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Thread: If Warmack, Geno and Jordan are all there at 9?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADemas View Post
    For a new GM to initiate his reign over a team with a QB draft pick, he'd better be ABSOLUTELY sure that his QB will be the one, or he will be canned within 4 years (look at Tanny). SO that being said, do you really think someone as patience and cunning as idzick is going to draft someone's desperate attempt for a franchise QB for a player (entirely because of his position) will be draftet in the first round when in reality he will contribute as a third round pick, which is where he should be picked.

    Now if you are idzick and you look at the atrocious coaches we have had on the offensive side of the ball for the last 5 years, and you now hire an OC that has established consitent top 10 offenses for every single year since 2006, are you really going to blow your load on a position that is filled with studs next year? I think not. especially when next season is the first year you can adequetly judged Sanchez and not his inept coaches. That would be equivalent of trading Revis for a second rounder like the Kids on this board wanted.
    Drafting Sanchez was not why Mt was canned.. Giving him a extension that was largely guaranteed was a big part, along with many other bad contracts.. I highly doubt geno will be there at 9. With so many teams wanting to trade down someone will trade up ahead of jets for geno..

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    So NFL scouts are giving their opinions to the press?

    This is the problem with the pre-draft stuff, no scout is saying a word. Have you ever seen a pre-draft quote from terry bradway?

    The people giving their opinions are draft prognosticators, former scouts/GMs, or beat writers - all of whom have an agenda of their own.

    Geno Smith put up great numbers in games where virtually no defense was played at all. He is pretty fast, has a good not great arm, and is reasonably tall. On top of all those average numbers he struggled in his bowl game in the snow, is known to lock on to WRs and not go through his progressions, didnt play in a pro offense, so he is a DEFINITE pick at 9?

    If Barkley is a product of woods and marquise lee - then what is geno with stedman bailey and austin?
    Good points

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ADemas View Post
    For a new GM to initiate his reign over a team with a QB draft pick, he'd better be ABSOLUTELY sure that his QB will be the one, or he will be canned within 4 years (look at Tanny). SO that being said, do you really think someone as patience and cunning as idzick is going to draft someone's desperate attempt for a franchise QB for a player (entirely because of his position) will be draftet in the first round when in reality he will contribute as a third round pick, which is where he should be picked.

    Now if you are idzick and you look at the atrocious coaches we have had on the offensive side of the ball for the last 5 years, and you now hire an OC that has established consitent top 10 offenses for every single year since 2006, are you really going to blow your load on a position that is filled with studs next year? I think not. especially when next season is the first year you can adequetly judged Sanchez and not his inept coaches. That would be equivalent of trading Revis for a second rounder like the Kids on this board wanted.
    Thank you Mel Kiper. Geno compares to many of the guys drafted in the 1st over the years. Scouts say he is worth a 1st, the draft board says he is a 1st, coaches and GMs are looking at him to be their 1st. But I guess you know more then any of them. I dont get where this crazy hate of this class came from. Then the same guys tell you Boyd next year would be a better pick. In what world do you know this? If there wasnt a QB worth a 1st here you would be seeing so many QB being talked about that high. There have been drafts with no QBs in the 1st at all. Talent stands out but yes a coach or GM really has to like the guy. You dont win without taking gambles. Teams that dont look for a QB dont normally find one.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Thank you Mel Kiper. Geno compares to many of the guys drafted in the 1st over the years. Scouts say he is worth a 1st, the draft board says he is a 1st, coaches and GMs are looking at him to be their 1st. But I guess you know more then any of them. I dont get where this crazy hate of this class came from. Then the same guys tell you Boyd next year would be a better pick. In what world do you know this? If there wasnt a QB worth a 1st here you would be seeing so many QB being talked about that high. There have been drafts with no QBs in the 1st at all. Talent stands out but yes a coach or GM really has to like the guy. You dont win without taking gambles. Teams that dont look for a QB dont normally find one.
    And many of the guys picked in the first dont make it as Pros because they are overdrafted.

    The fact that you are citing a mythical "draft board" makes this whole thing even less sensical.

    This class will produce an 8+ year NFL starter and will produce a complete bust along with a few backups - just like almost every other draft.

    We need idzik to wade through the nonsense and hopefully find the diamond in the rough. Hopefully he doesnt put too much weight in spread stats, pro-day workouts, or straight line speed from the QB.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    And many of the guys picked in the first dont make it as Pros because they are overdrafted.

    The fact that you are citing a mythical "draft board" makes this whole thing even less sensical.

    This class will produce an 8+ year NFL starter and will produce a complete bust along with a few backups - just like almost every other draft.

    We need idzik to wade through the nonsense and hopefully find the diamond in the rough. Hopefully he doesnt put too much weight in spread stats, pro-day workouts, or straight line speed from the QB.
    Don't bother arguing with the child.

    He watches film, you know.

    _

  6. #26
    Lets also not forget Nassib is 2-0 in Bowl games including wins vs K-State and against Geno's mountaineers.

    Geno is 1-2 in his bowl games.

  7. #27
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    Having the best guard in the NFL doesn't significantly improve our offense. I understand the need to upgrade the OL but if the FO feels Geno is guy that will be our face of the franchise, then it's not even debatable.

    The argument at this point is not who do you take, it's "is Geno the guy?"

  8. #28
    Im putting my money on the fact that Sanchez is going to benefit from a talented OC, just like he did with a talented O line, the first two years of his career. And im betting agaisnt the immature minded jet fan who changes their mind from game to game and forgets what this QB did for us. Im going OL with 2 picks in the first 3 rounds.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    And many of the guys picked in the first dont make it as Pros because they are overdrafted.

    The fact that you are citing a mythical "draft board" makes this whole thing even less sensical.

    This class will produce an 8+ year NFL starter and will produce a complete bust along with a few backups - just like almost every other draft.

    We need idzik to wade through the nonsense and hopefully find the diamond in the rough. Hopefully he doesnt put too much weight in spread stats, pro-day workouts, or straight line speed from the QB.
    How is the draft board mythical? College players apply to it every year to get a range on where they would go. It is a good judge of where player will really land. It is base on both scouting reports and draft tendencies. Just because they don't have a posted web site and blog doesn't make it mythical. Otherwise I agree with every thing you just wrote. There are QBs worth looking at here bottom line is you have to wait and see what our scouts think of them.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADemas View Post
    Im putting my money on the fact that Sanchez is going to benefit from a talented OC, just like he did with a talented O line, the first two years of his career. And im betting agaisnt the immature minded jet fan who changes their mind from game to game and forgets what this QB did for us. Im going OL with 2 picks in the first 3 rounds.
    In Sanchez's best season, he was still ranked in the bottom third of QBs. He's played 4 seasons in this league and has yet to do anything without either the number 1 OL and running game in the league, number 1 defense in the league, or Holmes playing out of his mind, single-handedly winning 3 games.

    Sanchez is done. I'm not getting into the argument that the Jets FO did everything wrong for his development, because I believe they did. But he is what he is, a back up QB. Probably just an average to below average back up at that.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Don't bother arguing with the child.

    He watches film, you know.

    _
    jeeze did I kick your dog or something?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Thank you Mel Kiper. Geno compares to many of the guys drafted in the 1st over the years. Scouts say he is worth a 1st, the draft board says he is a 1st, coaches and GMs are looking at him to be their 1st. But I guess you know more then any of them. I dont get where this crazy hate of this class came from. Then the same guys tell you Boyd next year would be a better pick. In what world do you know this? If there wasnt a QB worth a 1st here you would be seeing so many QB being talked about that high. There have been drafts with no QBs in the 1st at all. Talent stands out but yes a coach or GM really has to like the guy. You dont win without taking gambles. Teams that dont look for a QB dont normally find one.
    Gambling? More like desperation. Pick a guy at a position at which 85% bust, who can only sit in shotgun and continually misses open guys. He should get along perfectly with stephen hill. And if he was raw with athleticism, maybe, but hes not really that athletic nor tall, not a high ceiling. of course not to mention throwing out a 9 if sanchez clicks in the new O

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ADemas View Post
    Gambling? More like desperation. Pick a guy at a position at which 85% bust, who can only sit in shotgun and continually misses open guys. He should get along perfectly with stephen hill. And if he was raw with athleticism, maybe, but hes not really that athletic nor tall, not a high ceiling. of course not to mention throwing out a 9 if sanchez clicks in the new O
    Sanchez? What does he have to do with this team other then eating our cap? I can't even see a scenario where he ever plays anther game for us. Idzak would be signing his walking papers on that one if he did that. You can't go into the year with the QBs we have now, it would be a huge error in judgement. Your talking a guy who will have issues beating out Tebow for the #3 spot.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by pcola View Post
    In Sanchez's best season, he was still ranked in the bottom third of QBs. He's played 4 seasons in this league and has yet to do anything without either the number 1 OL and running game in the league, number 1 defense in the league, or Holmes playing out of his mind, single-handedly winning 3 games.

    Sanchez is done. I'm not getting into the argument that the Jets FO did everything wrong for his development, because I believe they did. But he is what he is, a back up QB. Probably just an average to below average back up at that.
    well in your own words, if the front office did everything wrong for his development, then everything held constant, Hiring morningweigh is a BIG RIGHT. I DONT LOVE SANCHEZ, but he never had any coach and system more competent than he has right now. With his experience, there is a chance you may eat your words. HIs first two years dictates he is at least a system qb, and this system is going to be the best he has had.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Sanchez? What does he have to do with this team other then eating our cap? I can't even see a scenario where he ever plays anther game for us. Idzak would be signing his walking papers on that one if he did that. You can't go into the year with the QBs we have now, it would be a huge error in judgement. Your talking a guy who will have issues beating out Tebow for the #3 spot.
    You have the memory of a flee. Hes has 4 playoff wins and im not talking about Sanchez, which is what the collective does here, Im talking about our OC and the new system which has elevated every QB completion % who has entered it by A LOT. What the **** does a QB have to do with QB success? The coaches make it or break it, is that not apparent the last 4 years?

    ANd the OC and GM will not let that phat phuck as a head coach phuck up and neglect the O like he has done with those pu$$y as yes men in our last two OCs and Tanny. No QB in the history in the NFL drafted top 10 has been less supported than sanchez.
    Last edited by ADemas; 03-31-2013 at 09:05 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADemas View Post
    well in your own words, if the front office did everything wrong for his development, then everything held constant, Hiring morningweigh is a BIG RIGHT. I DONT LOVE SANCHEZ, but he never had any coach and system more competent than he has right now. With his experience, there is a chance you may eat your words. HIs first two years dictates he is at least a system qb, and this system is going to be the best he has had.
    The point is MS is too far gone. During the most critical time of his development things were done wrong. There is not fixing him. See David Carr.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by pcola View Post
    The point is MS is too far gone. During the most critical time of his development things were done wrong. There is not fixing him. See David Carr.
    This. I can buy people not wanting a QB in the 1st round this year OK. But if your saying we pass on QB because of Mark Sanchez I dont see the logic. He is proven to not be very good. Expensive or not one GM just got canned for hanging all his chips on this guy last year. As a new GM would you do the same mistake or look for someone else? He may get 3 years to get it right burning his 1st year as GM would be more risky then drafting a 2-3 round QB. But if you have a chance at the best prospect in the class that is not an easy pass I'm sorry.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    How is the draft board mythical? College players apply to it every year to get a range on where they would go. It is a good judge of where player will really land. It is base on both scouting reports and draft tendencies. Just because they don't have a posted web site and blog doesn't make it mythical. Otherwise I agree with every thing you just wrote. There are QBs worth looking at here bottom line is you have to wait and see what our scouts think of them.
    As far as the draft board comment, apologies, I thought you were referencing something like espns draft board.

    Other then that, there are very few experts who think geno smith deserves to be a top pick. The problem is that GMs have to succumb, albeit somewhat, to public opinion when they make these picks

  19. #39
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    Everyone knows how much I love Warmack, but I think you have to take the QB in this scenario.

  20. #40
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    As hot as I am for improving the offense, I'm leaning Jordan. As of right now, we don't have an OLB on either side. Jordan might be the best value of the three (and I love the idea of taking Warmack or even Cooper).

    Smith I'm not sure about without a trade down. I just don't like the risk-reward on him right now. That could change as I learn more, but I think there are a very few premium players that are high-floor guys. The two guards and maybe 2-3 of the defensive players and that's about it.

    While Jordan is no sure thing, he's very likely to be better than anything else we have at the position, and could substantially improve our 3rd down defense. There are going to be some good options in rounds 2-4 for offense including some options at OG that, while not Warmack, should be more than adequate. I want to go offense, but the draft just doesn't seem to support it in the top-10 unless you need a LT, which we don't.

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