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Thread: McShay v. Kiper: Single Most NFL Ready Player in 2013 Draft

  1. #61
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    Even if it's Ziggy ?

  2. #62
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    You got me there.

    I didn't put his name there because he's all but assured no to end up in G&W.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    No, I believe he's a 4th rounder, first off. And yeah, I'd like to wager that.
    So 3 weeks ago you said McCarron was a 7th rounder.

    Now you're saying he's a 4th rounder.

    He hasn't played a game in over 2 months--how has he gotten any better? How has he moved up 3 rounds in your expert opinion?

    Oh, I get it, you've been "watching tape" on him.

    _

  4. #64
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    it may be relevant to the OG discussion going on here ... Ross Tucker and Bill Polian on Sirius both dismissed the idea of drafting O-line (they started the conversation comparing slausons deal to levitre's deal ... So I assume specially they were inferring OG's) ... They both stated picking OG in top 15 is mistake (even if player will be greatest ever) due to value of position



    Ljr

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    Quote Originally Posted by lamont_jordan_rules View Post
    it may be relevant to the OG discussion going on here ... Ross Tucker and Bill Polian on Sirius both dismissed the idea of drafting O-line (they started the conversation comparing slausons deal to levitre's deal ... So I assume specially they were inferring OG's) ... They both stated picking OG in top 15 is mistake (even if player will be greatest ever) due to value of position



    Ljr
    Some years the draft is just full of top of the round bust players.

    With the #9, I say you have to get someone who can contribute, and do it with in the first 1-2 seasons due to the money they are making. If Idzik believes a guard is the best player, highest grade, and can start and effect the game from day 1, draft him.

    Look at the year Gholston was selected. That draft was full of under performers. If we had drafted a pro bowl guard instead of Vern, would you still be complaining? Of course, in a vacume, a pass rusher is better than a guard, but what is better, a great guard or Bryan Thomas part 2? Not even a bust, but a decent player who lasts a long time, can set the edge, and can get 7-8 sacks in a contract year.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I just can't think of a better pick for us than Warmack.

    Dion Jordan is the only edgerusher with a 1st round grade that doesn't scare the sh*t out of me and I don't see any way that he's still on the board at #9.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDubz View Post
    I know Warmack's your guy and you've stuck with that for awhile now, so for that reason I value your opinion on him (even if I take it with a grain of salt). I have a question, legitimate question I was hoping you could answer.

    I've been seeing more and more mocks and ranking from dozens of different places (mind you, I take any of this stuff with a grain of salt also). A lot of things It seems an increasing amount of these articles have Cooper ranked before Warmack, and going before him in the draft and it seems like I've been seeing more and more of them.
    Obviously this is their opinion, but it's much more than one person who believes Cooper is the better of the two. So my question is, why are the other rankings wrong. Why is Warmack THAT much better?
    Secondly, if Warmack is everything you talk to him up as, this once a decade, dominating can't miss, etc. I would think is that was true there would be far fewer claiming him to be #2. Actually I would think if everything you are saying is correct, there should be hardly anyone questioning him. I could be misunderstanding you, but you paint him as the Andrew Luck (talent, and can't miss factor) of the Guard position. The type of G you break tradition and take top 10, which is almost unheard of. Last year next to no one question Luck as being as close to a dominant sure thing as possible... It seems
    like you paint Warmack in the same regard. (I understand the difference between guards and QB - that's not what I'm saying) I'm just wondering why a player the caliber of everything you've claimed would still be questioned as the best guard in this draft by many?
    Is it fair to say that this is a draft with two terrific guard prospect that project to be dominant at the next level, without all of the best G in X number of years, unquestionably take him @9, much earlier than most would say you should consider a guard?

    What do you think?
    This was an honest question UT - not just busting balls. I'm interested in your opinion because you've obviously don't your HW on Warmack.

    I just can't get over the thought that if a player at any position is THAT much of a rare, dominating, once in a forever player - seemingly as close to can't miss as it gets (this is the impression I get
    from you, I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you).

    If Warmack is this player ,how is it even possible for Cooper to be in the conversation as the top guard?

    To be clear, I would love a pass rusher, but agree nearly all are questionable. I wouldn't be angry with the safe pick if they took a Guard. I see two excellent guard prospects. Trying to better understand the extent that you tell up Warmack...

  7. #67
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    Every year it's the same sh!t with the guards.......Every year it's the best guard ever, Hall of Fame lock that we just NEED to take in the 1st round.....

    I really don't get it.....We aren't getting anywhere with a great guard (Which isn't even a given). The difference between a potential great guard and good guard is negligible

    If we can land a stud offensive playmaker, a stud pass rusher, even a do it all safety with our 1st rounder.....well then that's some real progress for us

    There are very solid interior linemen to be had throughout the draft......

    If we take a friggin guard top 10, might as well take the best kicker in the 2nd round, and the best punter in the 3rd

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDubz View Post
    This was an honest question UT - not just busting balls. I'm interested in your opinion because you've obviously don't your HW on Warmack.

    I just can't get over the thought that if a player at any position is THAT much of a rare, dominating, once in a forever player - seemingly as close to can't miss as it gets (this is the impression I get
    from you, I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you).

    If Warmack is this player ,how is it even possible for Cooper to be in the conversation as the top guard?

    To be clear, I would love a pass rusher, but agree nearly all are questionable. I wouldn't be angry with the safe pick if they took a Guard. I see two excellent guard prospects. Trying to better understand the extent that you tell up Warmack...
    I'm a big believer in football games being won and lost in the trenches.

    Yeah, this offense is devoid of playmakers. But guess what? So is this draft class. The top end of this class is totally devoid of blue chip talent at the skill positions. That's why you'll see as many as 5-6 OL taken in the Top 15. There is no stud QB, no Julio Jones/AJ Green type of receiver, no dominant tailback in the Trent Richardson mold, etc.

    And none of these passrushers really excite me at all. I view Jarvis Jones and Dion Jordan as the best of a rather weak, questionable bunch.

    Warmack is an absolute road grader with no real flaws in his game except that he doesn't run like a 300+ lb gazelle like these new breed of OL (ie Johnson/Cooper).

    He explodes into his blocks, plays with a nasty ass mean streak, and is adept in pass protection in addition to being a monster in the running game.

    As for the Warmack/Cooper discussion, this just happens to be a year where you have two stud OG prospects in the same draft. A truly rare occurence. I don't think you can go wrong with either. Cooper may be the more pure athlete of the two and perhaps a better fit for a zone blocking scheme, but I've watched Warmack take a sh*t on the best DL in the country on a consistent basis for the past 4 years now. Warmack has legit HOF potential, how many other prospects in this draft would you attach that label to?

    Build a dominant OL and all of the sudden a guy like Mike Goodson goes from average change of pace back, to a potential gamebreaker with his raw speed and receiving ability.

    Build a dominant OL, and maybe Sanchez goes from gunshy puss to a respectable QB.

    If I had my way, we wouldn't even think about defense in the 1st round unless Jordan drops. I say take Warmack at #9 and Eifert/Austin at #13.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Koopa View Post
    Every year it's the same sh!t with the guards.......Every year it's the best guard ever, Hall of Fame lock that we just NEED to take in the 1st round.....

    I really don't get it.....We aren't getting anywhere with a great guard (Which isn't even a given). The difference between a potential great guard and good guard is negligible

    If we can land a stud offensive playmaker, a stud pass rusher, even a do it all safety with our 1st rounder.....well then that's some real progress for us

    There are very solid interior linemen to be had throughout the draft......

    If we take a friggin guard top 10, might as well take the best kicker in the 2nd round, and the best punter in the 3rd
    And every year it's the same sh*t with these passrushers.

    "Oh, this guys the next DeMarcus Ware!"

    "Oh, this guy could be Rex's new Adalius Thomas"

    You guys threw that crap in my face so much last year regarding Melvin Ingram that I almost started to believe it.

    A guy like DeCastro was totally average in comparison to both Warmack and Cooper. The guy was a damn solid technician, but always had problems with larger bullrushers and many questioned his overall toughness. That isn't the case at all with Warmack and Cooper, especially Warmack.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamont_jordan_rules View Post
    it may be relevant to the OG discussion going on here ... Ross Tucker and Bill Polian on Sirius both dismissed the idea of drafting O-line (they started the conversation comparing slausons deal to levitre's deal ... So I assume specially they were inferring OG's) ... They both stated picking OG in top 15 is mistake (even if player will be greatest ever) due to value of position



    Ljr
    Yup. Been saying this. Besides, Warmack is as slow as dirt and hardly an athletic specimen. He won't get up field without a wheelbarrow (a big one), so he's hardly perfect or the bestest ever. He's tough and solid in the trenches, that I would agree. Worth a #9? Not to me. But I won't be amazed if some team bites on him just because of his overall rating... I'm not a fan of picking TE's high either, but Eifert does a lot more from a value perspective than Warmack, for example. The Jets need solid, quality additions at OL, but not at the expense of the high skill holes.
    Last edited by long island leprechaun; 04-12-2013 at 06:30 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Koopa View Post
    Every year it's the same sh!t with the guards.......Every year it's the best guard ever, Hall of Fame lock that we just NEED to take in the 1st round.....

    I really don't get it.....We aren't getting anywhere with a great guard (Which isn't even a given). The difference between a potential great guard and good guard is negligible

    If we can land a stud offensive playmaker, a stud pass rusher, even a do it all safety with our 1st rounder.....well then that's some real progress for us

    There are very solid interior linemen to be had throughout the draft......

    If we take a friggin guard top 10, might as well take the best kicker in the 2nd round, and the best punter in the 3rd
    +1 and decastro was rated higher than cooper by many

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    And every year it's the same sh*t with these passrushers.

    "Oh, this guys the next DeMarcus Ware!"

    "Oh, this guy could be Rex's new Adalius Thomas"

    You guys threw that crap in my face so much last year regarding Melvin Ingram that I almost started to believe it.

    A guy like DeCastro was totally average in comparison to both Warmack and Cooper. The guy was a damn solid technician, but always had problems with larger bullrushers and many questioned his overall toughness. That isn't the case at all with Warmack and Cooper, especially Warmack.
    Here's the thing though....I'd much rather strive for the next DeMarcus Ware than the next amazing guard when you have a top 10 pick

    A guy like DeCastro was the next Hall of Fame lock at this time last season and is now average in comparison to the next crop.....it never ends. Warmack is a great guard prospect but he can't run at all and isn't perfect pass blocking......Cooper doesn't maul people like Warmack off the line.

    No one is saying Ziggy, Mingo, or Jarvis Jones will be the next anything.....But if our FO believes that one of them can develop into a great pass rusher you gotta take him over a guard who seems safer

    There are no locks in the draft.....Considering everyone isn't a lock, I'd much rather strive for greatness. And if we were to trade down, I wouldn't have a problem with someone like Cooper.....Just not at 9, it's a bad use of resources

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    So 3 weeks ago you said McCarron was a 7th rounder.

    Now you're saying he's a 4th rounder.

    He hasn't played a game in over 2 months--how has he gotten any better? How has he moved up 3 rounds in your expert opinion?

    Oh, I get it, you've been "watching tape" on him.

    _
    Actually I've said on numerous occasions that he's a 4th round pick. I can easily go into my post history and prove how idiotic you always sound, once again.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    LOL

    And?

    I'm not the one parading around claiming to be some sort of expert and constantly talking about "breaking down tape". We all do this stuff for fun. Tony is the only guy around these parts who is a professional with inside info.

    You take this sh*t really seriously, huh?

    And you still didn't answer Stokes' question. Please enlighten us as to who provides you with all of this "tape". I'm sure we're all anxious to know.

    First off I love college football, and know a lot of the players during the season.

    Second there are plenty of full game footage on Youtube.

    Third I have a Hudl account where full game tape is available, fourth google is your best friend.

    Dagger.

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