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Thread: What prospects do you like and not like....

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    Disagree

    Not sure about him being the best pass rusher in the draft at all,for me that'd be Jones or Moore,but is he a better pass rusher than 5.5 sacks his senior year suggest?

    Considering he drops into coverage maybe 20 or 30% of the time(maybe more)then he has a lot less opportunities to rush the passer therefor his sack numbers and TFL's may pale into comparison with guys who are after the QB on near every down.If he was pinning his ears back every play then I'd be shocked if he wasn't up around the 8-12 sack range at least.

    The trouble with the 3-4 OLB position is that it gets judged by sacks alone when actually Rex Ryan needs guys who are flexible,can seal the edge,drop with Te's(Hello Gronk)not miss tackles and get after the QB.Jordan can do it all,hell he can cover some WR's!!.

    I have a hard time believing Rex isn't salivating at the possibilities DJ would bring to his defence and if you are looking for a solution to the problem that is Gronkowski then a 6-6 250 pounder who can outrun him and excels in coverage is probably as close to it as we are going to see anytime soon.

    Jordan will do everything Calvin Pace was asked to do but likely a lot better.If it's purely sacks you want then sure there might be other guys with bigger stats but can they drop into coverage?...are they a liability against the run?....do they miss tackles?In purely potential terms he could be a unique talent at the position.

    I love Damontre Moore and think he'll be a stud.He'll get sacks and will be pretty solid v the run although would I want him 1-1 with Hernandez or Gronk?...nope.

    Same with Jarvis Jones.

    Personally I hope we draft more than 1 OLB this year.Maybe Okafor in the mid rounds or Quanterus Smith but I really hope we get Jordan at 9 because I think he can be special.

    Just me Opinion
    Any team that has a TE on our olb or even a rb for that matter on a regular basis will be happy as hell. No olb is going to cover gronkowski or any other top flight te. Pass coverage is way down the list for me for olbs because if you are covering a lot you are going to get picked on.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Likes:

    QB: Barkley, Manuel

    RB: Franklin, Barner.

    WR: Bailey, Woods (soooo underrated)

    TE: Ertz, Kasa, McDonald. I really hope we get one of these 3 guys.

    OL: Obvious guys (Jockel, Fisher, Cooper) I also like Xavier Nixon in the middle rounds.

    DL/passrushers Floyd (stud status) Ansah, Carradine,

    ILB: Minter, Reddick

    CB: Trufant (future star) and I'd totally take him at 9 by the way. McGee, Tharold Simon

    S: Mathieu, Swearinger

    Dislikes:

    QB: Glennon. I just don't trust him to be smart enough to win consistently.

    RB: Taylor. Too slow.

    WR: Hunter. No polish. I just don't know enough.

    OL: Fluker (he's probably a starting G but not OT)

    DL: Werner. Not worth a 1st rounder IMO.

    OLB: Jordan. I need to see more production from a guy this athletic, especially in the Pac12.

    ILB: Te'o. Nuff said.

    CB: Banks. He will get over drafted and Slay is better.

    S: Vaccaro. Not a 1st rounder IMO. And Reid should have gone back to school.
    I agree about Trufant. Can this guy be a faster version of Revis??????

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    I agree about Trufant. Can this guy be a faster version of Revis??????
    Hold your horses amigo.

    I said future star, not GOAT.

    And Revis is pretty damn fast, was before the injury anyway...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    When I say 'not like' I don't mean you think they are terrible, but rather just possibly overrated or overrated as far as a jets prospect. Same with 'liking' it doesn't mean you are fighting for the jets to have a player you like.

    Some for me:

    I like both Floyd and Lotulelei, it seems so many teams are looking for that 3-4 NT or DE but I think both of these guys are going to be really good, especially Floyd.

    I do not like Dion Jordan. I simply don't like high end prospects where people are projecting and making excuses for a lack of production. "Oh he will be the best pass rusher in the draft! Oregon just never let him rush the passer! He can be a good cover OLB!"

    I like both Warmack and Cooper, both look to be very solid if not more players for a long time. I agree with people that say they are a very low bust potential for these two.

    I don't like Ansah, coming out of nowhere, kills the combine, not playing against great competition.

    I don't like Tavon Austin, at least not where people are projecting him.

    I don't like Cordarelle Patterson, his interview on path to the draft sounded like the typical one you get from diva headcases if you read between the lines.

    I like Jarvis Jones, crap workouts but I can't ignore two full years of massive production in the SEC, not only sacks but tackles for loss.

    I like DeAndre Hopkins, this guy has the things I want in a WR. Excellent college production, good hands catching away from the body, seems to be smooth and run good patterns.

    I dislike all QB's. Even if some of these guys fall to the 2nd round I view them as Gabbert, ponder types and getting one in the 2nd round is no better than getting them early because they will still be mediocre, cause you to pass up on a better position player and you will be QB hunting in 2 or 3 years time again.
    Wow, this is a remarkably well thought out list. I'm literally with you 100%.

    One other guy I love is Gio Bernard.

    And these QBs all seem like they have the absolute upside of Jake Locker/Ponder/Clemens and the downside of JaMarcus Russell and Akili Smith.

    I still don't get the mentality that we NEED to draft a QB, even if they are a JAG, just because we NEED to take a QB. Nothwithstanding it's the most important position--don't do it.


    _

  5. #25
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    Like:

    QB - Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson

    RB- Jonathan Franklin, Gio Bernard, Christine Michael, Jawan Jamison

    WR - Hopkins, Patterson, Patton, Austin, Williams, Dobson, Bailey

    TE - Eifert, Kelce

    DE/OLB - Ansah, Jones, Collins, Lemonier, Jenkins

    S- Elam, Cyprien, Williams, Rambo, Reid

  6. #26
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    Some guys I like in the 4th round or later are:

    Sanders Commings CB, Georgia. Kid is 6-2 217 plays man coverage better than zone, good speed and I love his size.

    Chris Harper WR, Kansas State. Great hands and route runner, ran faster than thought at combine. He is 234 pounds, he is a clone of Anquan Boldin.

    Andre Ellington RB, Clemson. I might be biased here but he is a GREAT fit in the WCO. Great hands and speed, can run between the tackles but will not push the pile.

    Cooper Taylor S, Richmond. This is more of a 6th or 7th round guy but I love his size. 6-5 230 runs in the 4.46 to 4.55 range. Was more of a SS and used in the box in college, but showed good range and quickness at the Shrine Game.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Wow, this is a remarkably well thought out list. I'm literally with you 100%.

    One other guy I love is Gio Bernard.

    And these QBs all seem like they have the absolute upside of Jake Locker/Ponder/Clemens and the downside of JaMarcus Russell and Akili Smith.

    I still don't get the mentality that we NEED to draft a QB, even if they are a JAG, just because we NEED to take a QB. Nothwithstanding it's the most important position--don't do it.


    _
    I'm not saying they NEED to draft a QB at all costs, even if they hate every single player.

    I just want them to really love one of these guys. I want to hear after the draft about how happy they are to have this player drop into their laps.

    Again, I'm desperate. Don't judge me.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I'm not saying they NEED to draft a QB at all costs, even if they hate every single player.

    I just want them to really love one of these guys. I want to hear after the draft about how happy they are to have this player drop into their laps.

    Again, I'm desperate. Don't judge me.
    And you're one of the guys that now hates Sanchez.

    How did that strategy work out for you?



    _

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    And you're one of the guys that now hates Sanchez.

    How did that strategy work out for you?



    _
    Not many thought we where in this bad of shape when we drafted Sanchez. Who thought Farve was really retiring? Clemens didn't look bad at all the year prior. He was on pace to get a shot. Ratliff looked like a viable BU option. As fans we had no clue that Ainge had the issues he did. As a prospect he looked good coming out of college just wasn't healthy. We even still had Brad Smith who was still listed as a BU QB. I'd take any of them right now over this group. We bought into the hype that Sanchez was this can't miss prospect. Well Tanny did anyway. Your not talking drafting a 2nd rounder because you know you have absolutely nothing at QB. It is very low risk high reward at this point. Sitting around hoping you find someone later is just no a good strategy.

    Cinci is a very good example of why you dont wait till next year. They could have very well sucked for Luck, Barkley, and RG3 and it not have been as dumb as us doing it this year. Instead they took Dalton and found a franchise QB. No one had Dalton ranked high and Cinci didn't jump on Locker, Ponder, or Gabbert like they could have. That was not a very good class either but Cinci did the right thing and got their guy in the 2nd. If we do the same I'll be thrilled. I am not a huge fan of Geno's but he has more value then any of those guys. I could see passing but only if you are targeting a guy in the 2nd we really like. There is too many good options in this class for us to not only pass up the best option but not to even try to get a guy.

  10. #30
    Like

    DE/OLB - Montgomery
    CB - Milliner
    CB - Rhodes
    S - Elam
    QB - Manuel
    QB - Bray
    QB - Jones
    QB - Renfree /
    RB - Lacy
    RB - Michael
    RB - Ball
    RB - Lattimore
    RB - Bell
    RB- Davis
    WR - HOPKINS BIGTIME #1 WR NFL
    WR - Patterson - YAC 1 of the best in the business!!!
    WR - Patton
    WR - Woods
    OL - Warmack

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Any team that has a TE on our olb or even a rb for that matter on a regular basis will be happy as hell. No olb is going to cover gronkowski or any other top flight te. Pass coverage is way down the list for me for olbs because if you are covering a lot you are going to get picked on.
    Pass coverage assignments for LB's is unfortunately a staple of how RR runs his defence(Pace was actually pretty solid at it all things considered).Dropping a LB into coverage enables him to bring pressure from elsewhere to create mismatches and confusion.

    Whether you like it or not that is part of what has enabled us to have a top ranked defence in each of the last 4 years despite not having the ideal personnel to run it.

    While I want my LB's to bring way more pass rush than Thomas and Pace have done I also don't want that to be at the expense of being a playmaker elsewhere.They need to be able to anchor against TE's and OL and stuff the run and have the athleticism to drop into coverage.Jordan is a great short area and open field tackler,goes all-out on every play and has shown that he can get after the QB too with the potential to be better.

    I think there's solid reasons why his production masks his potential

    If it just sacks you're after there are one dimensional guys likely available in the later rounds

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    And you're one of the guys that now hates Sanchez.

    How did that strategy work out for you?



    _
    hahahaha I said don't judge me!

    And I don't hate Sanchez. I actually think he might be able to improve with a change of scenery and some time on the bench. As I've always said, he has the tools. Just needs a good coach to lead him and some skilled weapons around him. He's still only 26.

    It would be nice to go into the year with some sort of hope at the position. Sanchez, Garrard, McPistol are not doing it for me. There are a bunch of flawed, average QB prospects who have potential. I want to latch on to that potential and I honestly believe at least one of these guys will be a good NFL player. Just don't ask me to pick because I have no friggin clue.
    Last edited by TheMikeIsHot; 04-04-2013 at 07:24 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    Pass coverage assignments for LB's is unfortunately a staple of how RR runs his defence(Pace was actually pretty solid at it all things considered).Dropping a LB into coverage enables him to bring pressure from elsewhere to create mismatches and confusion.

    Whether you like it or not that is part of what has enabled us to have a top ranked defence in each of the last 4 years despite not having the ideal personnel to run it.

    While I want my LB's to bring way more pass rush than Thomas and Pace have done I also don't want that to be at the expense of being a playmaker elsewhere.They need to be able to anchor against TE's and OL and stuff the run and have the athleticism to drop into coverage.Jordan is a great short area and open field tackler,goes all-out on every play and has shown that he can get after the QB too with the potential to be better.

    I think there's solid reasons why his production masks his potential

    If it just sacks you're after there are one dimensional guys likely available in the later rounds
    Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I didn't think run stopping was important. You'd be totally wrong if that is the case. OLB's need to rush the pass and stop the run and yes they do need to drop into coverage the odd time, but when they do the other teams Qb and coaches are going to go after them any chance they get. OLB's are not pro bowlers because they can cover for a few seconds in the passing game, they are pro bowlers because they stop the run and get after the QB and the Jets have had guys like Pace and Thomas that were stout vs the run could the odd time drop into coverage but couldn't rush the passer at all.

    On this particular issue it all comes down to people believing that Jordan will be a good pass rusher or not. You don't draft a guy high to get 5 sacks a year but be a good cover olb.

  14. #34
    QBs - Not loving any of them, but if we have to take a chance on one, I'd go with Manuel
    RBs - Love Jonathan Franklin
    WR - Love Quinton Patton (La Tech), Terrance Williams (Baylor) and Ryan Swope (Texas A&M)
    Gs - Love Cooper and like Warford
    DT - Love Star
    OLB - Intrigued by Jordan, really like Jamie Collins (Missouri)
    S - Like Bacarri Rambo (GA)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I didn't think run stopping was important. You'd be totally wrong if that is the case. OLB's need to rush the pass and stop the run and yes they do need to drop into coverage the odd time, but when they do the other teams Qb and coaches are going to go after them any chance they get. OLB's are not pro bowlers because they can cover for a few seconds in the passing game, they are pro bowlers because they stop the run and get after the QB and the Jets have had guys like Pace and Thomas that were stout vs the run could the odd time drop into coverage but couldn't rush the passer at all.

    On this particular issue it all comes down to people believing that Jordan will be a good pass rusher or not. You don't draft a guy high to get 5 sacks a year but be a good cover olb.
    The whole point is:He's likely going to get a lot more than 5 sacks per year.For the reasons previously noted.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlichtie View Post
    The whole point is:He's likely going to get a lot more than 5 sacks per year.For the reasons previously noted.
    The only thing I've seen in that regard is that 'he was forced to drop into coverage that is why he got so few sacks in college'. This guy is all projection rather than production and that worries me.

  17. #37
    we'll probably draft another usc qb. lol

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by andybernard View Post
    we'll probably draft another usc qb. lol
    Don't scare us anymore than we need to be scared. Actually I've never bought into the idea of avoiding schools because of previous draft failures at any position. I just don't like Barkley much.

  19. #39
    For all the (deserved?) talk about how great it is to have an all-world CB on the team, I have to admit I got WAY more enjoyment out of watching Big Jenks dominate, even for such a limited period of time.

    I guess that's why I'm enamored with this Star guy. I know Floyd's name is tossed around as well, but for some reason I think Star is the goods. I keep hearing "but we already have Wilk and Coples", and I admit I'm not knowledgeable enough to counter that argument. But if we have the chance to further dominate the line, that's where I'm putting my chips.

    We talk about having this awesome defense, but I've never felt it was DOMINANT. If you think a pass-rusher gets us there then I'm in. But it sure feels like the "high floor/high ceiling" guy is Star, and I hope we're not penny-wise and pound-foolish if he happens to be there at #9 . . .

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    The only thing I've seen in that regard is that 'he was forced to drop into coverage that is why he got so few sacks in college'.

    This guy is all projection rather than production and that worries me.
    Watch him...he's everywhere...plenty of plays where he forces a quick throw,gets in the QB's face etc...and again this is with 20 or 30% fewer opportunities to get after the passer.

    The difference I see with him is that the 'excuse' in this case seems legit...he was dropped into coverage so often because he's so good at it.The guy is a freak and brings some unique skills and athleticism to the position.

    There are no guarantees with any player but when I see guys like Ansah with even less production who almost never dropped into coverage I'm worried.So I understand your argument and personally I always think production trumps everything but with Jordan I can see why he might turn out like JPP or even Aldon Smith.Neither of those two had overwhelming sack or tfl numbers.

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