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Thread: McShay v. Kiper: Single Most NFL Ready Player in 2013 Draft

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesR View Post

    I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here, it's all just a matter of opinion.
    +1.

    Except some of these mokes really think their opinion matters or has any validity.

    They watch tape, you know.

    _
    Last edited by JStokes; 04-06-2013 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    +1.

    Except some of these mokes really think their opinion matters or has any validity.

    They watch tape, you know.

    _
    do you watch tape, or simply repeat what a few experts say?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    do you watch tape, or simply repeat what a few experts say?
    Hahahahahaaaaa.

    Exactly.

    _

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    Hahahahahaaaaa.

    Exactly.

    _
    So by your thesis, you're saying that our instincts, and personal knowledge of a player from watching them is irrelevant? That all we should do is listen to what others tell us, and simply reproduce their thoughts?

    No thank you.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I don't see it

    I think Cooper will be a damn good player. Possible pro-bowler.

    But Warmack has legit HOF type potential.

    Warmack = Will Shields

    Cooper = Davin Joseph
    LOL i'm sure there was a similar post last year that looked a little like this:

    DeCastro= Will Shields

    Seriously, was the same last year. DeCastro "can't miss".

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Aldon Smith wasn't a can't miss guy. He had question marks going in. JPP did too. Most of the stud pass rushers in the NFL today were not can't miss guys. This is about projection and talent development.

    And let's not act like there is absolutely no downside with Warmack, like he's guaranteed to be an All-Pro right out of the gate and will never get hurt.

    Every pick carries risk. EVERY SINGLE PICK. He's "safer" than Mingo, but Mingo could also be a game changing player while Warmack never will have that type of impact on his own.

    I would much rather roll the dice on a dynamic, game altering guy than play it safe. You and I have a difference of opinion on that, and I suppose it's not going to change.
    I AGREE. You gotta risk it sometimes. Look at the Giants, just like you said. JPP had big question marks, how's that working out for them?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    So by your thesis, you're saying that our instincts, and personal knowledge of a player from watching them is irrelevant? That all we should do is listen to what others tell us, and simply reproduce their thoughts?

    No thank you.
    No, what he's saying is that people like you & Paradise seem to spout opinions as fact as it relates to the draft.
    Because you watch film.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    No, what he's saying is that people like you & Paradise seem to spout opinions as fact as it relates to the draft.
    Because you watch film.
    That's how the draft works.

    You're only as good as your previous evaluations, because at that point in time it can't be called fact.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    So by your thesis, you're saying that our instincts, and personal knowledge of a player from watching them is irrelevant? That all we should do is listen to what others tell us, and simply reproduce their thoughts?

    No thank you.
    No--you're just full of yourself.

    What "tape" do you watch? Do you get coaches film of every player from every Division I program? Do you tape every game and break down players play by play? All of them? Do you have access to players, coaches, teammates?

    I watch college football, I've been watching since 1975. I know who can play and who can't. I also have a real career where I can't spend 15 hours a day "watching tape". So I see what I see, I watch college football programs, I watch youtube highlights, I read draft experts magazines--you know the REAL expert opinions who do this for a living and actually have access to tape and to players and coaches--I take ALL of that and I come up with my useless opinions. Which is no more or less than what your opinions are.

    And if you're NOT watching 15 hours a day watching tape, then LOLGFY because your opinion means nothing more than anyone else's here.

    Btw, I've seen more of Ryan Nassib and Justin Pugh than you could possibly have so I honestly don't give a half baked crap about what you think about anyone.

    Seriously, get over yourself.

    You ain't a scout, you ain't working for an NFL team, you ain't no expert.

    Regardless of what you think of yourself.

    It's all just subjective opinion.

    Btw, let's have a friendly wager--I think AJ McCarron goes top 15 next year, you're on record as saying he's a 7th rounder. Btw, McShay disagrees with you, by about 6 rounds.

    How about we split the difference--if McCarron goes 3rd round or better, I win--4th round or worse, you win. I'll even give you a round.

    Winner has to put something in their status about how the other is more of an expert?

    How about it film watching NFL team building expert?

    Watches film. What a tool.

    Really?

    This is the internet, kid. You know, fake reality.

    _

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    No--you're just full of yourself.

    What "tape" do you watch? Do you get coaches film of every player from every Division I program? Do you tape every game and break down players play by play? All of them? Do you have access to players, coaches, teammates?

    I watch college football, I've been watching since 1975. I know who can play and who can't. I also have a real career where I can't spend 15 hours a day "watching tape". So I see what I see, I watch college football programs, I watch youtube highlights, I read draft experts magazines--you know the REAL expert opinions who do this for a living and actually have access to tape and to players and coaches--I take ALL of that and I come up with my useless opinions. Which is no more or less than what your opinions are.

    And if you're NOT watching 15 hours a day watching tape, then LOLGFY because your opinion means nothing more than anyone else's here.

    Btw, I've seen more of Ryan Nassib and Justin Pugh than you could possibly have so I honestly don't give a half baked crap about what you think about anyone.

    Seriously, get over yourself.

    You ain't a scout, you ain't working for an NFL team, you ain't no expert.

    Regardless of what you think of yourself.

    It's all just subjective opinion.

    Btw, let's have a friendly wager--I think AJ McCarron goes top 15 next year, you're on record as saying he's a 7th rounder. Btw, McShay disagrees with you, by about 6 rounds.

    How about we split the difference--if McCarron goes 3rd round or better, I win--4th round or worse, you win. I'll even give you a round.

    Winner has to put something in their status about how the other is more of an expert?

    How about it film watching NFL team building expert?

    Watches film. What a tool.

    Really?

    This is the internet, kid. You know, fake reality.

    _


  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    No--you're just full of yourself.

    What "tape" do you watch? Do you get coaches film of every player from every Division I program? Do you tape every game and break down players play by play? All of them? Do you have access to players, coaches, teammates?

    I watch college football, I've been watching since 1975. I know who can play and who can't. I also have a real career where I can't spend 15 hours a day "watching tape". So I see what I see, I watch college football programs, I watch youtube highlights, I read draft experts magazines--you know the REAL expert opinions who do this for a living and actually have access to tape and to players and coaches--I take ALL of that and I come up with my useless opinions. Which is no more or less than what your opinions are.

    And if you're NOT watching 15 hours a day watching tape, then LOLGFY because your opinion means nothing more than anyone else's here.

    Btw, I've seen more of Ryan Nassib and Justin Pugh than you could possibly have so I honestly don't give a half baked crap about what you think about anyone.

    Seriously, get over yourself.

    You ain't a scout, you ain't working for an NFL team, you ain't no expert.

    Regardless of what you think of yourself.

    It's all just subjective opinion.

    Btw, let's have a friendly wager--I think AJ McCarron goes top 15 next year, you're on record as saying he's a 7th rounder. Btw, McShay disagrees with you, by about 6 rounds.

    How about we split the difference--if McCarron goes 3rd round or better, I win--4th round or worse, you win. I'll even give you a round.

    Winner has to put something in their status about how the other is more of an expert?

    How about it film watching NFL team building expert?

    Watches film. What a tool.

    Really?

    This is the internet, kid. You know, fake reality.

    _
    Great post. While you are in this thread, what are your opinions on Nassib? Would you take him at 39? I was really high on him and was sold on him at 39, and for whatever reason, all the media talk about Manuel may have swayed me his direction, even though whenever I watched FSU I was not all that impressed with him.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by NYJCAP2 View Post
    That's how the draft works.

    You're only as good as your previous evaluations, because at that point in time it can't be called fact.
    Exactly.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    No--you're just full of yourself.

    What "tape" do you watch? Do you get coaches film of every player from every Division I program? Do you tape every game and break down players play by play? All of them? Do you have access to players, coaches, teammates?

    I watch college football, I've been watching since 1975. I know who can play and who can't. I also have a real career where I can't spend 15 hours a day "watching tape". So I see what I see, I watch college football programs, I watch youtube highlights, I read draft experts magazines--you know the REAL expert opinions who do this for a living and actually have access to tape and to players and coaches--I take ALL of that and I come up with my useless opinions. Which is no more or less than what your opinions are.

    And if you're NOT watching 15 hours a day watching tape, then LOLGFY because your opinion means nothing more than anyone else's here.

    Btw, I've seen more of Ryan Nassib and Justin Pugh than you could possibly have so I honestly don't give a half baked crap about what you think about anyone.

    Seriously, get over yourself.

    You ain't a scout, you ain't working for an NFL team, you ain't no expert.

    Regardless of what you think of yourself.

    It's all just subjective opinion.

    Btw, let's have a friendly wager--I think AJ McCarron goes top 15 next year, you're on record as saying he's a 7th rounder. Btw, McShay disagrees with you, by about 6 rounds.

    How about we split the difference--if McCarron goes 3rd round or better, I win--4th round or worse, you win. I'll even give you a round.

    Winner has to put something in their status about how the other is more of an expert?

    How about it film watching NFL team building expert?

    Watches film. What a tool.

    Really?

    This is the internet, kid. You know, fake reality.

    _
    No, I believe he's a 4th rounder, first off. And yeah, I'd like to wager that.

    I know for a fact that I know more than you. You're just an arrogant angry man, that fights with everyone and anyone on JI. I have a loss of respect from you seeing you bait so many posters. I know there are people on this site that know what they're talking about, then there are guys like you whom will chop someones head off if they disagree with you.


    How does me watching film and you not watching film make me the bad guy? Because I base my beliefs off what I watch, and you base yours off what school they went to and if the name is cool?

    Nassib is a mediocre prospect. Has no touch on his balls, and can't throw a deep ball.

    I love Pugh, and have been on record numerous times.

    And someones opinion means more than others if one person never saw the guy play besides a highlight reel, and one has watched cutups of their games.

    Go ahead tell me Warmack is the best player in this draft. I won't disagree. I'll disagree that there is better value in the draft. That a stud off the edge gives a team another weapon that a guard puts a minimal impact on a team.

    To win in this league you gotta rush the passer, you gotta throw the ball. We have a pro bowl LT, a RT with untapped potential, and an all-pro C. We have bigger holes to fill, like our best PR had 5.5 sacks last year. We don't have a playmaker at S. No receiver has 1k yards in the Sanchez era. Bigger needs for bigger players.

    Say I'm arrogant? Cocky? Obnoxious? Maybe... Say I'm wrong.. no.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post


    You're recent mocks the last few years aren't one to talk.

  15. #55
    Oh, by the way, this is coming from no other than the duo of Stokes and Untouchable. The Warmack brothers.

    Same people that consider it a sin to think Warmack at 9 is a bad idea. Pot meet kettle!?

    BTW, I've also been on record the last month saying that Cooper was better than Warmack, especially in a ZBS. More athletic, better pull guard to cause havoc, former wrestler, looks for contact.

    Hypocritical to say the least, as the one who says I'm full of myself is the same guy that baits every poster on JI if they disagree. You need help.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    Oh, by the way, this is coming from no other than the duo of Stokes and Untouchable. The Warmack brothers.

    Same people that consider it a sin to think Warmack at 9 is a bad idea. Pot meet kettle!?

    BTW, I've also been on record the last month saying that Cooper was better than Warmack, especially in a ZBS. More athletic, better pull guard to cause havoc, former wrestler, looks for contact.

    Hypocritical to say the least, as the one who says I'm full of myself is the same guy that baits every poster on JI if they disagree. You need help.
    Actually agree on Cooper, I think he fits a Marty offense better, with Marty the days of ground & pound are over.
    I like Coopers athleticism & body type, I think he'll be great at turn blocking allowing our RBs to run up behind him.
    If we do get Tampas pick at 13 & ended up with either Dion or Mingo @ 9 and Cooper at 13! Holy chit.
    That would be the start of a kickazz draft with 2-7 ahead of you.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    You're recent mocks the last few years aren't one to talk.
    LOL

    And?

    I'm not the one parading around claiming to be some sort of expert and constantly talking about "breaking down tape". We all do this stuff for fun. Tony is the only guy around these parts who is a professional with inside info.

    You take this sh*t really seriously, huh?

    And you still didn't answer Stokes' question. Please enlighten us as to who provides you with all of this "tape". I'm sure we're all anxious to know.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I just can't think of a better pick for us than Warmack.

    Dion Jordan is the only edgerusher with a 1st round grade that doesn't scare the sh*t out of me and I don't see any way that he's still on the board at #9.

    Like I said before, if Warmack is out there annihilating everyone in front of him and turns out to be an all-pro for the next decade, then no one is going to give a sh*t that we took him in the Top 10.

    He makes the running game better and will help whoever is behind center stay on their feet.

    I know Warmack's your guy and you've stuck with that for awhile now, so for that reason I value your opinion on him (even if I take it with a grain of salt). I have a question, legitimate question I was hoping you could answer.

    I've been seeing more and more mocks and ranking from dozens of different places (mind you, I take any of this stuff with a grain of salt also). A lot of things It seems an increasing amount of these articles have Cooper ranked before Warmack, and going before him in the draft and it seems like I've been seeing more and more of them.
    Obviously this is their opinion, but it's much more than one person who believes Cooper is the better of the two. So my question is, why are the other rankings wrong. Why is Warmack THAT much better?
    Secondly, if Warmack is everything you talk to him up as, this once a decade, dominating can't miss, etc. I would think is that was true there would be far fewer claiming him to be #2. Actually I would think if everything you are saying is correct, there should be hardly anyone questioning him. I could be misunderstanding you, but you paint him as the Andrew Luck (talent, and can't miss factor) of the Guard position. The type of G you break tradition and take top 10, which is almost unheard of. Last year next to no one question Luck as being as close to a dominant sure thing as possible... It seems
    like you paint Warmack in the same regard. (I understand the difference between guards and QB - that's not what I'm saying) I'm just wondering why a player the caliber of everything you've claimed would still be questioned as the best guard in this draft by many?
    Is it fair to say that this is a draft with two terrific guard prospect that project to be dominant at the next level, without all of the best G in X number of years, unquestionably take him @9, much earlier than most would say you should consider a guard?

    What do you think?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    Oh, by the way, this is coming from no other than the duo of Stokes and Untouchable. The Warmack brothers.

    Same people that consider it a sin to think Warmack at 9 is a bad idea. Pot meet kettle!?

    BTW, I've also been on record the last month saying that Cooper was better than Warmack, especially in a ZBS. More athletic, better pull guard to cause havoc, former wrestler, looks for contact.

    Hypocritical to say the least, as the one who says I'm full of myself is the same guy that baits every poster on JI if they disagree. You need help.
    Please see my above post to UT

  20. #60
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    At this point, as long as we don't pick Austin or Mingo at #9, I'll accept whatever the decision is.

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