they say "This whole thing is about punishing heterosexual america". And even in the highly unlikely event that they were indeed that bluntly stated, that doesn't change the fact that this is about gays wanting the same rights provided to other Americans. Maybe a few have some other agenda, I have no idea, but the views of a few can rarely ever be applied to a whole group.
    Last edited by Ruby2; 03-29-2013 at 04:26 PM.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    I've read quotes from activists admitting this. Don't mock me because of your ignorance.
    Oh lord.

  18. #98
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    SCOTUS and gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    I don't believe they want equal rights because civil unions would give them that. they want to punish a segment of the population for not totally accepting them.
    "Vote for revenge!!!"

    All-time dog whistle right there.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 03-29-2013 at 04:53 PM.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    I don't believe they want equal rights because civil unions would give them that. they want to punish a segment of the population for not totally accepting them.
    How exactly does this punish anyone?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    I've read quotes from activists admitting this. Don't mock me because of your ignorance.
    wow, talk about irony.

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