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Thread: What's really wrong with the jets?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post


    Agreed. Plus, this dope.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMJK View Post
    I wish everything were as simple as you imply; I'm not a Sanchez guy but he has had his moments and has looked very good during his first few years. It is easy to say he sucks because of last year when the team was completely disoriented and Sanchez lost his composure. He didn't step up. I think he is broke but who knows. You seem to have all the answers so I'll defer to your obvious wisdom.
    Sanchez looked good in spurts, and looked very good in the playoffs. No disagreement there. But go back and watch those first two seasons. He was wildly inconsistent even then. The talent of the team overcame some of his performances. Look at some of those nail-biters that we won narrowly against lesser teams during the 2010 season. Sanchez played poorly in many of those games.

    The talent on the team isn't what it was in 2010, but his experience should have improved his game to the point where he could make up for the loss in talent elsewhere on the team. Instead he's either remained inconsistent in some areas of his game, or regressed badly in others.

    Part of that is he isn't mentally tough. He let the Tebow situation get to him. Instead of using that as motivation to improve (as Drew Brees did in SD when the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers), Sanchez folded. I had faith in Sanchez up to this past season. He just looked like a guy that had given up.

  3. #23
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    Owner and Head coach for sure

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourceworx View Post
    I'm 34. While not as much as you, I have experienced my fair share of Jet-induced misery.

    I was a big supporter of Sanchez up to this past season. But if you go back and watch that 2010 season, he really didn't play well for big parts of that year. The more I think about it, the more I think the talent on that team overcame Mark's many shortcomings.
    Yep..even in 2009 , without the COLTS handing us that last win, we were 8 and 8.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by persiussa View Post
    I was stunned the other day listening to a season preview on nfl radio for the afc east. The talked about the jets and their perception was that our offensive line was great but we fell short because of a lack of talent in the skill positions. I know we're not great in skill positions but I feel we're serviceable there. My personal evaluation of the team is if we can fix the o line and outside linebacker positions that this team could be better than people think.

    In your opinion what part of the team needs to be fixed most? The o li e or the skill positions?
    Clearly you get what the problems with this team are. the clowns blaming the qb just dont get it. now i am not sayin the qb play needs to be better and sanchez must improve ball protection (ie fumbles ) interceptions i can live with. i did think and the end of the year it was all marks fault then we started mcleroy and he was sacked 11 times now this kid is not the most talented guy in the world but he is smart finalist for a rhodes scholarship is nothing to laugh at so thinking he dosent know where the ball need to go is foolish. the guy was hammered all day but a suspect D and bad o line blitz pickup. we need to upgrade the o line and they have let the gaurds go so managment agrees same with the olbs

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourceworx View Post
    Sanchez looked good in spurts, and looked very good in the playoffs. No disagreement there. But go back and watch those first two seasons. He was wildly inconsistent even then. The talent of the team overcame some of his performances. Look at some of those nail-biters that we won narrowly against lesser teams during the 2010 season. Sanchez played poorly in many of those games.

    The talent on the team isn't what it was in 2010, but his experience should have improved his game to the point where he could make up for the loss in talent elsewhere on the team. Instead he's either remained inconsistent in some areas of his game, or regressed badly in others.

    Part of that is he isn't mentally tough. He let the Tebow situation get to him. Instead of using that as motivation to improve (as Drew Brees did in SD when the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers), Sanchez folded. I had faith in Sanchez up to this past season. He just looked like a guy that had given up.
    I just don't like analysis that say the problem is this or that. Most of the time the real answer is much more complicated. Did Sanchez look back or terrible at times - YES. I agree; however, I think last year was a total disaster in almost every aspect. Our special teams sucked for the first time in a long time. Revis and Holmes got injurred. The Tebow fiasco. New receivers who were learning the game. Remember Hill dropping a key pass against the Pats the first game. RT issues. Aging players.

    To say one area doesn't affect another is naive. When your in the race you play a little harder. When you lose you get accustomed to it. I'm not defending Sanchez because he deserves a lot of blame but he doesn't deserve the blame for Tebow, bad play calling, bad running game, dropped passes. poor routes by receiver, poor blocking by TE etc.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by persiussa View Post
    I was stunned the other day listening to a season preview on nfl radio for the afc east. The talked about the jets and their perception was that our offensive line was great but we fell short because of a lack of talent in the skill positions. I know we're not great in skill positions but I feel we're serviceable there. My personal evaluation of the team is if we can fix the o line and outside linebacker positions that this team could be better than people think.

    In your opinion what part of the team needs to be fixed most? The o li e or the skill positions?
    Huh? I'm not saying the OL is great. But the Jets (Especially if you consider Holmes was hurt last season)), don't have a single skill player that would be considered average, except Holmes and maybe Kerley.

    RB - Not player who has rushed for either 500 yards in a season, or more than 110 carries in a season

    WR - Holmes: Good #2, Kerely: Decent Slot receiver, Hill: Project. Nothing close to a #1 WR

    TE - Cumberland

    QB - Sanchez, Gerrard

    The Jets skill positions are among the worst in the NFL, and I don't even see how this is a debatable point. The OL is average to above average, but if the Jets had good skill players, the OL would be more than enough. Also, having a terrible QB also really hurts an OL.
    Last edited by Batmans A Scientist; 04-09-2013 at 10:11 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    Huh? I'm not saying the OL is great. But the Jets (Especially if you consider Holmes was hurt last season)), don't have a single skill player that would be considered average, except Holmes and maybe Kerley.

    RB - Not player who has rushed for either 500 yards in a season, or more than 110 carries in a season

    WR - Holmes: Good #2, Kerely: Decent Slot receiver, Hill: Project. Nothing close to a #1 WR

    TE - Cumberland

    QB - Sanchez, Gerrard

    The Jets skill positions are among the worst in the NFL, and I don't even see how this is a debatable point. The OL is average to above average, but if the Jets had good skill players, the OL would be more than enough. Also, having a terrible QB also really hurts an OL.
    +1
    Tom Brady would not have made it out of 2012 alive if he was the Jets QB!
    I don't think Sanchez has EVER been coached properly, our Oline regressed horribly, Greene was terrible & even when the oline did give him a hole he stumbled into the safety.
    Can you imagine Brees, Brady, Manning, playing with the crap we rolled out there on offense!
    Look where Greene was signed, as a BACKUP to Chris Johnson in Tennessee!
    Our entire starting offense at the skill positions in 2012 would be backups on 90% of the teams in this league.
    Jets need those Revis picks to upgrade the offense over the next 2 years.
    I don't care how good your defense is, you can't win if you can't score & if you can't score in a league where every rule imposed over the last 5 years makes it easier to score that is an indictment of your drafting.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post




    this times a million

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    +1
    Tom Brady would not have made it out of 2012 alive if he was the Jets QB!
    I don't think Sanchez has EVER been coached properly, our Oline regressed horribly, Greene was terrible & even when the oline did give him a hole he stumbled into the safety.
    Can you imagine Brees, Brady, Manning, playing with the crap we rolled out there on offense!
    Look where Greene was signed, as a BACKUP to Chris Johnson in Tennessee!
    Our entire starting offense at the skill positions in 2012 would be backups on 90% of the teams in this league.
    Jets need those Revis picks to upgrade the offense over the next 2 years.
    I don't care how good your defense is, you can't win if you can't score & if you can't score in a league where every rule imposed over the last 5 years makes it easier to score that is an indictment of your drafting.
    I disagree with this. A good QB masks a LOT of issues. I think a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could make the Jets offense quite good. Because a threat of a great QB makes so much difference. In fact, more than anything, they need a good enough OL, which the Jets do have.

    But when your QB is terrible, you need the other skill positions to pick up the slack (like the Jets did in 2009/10 to some degree), but no offense skill = no chance at all.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourceworx View Post
    Sanchez looked good in spurts, and looked very good in the playoffs. No disagreement there. But go back and watch those first two seasons. He was wildly inconsistent even then. The talent of the team overcame some of his performances. Look at some of those nail-biters that we won narrowly against lesser teams during the 2010 season. Sanchez played poorly in many of those games.

    The talent on the team isn't what it was in 2010, but his experience should have improved his game to the point where he could make up for the loss in talent elsewhere on the team. Instead he's either remained inconsistent in some areas of his game, or regressed badly in others.

    Part of that is he isn't mentally tough. He let the Tebow situation get to him. Instead of using that as motivation to improve (as Drew Brees did in SD when the Chargers drafted Philip Rivers), Sanchez folded. I had faith in Sanchez up to this past season. He just looked like a guy that had given up.
    agreed. i would word the last sentence a bit differently. i would say, he looked like a guy who didn't want to be there anymore. he looked like he's had it with that team. that he's had it with the rex/holmes/revis/tebow/etc circus he helped create. he looked like a guy who was going through the motions, knowing there was little hope of his or the team's success, also knowing, ironically, that his huge cap hit in 2013 prevented the jets from cutting him. and that's what i think he wants at this point, he wants a fresh start, sign with another team pretending to embrace a backup role, get away from nyc and hope there's a strong offensive coaching staff to develop him.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardTodd27 View Post
    True. But finding a franchise QB is very difficult.
    However, if you rebuild our O-line, it'll make the skill position guys a lot better.
    Sanchez desperately needs a running game and time to throw the ball. He doesn't have the skill to succeed without it.
    Over the past four years we've been as good as any team without a franchise QB...

    We need a QB!!!!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    I disagree with this. A good QB masks a LOT of issues. I think a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could make the Jets offense quite good. Because a threat of a great QB makes so much difference. In fact, more than anything, they need a good enough OL, which the Jets do have.

    But when your QB is terrible, you need the other skill positions to pick up the slack (like the Jets did in 2009/10 to some degree), but no offense skill = no chance at all.
    I have another point of view. Did you ever see Tom Brady when he took a few good hits ? He makes sure he runs the ball and get rid of it too quickly. In other words, he is avoiding getting hit again because of the pain/injury factor is in his head. Sanchez took more than his fair share of hits this year and it may have affected his accuracy and season. He is learning a new system on top of everything almost every year. Tom Brady has learned the present system 10 years ago and has had top receivers every year ie.,Moss, Branch,Welker, Gronk.

  14. #34
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    1) We have had the worst staring Qb in the league for a few years.
    2) We have a head coach that only now seems to be realizing what it takes to be a head coach and not a guy with the title that just is a Dcoordinator.
    3) The previous gm saddled us with a few terrible contracts, the guys we need to get rid of most we can't.
    4) The previous gm went too far into one draft strategy direction and totally neglected depth and treated late round picks as inconveniences.
    5) The very nature of the loud boisterous Jets organization has made them a target for all of the media.

    In the grand scheme of things the Jets are just another team in the NFL but it seems like every win counts for two wins and every loss counts for two losses.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    I disagree with this. A good QB masks a LOT of issues. I think a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could make the Jets offense quite good. Because a threat of a great QB makes so much difference. In fact, more than anything, they need a good enough OL, which the Jets do have.

    But when your QB is terrible, you need the other skill positions to pick up the slack (like the Jets did in 2009/10 to some degree), but no offense skill = no chance at all.
    Are you saying without Holmes, without Keller, the way the line played, Greene at RB, and the starting receivers Hill & Gates, Brady would be OK?
    Highly doubt it.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    Are you saying without Holmes, without Keller, the way the line played, Greene at RB, and the starting receivers Hill & Gates, Brady would be OK?
    Highly doubt it.
    This is where we differ. I believe the line looked mediocre or worse because of the skill players behind it.

    Look at Brady's offense when he started

    RB: Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk
    WR: Troy Brown, David Patten, and a young Deion Branch
    TE: Christian Fauria

    Look at the 2006 team

    RB: Broke down Corey Dillon, Lawrence Maroney
    WR: Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown
    TE: Ben Watson

    Better than the Jets, but no one particularly good, Corey Dillon was on fumes at this point and out of the league one year later. Great QBs can mask a bad WR/RB. A great receiver can only do so much for a qb (See Larry Fitzgerald). And when you have neither, then you have the Jets offense in 2012.

  17. #37
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    Ruined our team chasing Nnamdi

  18. #38
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    The 2 things that are wrong with the Jets are also the 2 things that could save the Jets. I don't trust either 1 to save the Jets and that's why i want both gone.


    Here's hoping both prove me wrong.




    Mark Sanchez

    Rex Ryan

  19. #39
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    brady is way overhyped. put a helmet on him and he folds. he succeeds because his oline keeps the rush off him.

    as for the jets, they've never really been able to keep a group of scary good players. they have had some really good players like revis, aaron glenn, abraham, dbrick, mangold but they haven't had a really superior qb since namath or a superior rb since mcneil. mickey shuler was the best te since 1980. and they've never had the on field leadership, at least consistently. the 98-99 team was the only one of recent memory. rex's teams have had good defenses but that's never translated to the offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMJK View Post
    If the Pats lost Brady the playing field is instantly even. One of the biggest reasons Sanchez sucked was all the confusion on Offense. New OC, new receivers, injuries, Tebow. He played well at times and sucked other times eg game against Indy at home.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    brady is way overhyped. put a helmet on him and he folds. he succeeds because his oline keeps the rush off him.
    He succeeds because he gets the ball out quickly. No one is Peyton Manning, who almost never gets sacked if he has 3 seconds to throw the ball, but Brady is still really good at getting the ball out quickly.

    Here's an example:

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...time-to-throw/

    Brady either passed the ball or got past the line of scrimmage an average of 2.5 seconds per passing play.

    His average sack time was 3.26 seconds. (When he was sacked, it was 3.25 seconds after the ball was snapped)

    Sanchez was 2.7 Seconds and 3.34 seconds.


    In other words, Brady got the ball out faster, and when he did get sacked, his line didn't hold up as long as Sanchez.

    For the Record, Peyton Manning was 2.5/2.5 seconds. Meaning when he was sacked, it was only 2.5 seconds after the ball was snapped, but he also got the ball out in 2.5 seconds.

    Obviously this isn't a perfect stat. It's very rough, but the idea that Brady had all day to throw and Sanchez was constantly under attack is, basically, crap. Brady doesn't get sacked as much because he throws it to his receiver faster. That could be on Sanchez or the receivers. But to say to OL is the reason Brady is great is delusional.

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