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Thread: Sanchez more comfortable with WCO trains with Garcia.

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    Did Carroll say he'd never be ready, or just not ready yet? And if it's the latter (which is was), might it be on the Jets for not giving what he needed to reach his full potential, and not just on Sanchez for not getting there?

    The Gholston comparison is absurd at best. Sanchez's first two years were arguably GOOD for a guy who barely played any college ball and got thrust into a starting NFL position. Unfortunately he did not build on that, which is why we're discussing if he has a future on this team. Gholston NEVER showed ANYTHING. Thinking Gholston would turn into something was definitely wishful thinking -- hoping Sanchez would (will) had a much greater chance of happening, even if it never does . . .
    Ummmmmmm Thank You!!!!!

  2. #82
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    Sanchez was never a game manager. He had a low completion percentage as a rookie, because he was a rookie, and because he took shots down field. High risk high reward plays. He was not inaccurate the way he is now. He was throwing the ball to covered receivers a lot, and where there was no receiver, but for a rookie he was fine. In fact he played really well until half way through the season. Defenses caught on to what Shotty was doing, and they changed the way they called the games after the stupid Bills game. They should have let him keep gambling until he slowly learned to hit more, and miss less. He was never afraid of the rush, he had a really high success rate against the blitz, and he ran the ball a lot. They brought in Gerardi to teach him to slide for Christ's sake. He's still not afraid of pressure. He's afraid of taking a sack, fumbling, and of throwing picks. You can't play scared. He needs to let it go. He still throws a good deep ball, but most of the time he throws it out of bounds, or throws it too late. The touch passes he can't throw because, well they need touch, and you can't do that when you're pressing. They also come out too late or early. Both of these can be attributed to playing without confidence, and overcompensating. Kind of like when you see people afraid to pull on the highway. They don't go don't go, then they close their eyes and just gun it. This argument is only academic since it doesn't really matter why he's inaccurate. He was never known as a precision thrower, but he wasn't bad for a scrambler. No one was complaining about his accuracy the first year. They complained that he couldn't read defenses, but his throws were okay.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM31 View Post
    Mot actually more accurate I think as much as the idea that his accuracy does not degrade at the same rate as an accurate pocket passer. In no circumstance is Sanchez accurate.
    Professor, surely you don't wish for me to write that 50 times?

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanMadman View Post
    We get one of these every season. Sanchez finally gets it. Sanchez trains in the off season. Blah blah blah.
    And what didn't change every season Sanchez didn't get it - I'll give you help - a HC for all intents and purposes that abandoned the offense because he felt all it needed to do was run the ball and his D would save the day.

    It didn't matter what completion % Sanchez had , the offensive "blueprint" was laid out by Rex ( G&P) his Oc's were simply puppets and in the rare instances they opened the offense up , Rex was damn on the spot to reign it back in.

    If and its a big IF , Rex can swallow his pride and allow his OC to run an offense that's not rooted in the leather helmet era , perhaps we may see what Sanchez can do . In my eyes its a complete unknown as he was simply not been utilized properly under Rex.

    In fact I'll state any QB with perhaps a few exceptions would have struggled in this archaic offensive scheme. Its like you have a racrhorse but you use it to give kids pony rides at birthday parties. Could you judge if that horse could be a Kentucky Derby winner. Get the horse a trainer(OC/QB coach) and see what it can do.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    And what didn't change every season Sanchez didn't get it - I'll give you help - a HC for all intents and purposes that abandoned the offense because he felt all it needed to do was run the ball and his D would save the day.

    It didn't matter what completion % Sanchez had , the offensive "blueprint" was laid out by Rex ( G&P) his Oc's were simply puppets and in the rare instances they opened the offense up , Rex was damn on the spot to reign it back in.

    If and its a big IF , Rex can swallow his pride and allow his OC to run an offense that's not rooted in the leather helmet era , perhaps we may see what Sanchez can do . In my eyes its a complete unknown as he was simply not been utilized properly under Rex.

    In fact I'll state any QB with perhaps a few exceptions would have struggled in this archaic offensive scheme. Its like you have a racrhorse but you use it to give kids pony rides at birthday parties. Could you judge if that horse could be a Kentucky Derby winner. Get the horse a trainer(OC/QB coach) and see what it can do.
    Haha oh man sad to realize there are STILL Sanchez apologists around.. The game plan carried Sanchez for 2 years, dominant defense dominant run, a rookie qbs wet dream.. Rex wanted to throw more in 11 thinking he could take the training wheels off mark after two years.. But he couldn't throw ! Why are offense was in identity crisis and had to revert back to run run until we have to throw.. Mark was even more terrible last year.. Now I look back at his highlights 1 year at USC and see why he did well, had basically nfl team great line gave him all day to throw and to wide open receivers.. Everything is equal in the nfl.. He's not the 1st not the last who does very well in college but can't hack it in nfl

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013 View Post
    Haha oh man sad to realize there are STILL Sanchez apologists around.. The game plan carried Sanchez for 2 years, dominant defense dominant run, a rookie qbs wet dream.. Rex wanted to throw more in 11 thinking he could take the training wheels off mark after two years.. But he couldn't throw ! Why are offense was in identity crisis and had to revert back to run run until we have to throw.. Mark was even more terrible last year.. Now I look back at his highlights 1 year at USC and see why he did well, had basically nfl team great line gave him all day to throw and to wide open receivers.. Everything is equal in the nfl.. He's not the 1st not the last who does very well in college but can't hack it in nfl
    LOL, so because somebody puts up a completely plausible post, which makes a ton of football sense, with some actual football IQ on this board for a change, he's an apologist?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentide View Post
    All World in practice....then suck in actual game conditions per usual.
    He's never been too hot in practice either.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    And what didn't change every season Sanchez didn't get it - I'll give you help - a HC for all intents and purposes that abandoned the offense because he felt all it needed to do was run the ball and his D would save the day.

    It didn't matter what completion % Sanchez had , the offensive "blueprint" was laid out by Rex ( G&P) his Oc's were simply puppets and in the rare instances they opened the offense up , Rex was damn on the spot to reign it back in.

    If and its a big IF , Rex can swallow his pride and allow his OC to run an offense that's not rooted in the leather helmet era , perhaps we may see what Sanchez can do . In my eyes its a complete unknown as he was simply not been utilized properly under Rex.

    In fact I'll state any QB with perhaps a few exceptions would have struggled in this archaic offensive scheme. Its like you have a racrhorse but you use it to give kids pony rides at birthday parties. Could you judge if that horse could be a Kentucky Derby winner. Get the horse a trainer(OC/QB coach) and see what it can do.
    I want to agree with this sentiment, but Sanchez just does not have the skills to succeed regardless of offense.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    And what didn't change every season Sanchez didn't get it - I'll give you help - a HC for all intents and purposes that abandoned the offense because he felt all it needed to do was run the ball and his D would save the day.

    It didn't matter what completion % Sanchez had , the offensive "blueprint" was laid out by Rex ( G&P) his Oc's were simply puppets and in the rare instances they opened the offense up , Rex was damn on the spot to reign it back in.

    If and its a big IF , Rex can swallow his pride and allow his OC to run an offense that's not rooted in the leather helmet era , perhaps we may see what Sanchez can do . In my eyes its a complete unknown as he was simply not been utilized properly under Rex.

    In fact I'll state any QB with perhaps a few exceptions would have struggled in this archaic offensive scheme. Its like you have a racrhorse but you use it to give kids pony rides at birthday parties. Could you judge if that horse could be a Kentucky Derby winner. Get the horse a trainer(OC/QB coach) and see what it can do.
    This post 100%

    Why you keep posting sanity when yahoos out here will simply refute you with cleaver retorts like "Sanchez Sucks" shows you are a true football fan.

    Indeed Phil Simms, Steve Young and Trent Dillfer and others all made the same basic comments that you made in your post only to be pilloried and insulted by all of the arm chair QBs that we have out here.

  10. #90
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    They should sign Russell, he is learning the same system as Sanchez

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013 View Post
    Haha oh man sad to realize there are STILL Sanchez apologists around.. The game plan carried Sanchez for 2 years, dominant defense dominant run, a rookie qbs wet dream.. Rex wanted to throw more in 11 thinking he could take the training wheels off mark after two years.. But he couldn't throw ! Why are offense was in identity crisis and had to revert back to run run until we have to throw.. Mark was even more terrible last year.. Now I look back at his highlights 1 year at USC and see why he did well, had basically nfl team great line gave him all day to throw and to wide open receivers.. Everything is equal in the nfl.. He's not the 1st not the last who does very well in college but can't hack it in nfl
    I've been one of the more outspoken proponents of Sanchez not because I'm an apologist and really not because I'm a huge fan of Sanchez but because I'm sick of hearing so many Jet fans fall into the trap of simply blaming the QB for a situation that starts with the HC and the offensive philosophy of the New York Jets.

    You state his first two years were a QB's wet dream and I'll agree, if what your asking your QB to be is a game manager. Sanchez was never properly developed because Rex had the Oline and Rb's to make his G&P work effectively. The Jets could have created a very dynamic offense by the simple fact that the run game was dominant, but Rex was too stubborn to do so because his plan was working. Remember Rex is of the mindset he'd much rather win a 7-6 game then a 35-34 game. Sanchez had success because he was put into favorable throwing situations , but this really did nothing for his development.

    In 11 the parts necessary to run the G&P started to breakdown. Mangold's injury and lack of quality depth exposed Rex's & Mr T's lack of a backup plan. Shotty tried to open the O up but with a banged up oline and a faltering run game Sanchez was literally thrown to the wolves. He took an absolute pounding for much of 2011 but managed to still take almost every snap from center, meanwhile Rex pulled the reigns in on Shotty when he saw his QB was getting maimed and reverted to his safety blanket mindset - G&P win with defense. By this time the O was clearly frustrated and it fractured the locker room culminating in the Holmes fiasco in Miami finale.

    In 2012 with Shotty gone, Rex got to pick his OC a "mirror" image of himself someone who could climb aboard and run the G&P in harmony with Rex. Sure we all hoped Sparano would be different , we also were buoyed by the fact he had a very good offense in Dallas as a co-cooridnator with Haley. But what we got was yet an another Rex puppet , running the vaunted G&P system eventhough the pieces to do that were clearly missing and as injuries mounted ( Holmes, Keller,) the O became an ultimate horror show. Did Sanchez play brutally bad in 2012 absolutely, but he was forcing balls all over the field to players who probably shouldn't even be coaching your kids pee-wee squads. He was given nothing had no playmakers and the gameplan was so vanilla it bordered on insanity.

    And yes Sanchez did have an "all-star" team at USC but the difference is that he had an OC ( Steve Sarkisian) who knew how to design an offense and utilize his players to the best of their abilities. Sanchez played very well in USC's WCO where he was allowed to make plays outside the box and use his skillset. Flash forward to 2013 and enter Mornhinweg and his WCO which represents a better fit to Sanchez abilities than the offenses that were run here for the past 4 years. And to your last point , its still possible he performs horribly this year and finds himself out of NY or even out of football next year , but let's see first what the guy can do with a real offense designed and developed by a quality OC and QB coach , an OC who's had success with QB's who's fans also fell into the blame the QB trap.

  12. #92
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    As others have said, this is nothing more than a fluff piece.

    No different than a year ago when Sanchez was supposedly adding muscle and studying Sparano's offense with Pennington.

    Personally, I think the kid is done and have made my voice heard regarding that since the end of the 2011 season.

    But we're stuck with him for another year, so might as well hope he turns it around.

    I'm just not getting my hopes up.

    If Sanchez flourishes, then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

    If he fails...well, I expected it.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    This post 100%

    Why you keep posting sanity when yahoos out here will simply refute you with cleaver retorts like "Sanchez Sucks" shows you are a true football fan.

    Indeed Phil Simms, Steve Young and Trent Dillfer and others all made the same basic comments that you made in your post only to be pilloried and insulted by all of the arm chair QBs that we have out here.
    Hell Yeah. It's goog to read some analytical stuff instead of the sterile whining that goes on around here

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    And what didn't change every season Sanchez didn't get it - I'll give you help - a HC for all intents and purposes that abandoned the offense because he felt all it needed to do was run the ball and his D would save the day.

    It didn't matter what completion % Sanchez had , the offensive "blueprint" was laid out by Rex ( G&P) his Oc's were simply puppets and in the rare instances they opened the offense up , Rex was damn on the spot to reign it back in.

    If and its a big IF , Rex can swallow his pride and allow his OC to run an offense that's not rooted in the leather helmet era , perhaps we may see what Sanchez can do . In my eyes its a complete unknown as he was simply not been utilized properly under Rex.

    In fact I'll state any QB with perhaps a few exceptions would have struggled in this archaic offensive scheme. Its like you have a racrhorse but you use it to give kids pony rides at birthday parties. Could you judge if that horse could be a Kentucky Derby winner. Get the horse a trainer(OC/QB coach) and see what it can do.
    BS - You mean to tell me Sanchez did not have an OC or QB coach ??? Rex was the only person that could have save Sanchez ??? BS.

    I hope he improves .. but those hopes are not very high.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive View Post
    Professor, surely you don't wish for me to write that 50 times?
    I think I do not.

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    What a crock this article is, just like last years piece with Penny playing the Garcia role.
    How much more do Jets fans have to see before it gets thru there heads that, Mark Sanchez just did not live up to his potential.
    Do those who think we are pissing on Mark think we would not love to see this kid step up? Sorry folks not going to happen, Mark is not the future and never was going to be.
    His first two years he was carried by a very strong team around him. His last two, which he should have been strong enough by then, to carry, brought out and exposed who Mark really is.
    Last year was the year Mark should have stepped up and won those few close games. Third year starters do that, instead,many of those loses fall squarely on his shoulders.
    If we have a fair and open competition in TC ,then rest assured Mark will not be the starting QB coming opening day. That should put the exclamation point on the Mark Sanchez era with the NY Jets

  17. #97
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    I agree....if Garrard can stay healthy there is no way sanchez beats him out



    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Nice to hear, but fluff piece really. We'll see when training camp/the regular season rolls around.

  18. #98
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    damn straight.




    Quote Originally Posted by fltflo View Post
    What a crock this article is, just like last years piece with Penny playing the Garcia role.
    How much more do Jets fans have to see before it gets thru there heads that, Mark Sanchez just did not live up to his potential.
    Do those who think we are pissing on Mark think we would not love to see this kid step up? Sorry folks not going to happen, Mark is not the future and never was going to be.
    His first two years he was carried by a very strong team around him. His last two, which he should have been strong enough by then, to carry, brought out and exposed who Mark really is.
    Last year was the year Mark should have stepped up and won those few close games. Third year starters do that, instead,many of those loses fall squarely on his shoulders.
    If we have a fair and open competition in TC ,then rest assured Mark will not be the starting QB coming opening day. That should put the exclamation point on the Mark Sanchez era with the NY Jets

  19. #99
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    I don't get how anyone can say that "we don't know what we have" in Sanchez as this point.

    While it's true his development was poorly handled from the start and his best opportunity to flourish might have been with a different staff I think it's fair to say we have a good idea of what he is capable of -- not much. Blaming Rex's conservative mindset doesn't explain his inability to read defenses (both coverages and pressure packages) presnap. It doesn't explain his wild inaccuracy. It doesn't explain his inability to protect the ball, his propensity for committing bafflingly terrible turnovers.

    Would he have been better off starting his career with Mike McCarthy or Sean Peyton? Yeah, I think so. But acting like the fact that he was on a team with a defensive HC with a conservative offensive attitude is the main reason he has been a bad quarterback is ridiculous.

    Frankly, the guy just doesn't have the ability to be a franchise QB. We made a mistake. It's time to move on and find the guy who can do it for us. That doesn't mean drafting Geno Smith (or anyone) this year out of desperation, but it certainly means we should be persuing all options to find "our guy."

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56mehl56 View Post
    And what didn't change every season Sanchez didn't get it - I'll give you help - a HC for all intents and purposes that abandoned the offense because he felt all it needed to do was run the ball and his D would save the day.

    It didn't matter what completion % Sanchez had , the offensive "blueprint" was laid out by Rex ( G&P) his Oc's were simply puppets and in the rare instances they opened the offense up , Rex was damn on the spot to reign it back in.

    If and its a big IF , Rex can swallow his pride and allow his OC to run an offense that's not rooted in the leather helmet era , perhaps we may see what Sanchez can do . In my eyes its a complete unknown as he was simply not been utilized properly under Rex.

    In fact I'll state any QB with perhaps a few exceptions would have struggled in this archaic offensive scheme. Its like you have a racrhorse but you use it to give kids pony rides at birthday parties. Could you judge if that horse could be a Kentucky Derby winner. Get the horse a trainer(OC/QB coach) and see what it can do.
    I agree with the premise of this, except I don't believe Rex didn't want to have a good offense. They paid a lot of money to Sanchez, Holmes, Brick, and Keller. All pass first, run second type players. The problem was the OC, and the GM. We had no big picture plan for offense, or if we did, we scrapped it as soon as we hit some bumps. The GM spent money on offense, but without any semblance of a grand design. The OC was bad, but even worse he had no balls, or influence. We had a defense ready to win now, and when we lost a game or two because of Shotty's stupid play calling(think 5 int Bills game) Rex decided just to run the ball. We tried to take a rookie QB and stop him from making mistakes. That's just no way to learn. The problems snowballed from this point, but it was I believe, because Rex saw what we saw. That there was no plan, from the GM down to the OC that could work. He wanted to run, because he had no faith that throwing(the ball, or money at offensive players) would help.

    Now should Rex have taken it upon himself to design a better offense, and to hire a better OC? Sure in a perfect world, but it still doesn't mean that he wants the offense to be archaic. The best case scenario is we have a GM with a plan, and an OC with the knowledge, and the will to fight for what he needs to run a productive offense. Then let Rex run the defense, and give pep talks. Looks promising so far, that that is just what we have now.

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