Enjoy an Ads-Free Jets Insider - Become a Jets Insider VIP!
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 74

Thread: McShay v. Kiper: Single Most NFL Ready Player in 2013 Draft

  1. #21
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    7,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    To me, it's simple...

    Guys like Jordan, Mingo, Jones, Ansah, Moore, etc all carry red flags.

    People expecting to get a double digit sack artist at #9 are being extremely optimistic IMO. There is no Von Miller or Aldon Smith in this class.

    And I'm not in favor of taking a receiver like Austin or Patterson at #9 because, quite frankly, I don't view either as an elite Julio Jones/AJ Green type of prospect. Hell, I like guys like Hopkins, Patton and Hunter just as much if not more than those guys and at least one of them is bound to still be on the board at #39.

    This draft is weak as hell at the top. Weakest in recent memory.

    So I say take the stud OG that can make an impact from day 1 and is a safe, reliable pick with little to no downside.

    Yes, this is a deep draft class for interior OL, but make no mistake, there is a large dropoff in talent after Warmack and Cooper go off the board.
    Aldon Smith wasn't a can't miss guy. He had question marks going in. JPP did too. Most of the stud pass rushers in the NFL today were not can't miss guys. This is about projection and talent development.

    And let's not act like there is absolutely no downside with Warmack, like he's guaranteed to be an All-Pro right out of the gate and will never get hurt.

    Every pick carries risk. EVERY SINGLE PICK. He's "safer" than Mingo, but Mingo could also be a game changing player while Warmack never will have that type of impact on his own.

    I would much rather roll the dice on a dynamic, game altering guy than play it safe. You and I have a difference of opinion on that, and I suppose it's not going to change.

  2. #22
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    northern jersey
    Posts
    2,979
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm loving what Idzik is doing so far, but if he picks a Guard with the 9th pick in the first round with his first pick ever, we're in trouble.

  3. #23
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe W. Namath View Post
    Trade revis for pick and you take Warmack at 9 and austin with the bucs pick.
    Like the idea

  4. #24
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    12,633
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    I'm loving what Idzik is doing so far, but if he picks a Guard with the 9th pick in the first round with his first pick ever, we're in trouble.
    wow! How original! How about we let the guy conduct the draft. Then after a period of time we discuss if we are in trouble or not! If Warmack has a great career , what will you say then?

  5. #25
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,311
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    To me, it's simple...

    Guys like Jordan, Mingo, Jones, Ansah, Moore, etc all carry red flags.

    People expecting to get a double digit sack artist at #9 are being extremely optimistic IMO. There is no Von Miller or Aldon Smith in this class.

    And I'm not in favor of taking a receiver like Austin or Patterson at #9 because, quite frankly, I don't view either as an elite Julio Jones/AJ Green type of prospect. Hell, I like guys like Hopkins, Patton and Hunter just as much if not more than those guys and at least one of them is bound to still be on the board at #39.

    This draft is weak as hell at the top. Weakest in recent memory.

    So I say take the stud OG that can make an impact from day 1 and is a safe, reliable pick with little to no downside.

    Yes, this is a deep draft class for interior OL, but make no mistake, there is a large dropoff in talent after Warmack and Cooper go off the board.
    Clay Matthews, Demarcus Ware, Tamba Hali, Justin Houston all were flawed as well. 3-4 OLB's generally are more flawed because they have to do so much.

    I'm about to blow JI's brains.

    He lacks the ideal frame you look for in an every-down end and could be limited to situational duties in the NFL because of his lack of bulk.

    Even with his long arms, when he works in-line, he struggles to disengage when the larger blockers lock on to him. However, he shows excellent snap anticipation ability and easily eludes blockers with his initial burst into the backfield.

    He shows good hand usage and extension to stave off the blockers trying to get into his chest, but if they lock on, he can be neutralized.

    He has raw pass rush technique and needs to develop better counter moves, as he relies mostly on his sudden burst to make plays in the backfield.

    He will need to add bulk in order to remain a down lineman, but his frame may be at maximum growth potential. If he moves to linebacker, he is better suited to operate as a weak-side rush linebacker in a 3-4 alignment in order to get value from him immediately.
    Guess who's scouting report that was? Mingo? Collins? Jordan?


    Demarcus Ware....
    Last edited by K-Ro 25; 04-05-2013 at 07:24 PM.

  6. #26
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    northern jersey
    Posts
    2,979
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    wow! How original! How about we let the guy conduct the draft. Then after a period of time we discuss if we are in trouble or not! If Warmack has a great career , what will you say then?
    I'd say "woopie damn doo, we have great Guard. whoopy!"

    Then I'd say "where did it get us having a great Guard?"

    Guards are the least important players on a Football field. My beloved Jets have to get PREMIUM F*CKING PLAYERS at PREMIUM POSITIONS while they have a PREMIUM Draft position at 9.

    That's what I will say.

  7. #27
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    7,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    I'd say "woopie damn doo, we have great Guard. whoopy!"

    Then I'd say "where did it get us having a great Guard?"

    Guards are the least important players on a Football field. My beloved Jets have to get PREMIUM F*CKING PLAYERS at PREMIUM POSITIONS while they have a PREMIUM Draft position at 9.

    That's what I will say.
    Exactly.

    Put Larry Allen in his prime (or any other great OG) on the 2012 Jets. They still finish with 6 wins.

  8. #28
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    northern jersey
    Posts
    2,979
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Exactly.

    Put Larry Allen in his prime (or any other great OG) on the 2012 Jets. They still finish with 6 wins.
    +1

    and btw Larry Allen was a 2nd rounder. Not a top 10 pick for God sakes. Plenty of time to get a gosh-darn Guard...

  9. #29
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,311
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    I'd say "woopie damn doo, we have great Guard. whoopy!"

    Then I'd say "where did it get us having a great Guard?"

    Guards are the least important players on a Football field. My beloved Jets have to get PREMIUM F*CKING PLAYERS at PREMIUM POSITIONS while they have a PREMIUM Draft position at 9.

    That's what I will say.

    Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!

  10. #30
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,311
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by iahawkeyejet View Post
    I am in the vast minority, but I think Cooper will be a better pro than Warmack.

    Agreed. Cooper is far more athletic, also looks for contact. Former wrestler. The pulls we'd have Cooper run would be similar to what San Fran does. Throw Cooper outside on swing plays and Goodson or a rookie ala Barner or Maysonet would have a field day. Only way I'm even thinking about drafting a Guard in the 1st is if we make a deal for 13.

  11. #31
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    northern jersey
    Posts
    2,979
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    Agreed. Cooper is far more athletic, also looks for contact. Former wrestler. The pulls we'd have Cooper run would be similar to what San Fran does. Throw Cooper outside on swing plays and Goodson or a rookie ala Barner or Maysonet would have a field day. Only way I'm even thinking about drafting a Guard in the 1st is if we make a deal for 13.
    Still too early, K. If I've got the 9th & 13th pick in the Draft, I'm swinging for the fences.
    Last edited by Yankeejet22; 04-05-2013 at 08:23 PM.

  12. #32
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,311
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    Still too early, K. If I've got the 9th & 13th pick in the Draft, I'm swing for the fences.

    I definitely agree. In my mock I have Jordan and Austin.

    9. A. Dion
    B. Mingo

    13. A. Cordarrelle
    B. Austin
    C. Vaccarro

  13. #33
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,899
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    I think you're wrong.

    On the Alabama website, it says right there, in black and white that he gave up 3.5 sacks in 287 pass attempts in 2012. There are no sack numbers provided for previous seasons, but if the 3.5 number were his career mark, why would they put it next to 287 pass attempts?

    http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-foo..._chance00.html

    Where did you get that information?

    Meanwhile, Barrett Jones didn't allow a single sack all season while playing center. I would rather take him in round 2 than Warmack at 9th overall.
    +1

  14. #34
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,899
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    I'm loving what Idzik is doing so far, but if he picks a Guard with the 9th pick in the first round with his first pick ever, we're in trouble.
    He won't


  15. #35
    Hall of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Atlanta via NJ
    Posts
    7,657
    Post Thanks / Like
    Aren't most "experts" saying this draft's deepest at OL/DL?


    If so, to me would seem to be the right move to pick those spots rounds 3 and later







    Ljr

  16. #36
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    484
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Exactly.

    Put Larry Allen in his prime (or any other great OG) on the 2012 Jets. They still finish with 6 wins.
    Dont buy that. We lost a couple of close games where we couldnt rush the ball, with an Allen calibre guard between Brick and Mangold, we'd certainly have rushed more effectively and won a couple more games. Wouldnt make us world beaters, but better.

    Im with the Warmack crew. I dont understand folks who say we havent skipped a beat as our line has deteriorated in recent years - Slauson has improved but Vlad has been awful and early Slauson was pretty bad too. Sanchez has deteriorated a ton, but he's also become much more scared as a player and developed happy feet through the years based on some of the hits hes taken.

  17. #37
    All League
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,994
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    +1 on the minimal impact part.

    This is what I've been saying all along. He will not make this team any better. The 2012 Jets are still 6-10 with Chance Warmack on the team. The 2013 Jets are staring 5 or 6 wins in the face with Chance Warmack on the team.

    And everyone talks about how great he is, how he's a can't miss prospect while completely ignoring the fact that he gave up more than his fair share of sacks this year, on a team that barely throws the ball. Pass protection isn't his strong suit. I don't think he will be a bust, but to call him a hall of famer already is pretty dumb.

    So, for me, picking a run-blocking mauler at 9 overall is not a bright idea.
    If this guard can rush the passer n nail Brady then I'm interested otherwise Mingo's bingo @ 9 or another passrusher

  18. #38
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    SF via Strong Island
    Posts
    29,327
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by JStokes View Post
    It's not just one guard--you're slotting Warmack between Brick and Mangold.

    _
    I don't know what you call that sandwich, but I'll take two!

  19. #39
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    Agreed. Cooper is far more athletic, also looks for contact. Former wrestler. The pulls we'd have Cooper run would be similar to what San Fran does. Throw Cooper outside on swing plays and Goodson or a rookie ala Barner or Maysonet would have a field day. Only way I'm even thinking about drafting a Guard in the 1st is if we make a deal for 13.
    i agree. i could see the jets taking a wr and g in the first round to get some youth and juice into the offense. but i can't see idzik taking a guard at 9 if they don't get tampa's pick.

  20. #40
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Posts
    5,267
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think the OG vs. OLB debate boils down to - do you want the 95% chance of a very good thing, or a 70% chance of a great thing? (Adjust the numbers as you see fit).

    I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here, it's all just a matter of opinion. I think personally I'll be happy with either, as either pick will improve the team (barring a major bust). Then the argument is only about if we could have improved more by taking the other option.

    And ultimately, what we think of our pick at 9 will be balanced by what we do in the rest of the draft. If we go OG and pick up a decent looking OLB in Rd 2 (or vice versa) taht should appease both camps. I highly doubt we'll ignore one or other of these positions.

    All in all, it'll be one of the more surprising / unpredictable drafts in a while, and will no doubt lead to a lot of debate about the merits / failings during summer, when we have little else to talk about.

    And the media can give us an F either way.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us