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Thread: The quickest way to fix our offense: Warmack and the best available tackle!!

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    If you run it, you win. It makes your QB better and your D better.

    I know it was in the dark ages, but look at the Walt Michaels pre Freeman teams. Great OL with Fields, Powell, Ward, Randy R and Waldamore.

    Long, Gaines, Derking ran like all-pros and they won with Richard F*cking Todd at QB.
    Pre-McNeil, the Michaels Jets went 3-11, 8-8, 8-8, & 4-12 with zero playoff appearances. A combined record of 23-39. Looks like a whole lot of losing with Todd if you asked me.

  2. #22
    Jets had a great O Line and were 9-7 and 11-5 in Rex's first 2 years. Not a chance they pick a Guard at 9.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    If you run it, you win. It makes your QB better and your D better.

    I know it was in the dark ages, but look at the Walt Michaels pre Freeman teams. Great OL with Fields, Powell, Ward, Randy R and Waldamore.

    Long, Gaines, Derking ran like all-pros and they won with Richard F*cking Todd at QB.
    Exactly right. If you have a dominant OL you can possess the ball for long periods of time. Use the RB's for a potent running game. use good defense to get the ball back quick and often.

    Have a QB that does not turn the ball over. When he passes, it is low risk just taking what the defense gives you, play action, etc. Other than that, the QB just hands the ball off to the RB's and the OL and RB's do the work.

    I really don't understand why so many do not understand such a simple concept. This is exactly how the Jets would win ball games back in 2009 and 2010. Sanchez has never been a world beater. They would establish the running game and then let Sanchez take advantage of play action and high percentage passes. It worked like a charm.

    Having a good OL is also very necessary thing to have first IMO when building an offense. How good can any skill positions players be if there getting the sh*t knocked out of them on every play?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Exactly right. If you have a dominant OL you can possess the ball for long periods of time. Use the RB's for a potent running game. use good defense to get the ball back quick and often.

    Have a QB that does not turn the ball over. When he passes, it is low risk just taking what the defense gives you, play action, etc. Other than that, the QB just hands the ball off to the RB's and the OL and RB's do the work.

    I really don't understand why so many do not understand such a simple concept. This is exactly how the Jets would win ball games back in 2009 and 2010. Sanchez has never been a world beater. They would establish the running game and then let Sanchez take advantage of play action and high percentage passes. It worked like a charm.

    Having a good OL is also very necessary thing to have first IMO when building an offense. How good can any skill positions players be if there getting the sh*t knocked out of them on every play?
    Because eventually what you do gets figured out by DCs who are working around the clock to beat you. Which means either you need a QB who develops into a franchise-caliber player, or a HC who's smart enough to adjust his offense properly (and before you go blaming the last 2 OCs, who oversees them and SHOULD be meeting with them regularly to make sure said adjustments are being made?). Unfortunately the Jets have neither of those, and given the lack of skilled talent on the O, well you end up with what you have now.

    Mike Martz' O was figured out eventually, and that was an O that drove defenses insane for a long stretch of time. You think the Jets could have continued playing simpleton football in today's NFL and take the next step?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku View Post
    Because eventually what you do gets figured out by DCs who are working around the clock to beat you. Which means either you need a QB who develops into a franchise-caliber player, or a HC who's smart enough to adjust his offense properly (and before you go blaming the last 2 OCs, who oversees them and SHOULD be meeting with them regularly to make sure said adjustments are being made?). Unfortunately the Jets have neither of those, and given the lack of skilled talent on the O, well you end up with what you have now.

    Mike Martz' O was figured out eventually, and that was an O that drove defenses insane for a long stretch of time. You think the Jets could have continued playing simpleton football in today's NFL and take the next step?
    Yes, if they kept a dominant o-line (which they let slip tremendously) and top 5 defense. Even average QB play they would win a lot.

    Keep in mind they went to two AFC Championship games with poor QB play (bottom third QB play)

  6. #26
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    Didn't your hear that tackled are overrated?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Exactly right. If you have a dominant OL you can possess the ball for long periods of time. Use the RB's for a potent running game. use good defense to get the ball back quick and often.

    Have a QB that does not turn the ball over. When he passes, it is low risk just taking what the defense gives you, play action, etc. Other than that, the QB just hands the ball off to the RB's and the OL and RB's do the work.

    I really don't understand why so many do not understand such a simple concept. This is exactly how the Jets would win ball games back in 2009 and 2010. Sanchez has never been a world beater. They would establish the running game and then let Sanchez take advantage of play action and high percentage passes. It worked like a charm.

    Having a good OL is also very necessary thing to have first IMO when building an offense. How good can any skill positions players be if there getting the sh*t knocked out of them on every play?
    Thank you!!!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Exactly right. If you have a dominant OL you can possess the ball for long periods of time. Use the RB's for a potent running game. use good defense to get the ball back quick and often.

    Have a QB that does not turn the ball over. When he passes, it is low risk just taking what the defense gives you, play action, etc. Other than that, the QB just hands the ball off to the RB's and the OL and RB's do the work.

    I really don't understand why so many do not understand such a simple concept. This is exactly how the Jets would win ball games back in 2009 and 2010. Sanchez has never been a world beater. They would establish the running game and then let Sanchez take advantage of play action and high percentage passes. It worked like a charm.

    Having a good OL is also very necessary thing to have first IMO when building an offense. How good can any skill positions players be if there getting the sh*t knocked out of them on every play?
    Also, if the QB isn't getting the sh*t knocked out of him on every pass attempt, he may actually gain some confidence and turn into an OK QB.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Didn't your hear that tackled are overrated?
    Yeah, WTF is up with that post?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku View Post
    Because eventually what you do gets figured out by DCs who are working around the clock to beat you. Which means either you need a QB who develops into a franchise-caliber player, or a HC who's smart enough to adjust his offense properly (and before you go blaming the last 2 OCs, who oversees them and SHOULD be meeting with them regularly to make sure said adjustments are being made?). Unfortunately the Jets have neither of those, and given the lack of skilled talent on the O, well you end up with what you have now.

    Mike Martz' O was figured out eventually, and that was an O that drove defenses insane for a long stretch of time. You think the Jets could have continued playing simpleton football in today's NFL and take the next step?
    If your O-Line is physically beating you, no scheming by a DC will help that.
    Sanchez will never be more than an average at best QB. Thats all we need him to be. Give him an above average O-Line 1 or 2 dependable receivers, a TE who can block and be a factor in the pass game (doesnt have to be a world beater) and a decent RB who can also catch out of the backfield and our Offense will be infinitely better than last year.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    I agree that Sanchez is probably shot, but when he had a good OL in front of him, he was OK. Our QB's had 0 time to pass last year. Even Brady would have looked horrible.
    Looking back last season the o-line played well more times then not, yes it went to rat **** against the chargers etc but Sanchez was getting good protection.

    For me Sanchez was holding onto the ball too long because of the total lack of separation Gates, Gilyard and the rest of the camp fodder receiving core was getting. Giving the perception he was not gettin adequate protection from the line.

    You don't need 5 pro bowlers on the line to be a good offence, you need above average protection and home run hittin weapons.

    Simply put Sanchez was successful when he had above average protection, weapons on the outside, and a runnin game behind him.

    We need skill players.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    Yes, if they kept a dominant o-line (which they let slip tremendously) and top 5 defense. Even average QB play they would win a lot.

    Keep in mind they went to two AFC Championship games with poor QB play (bottom third QB play)
    I'd say they actually went to those two games on decent QB play (and a good bit of help from Nick Kaeding in '09), and if there's one thing I'm certainly not is a MS fan, but I give him his due for those games.

    And as dominant as that OL was, that team STILL needed a Polian gift to avoid 8-8 or 7-9 and no playoffs in 2009, and comebacks against bottom feeders in 2010 (Browns, Lions, Texans just off my head), so it's not like this team was just road-grading their way through the league with some unstoppable O. And I don't care who the OL was, any team sporting the skill position players this team has from the QB to the WRs in 2011 and 2012 wouldn't have gotten far. Then add into it the adjustments that would have been made by DCs to destroy this failure of an O led by this team's failure of a QB, slow plodding RBs, a bust of a FB, and a p1ss-poor WR / TE corps, crap coaching, and not even Fordham's Blocks of Granite would have done much for this squad recently.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku View Post
    Because eventually what you do gets figured out by DCs who are working around the clock to beat you. Which means either you need a QB who develops into a franchise-caliber player, or a HC who's smart enough to adjust his offense properly (and before you go blaming the last 2 OCs, who oversees them and SHOULD be meeting with them regularly to make sure said adjustments are being made?). Unfortunately the Jets have neither of those, and given the lack of skilled talent on the O, well you end up with what you have now.

    Mike Martz' O was figured out eventually, and that was an O that drove defenses insane for a long stretch of time. You think the Jets could have continued playing simpleton football in today's NFL and take the next step?

    If you have a great offensive line, you can have Pewee Herman ( Or Shotty) as your coach and still do well.

    The O-Line is just SO important... I don't understand how some think you can win with no o-line and good skill palyers!!!

  14. #34
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    Idk why no one gets that our line was fine, but no one can block for over 5 seconds, and if you have a RB, and TE that can't pass protect you will get blitzed on constantly. If your RB TE can't block then you need a QB that can get the ball out to the TE, or RB quickly to force them to stop. MM will figure this out, and then people will see how good our Linemen are. We need serviceable guards. We are not going to allow 5 second drop backs, and we are not going to ground and pound. We need to find a QB, but we're going to have to look under a lot of rocks, and be patient. Since there are no franchise QBs available the biggest impact position will be an edge rusher, which is a position that will be available to us. The best guards in the league are mostly later round picks anyway. It would be a huge mistake to draft a guard at 9. There are tackles that will be better available later in the draft. Can't say which ones, but I guarantee when you look back at this draft in a couple years there will be at least two tackles that turn out to be better guards than Warmack.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku View Post
    Because eventually what you do gets figured out by DCs who are working around the clock to beat you. Which means either you need a QB who develops into a franchise-caliber player, or a HC who's smart enough to adjust his offense properly (and before you go blaming the last 2 OCs, who oversees them and SHOULD be meeting with them regularly to make sure said adjustments are being made?). Unfortunately the Jets have neither of those, and given the lack of skilled talent on the O, well you end up with what you have now.

    Mike Martz' O was figured out eventually, and that was an O that drove defenses insane for a long stretch of time. You think the Jets could have continued playing simpleton football in today's NFL and take the next step?
    What QB are we going to get in the short term? There are none to get us over the hump, at least not in this draft class. Building the OL provides a good running game and good pass protection which is exactly what a team should do to remain competitive in the short term.

    What you are saying is also exactly what happened to us in 2011 and last season. As our OL eroded due to retiring/cut players, we lost our dominance at the LOS. Then, defenses started to be able to overpower us. But id we'd kept that dominant OL that would not have happened. We'd still be using the ground and pound to our advantage.

    The gameplan with Sanchez never changed at any time. Sell out to stop the run and challenge Mark sanchez to win the game through the air. In 2009 and 2010, even when committing 8 players to the box, most opponents still couldn't stop our run game. In 2011 and last season that had changed.

    That's the point. A dominant OL will keep us competitive almost immediately.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo7 View Post
    If your O-Line is physically beating you, no scheming by a DC will help that.
    Sanchez will never be more than an average at best QB. Thats all we need him to be. Give him an above average O-Line 1 or 2 dependable receivers, a TE who can block and be a factor in the pass game (doesnt have to be a world beater) and a decent RB who can also catch out of the backfield and our Offense will be infinitely better than last year.
    But he had all that his first two years and this O and QB was still never something special. Was the O better back then, yeah. Infinitely better? Not at all. He was still a bad QB back then and is still a bad QB right now. Is the OL of utmost importance? Only a fool will tell you no. But if you think the Jets could have won the past 2 years with the horrible skill position talent they've had the last 2 years, ESPECIALLY the QB, you're sadly mistaken.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    What QB are we going to get in the short term? There are none to get us over the hump, at least not in this draft class. Building the OL provides a good running game and good pass protection which is exactly what a team should do to remain competitive in the short term.

    What you are saying is also exactly what happened to us in 2011 and last season. As our OL eroded due to retiring/cut players, we lost our dominance at the LOS. Then, defenses started to be able to overpower us. But id we'd kept that dominant OL that would not have happened. We'd still be using the ground and pound to our advantage.

    The gameplan with Sanchez never changed at any time. Sell out to stop the run and challenge Mark sanchez to win the game through the air. In 2009 and 2010, even when committing 8 players to the box, most opponents still couldn't stop our run game. In 2011 and last season that had changed.

    That's the point. A dominant OL will keep us competitive almost immediately.
    What advantage would the G&P have given the Jets with Shonn Greene as its main ball-carrier? And don't reference his '09 playoffs as we now see that was his apex, if not a fluky run for him. It's not like they never opened holes for him the last 2 years, the Jets haven't had a good backfield since Greene became the main man in 2011. All the holes in the world are meaningless when your RB can't make a move on the 2nd level.

    P.S.: In 2011 & 2012, Greene had over 1000 yds, and I'm more than happy to give most of the credit for that to the OL, as we all know Greene is as effective at making his own yards as Steve Novak is at creating his own shot. You think a better back doesn't get more than just over 1,000 yards the past couple years running behind the Jets line?
    Last edited by Down, Set, Haiku; 04-09-2013 at 12:17 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku View Post
    But he had all that his first two years and this O and QB was still never something special. Was the O better back then, yeah. Infinitely better? Not at all. He was still a bad QB back then and is still a bad QB right now. Is the OL of utmost importance? Only a fool will tell you no. But if you think the Jets could have won the past 2 years with the horrible skill position talent they've had the last 2 years, ESPECIALLY the QB, you're sadly mistaken.
    I think if we had a great OL the last 2 years, we would have made the playoffs.

    Also, Sanchez may have actually developed and not regressed.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku View Post
    What advantage would the G&P have given the Jets with Shonn Greene as its main ball-carrier? And don't reference his '09 playoffs as we now see that was his apex, if not a fluky run for him. It's not like they never opened holes for him the last 2 years, the Jets haven't had a good backfield since Greene became the main man in 2011. All the holes in the world are meaningless when your RB can't make a move on the 2nd level.
    Greene is a Plodder, but with a great OL that actually opened holes, he could have easily been a 1300-1400 yard back.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    I think if we had a great OL the last 2 years, we would have made the playoffs.

    Also, Sanchez may have actually developed and not regressed.
    Sheer and utter nonsense.

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