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Thread: The quickest way to fix our offense: Warmack and the best available tackle!!

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Are you guys being serious right now? Those OLs were not stacked with 1st rounders everywhere.
    They were great OL's. Many pro-bowlers.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    They were great OL's. Many pro-bowlers.
    The way I see it is when there is a truly GREAT Guard coming into the draft like an Alan Faneca, and if your true to taking the BAP, you should take him. The Steelers never hesitated in taking Faneca and he was great for them for many years. Pretty much anchored that line. He also raised his game when the playoffs came around. He raised the game of everyone around him. He was one of the best linemen I ever saw in the playoffs, he would steamroll defenders.

    Although his game had left him somewhat when he signed with the Jets, he still managed to take his game into "the zone" in the 2009 playoffs.

    Everybody here is so stuck on this rule that they once upon a time heard that you can get any old guy off the street to play Guard. That may very well be true in most cases.

    But what everyone is misunderstanding is that when a great prospect like a Warmack comes along, the thought process should change for a good GM. The guy is a can't miss prospect who is going to instantly upgrade your OL.

    And it doesn't matter where the guy is taken, 1st round, 3rd round, 6th round, who gives a sh*t? If he's the BAP then you should take him. You CANNOT lose taking a guy like that.

    To say nothing about the fact that taking Warmack goes to common sense. It is widely acknowledged by many fans, coaches, FO personnel, that if you are building a team you should do it INSIDE OUT. In other words, anchor your OL and provide good blocking for any young skill players when they come into the league.

  3. #83
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    I'm all for upgrading the OL, but this would be overkill IMO.

    Howard is still young, cheap and did a decent job last year. Kid still has plenty of room to develop.

    I'm all for Warmack/Cooper in the 1st round, though.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    The way I see it is when there is a truly GREAT Guard coming into the draft like an Alan Faneca, and if your true to taking the BAP, you should take him. The Steelers never hesitated in taking Faneca and he was great for them for many years. Pretty much anchored that line. He also raised his game when the playoffs came around. He raised the game of everyone around him. He was one of the best linemen I ever saw in the playoffs, he would steamroll defenders.

    Although his game had left him somewhat when he signed with the Jets, he still managed to take his game into "the zone" in the 2009 playoffs.

    Everybody here is so stuck on this rule that they once upon a time heard that you can get any old guy off the street to play Guard. That may very well be true in most cases.

    But what everyone is misunderstanding is that when a great prospect like a Warmack comes along, the thought process should change for a good GM. The guy is a can't miss prospect who is going to instantly upgrade your OL.

    And it doesn't matter where the guy is taken, 1st round, 3rd round, 6th round, who gives a sh*t? If he's the BAP then you should take him. You CANNOT lose taking a guy like that.

    To say nothing about the fact that taking Warmack goes to common sense. It is widely acknowledged by many fans, coaches, FO personnel, that if you are building a team you should do it INSIDE OUT. In other words, anchor your OL and provide good blocking for any young skill players when they come into the league.
    Best prospect since Vernon Cary. How often do these can't miss guards miss anyway?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'm all for upgrading the OL, but this would be overkill IMO.

    Howard is still young, cheap and did a decent job last year. Kid still has plenty of room to develop.

    I'm all for Warmack/Cooper in the 1st round, though.
    You could also make the case that drafting Warmack/ Eifert makes the O line even better than taking a combo of G/RT.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    Are you guys being serious right now? Those OLs were not stacked with 1st rounders everywhere.
    Who cares? They got lucky with a few players and were great.

    Some of the best QBs in the league were not top ten picks (Brees/Brady/Rodgers/Romo) so by your logic you would pass on Andrew Luck with the 9th pick because other teams found great QBs in the later rounds.

    Alfred Morris was taken in the 6th round and Arian Foster wasn't even drafted, so why waste a high-mid draft pick on a RB this year.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    Exactly right. If you have a dominant OL you can possess the ball for long periods of time. Use the RB's for a potent running game. use good defense to get the ball back quick and often.

    Have a QB that does not turn the ball over. When he passes, it is low risk just taking what the defense gives you, play action, etc. Other than that, the QB just hands the ball off to the RB's and the OL and RB's do the work.

    I really don't understand why so many do not understand such a simple concept. This is exactly how the Jets would win ball games back in 2009 and 2010. Sanchez has never been a world beater. They would establish the running game and then let Sanchez take advantage of play action and high percentage passes. It worked like a charm.

    Having a good OL is also very necessary thing to have first IMO when building an offense. How good can any skill positions players be if there getting the sh*t knocked out of them on every play?

    Great ... another playing scared apologist ... no thank you .. I want an Offense than can score at will ... not one that 'just doesn't lose games'. When are people going to realize that the ground and pound - play not to lose mentality is now obsolete ????

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    You could also make the case that drafting Warmack/ Eifert makes the O line even better than taking a combo of G/RT.
    Agreed

    If we end up with the 13th pick, I'd have no objections about taking Eifert.

    Some might call it a reach, but odds are they're the same people who would want Austin or Patterson in that spot (even bigger reaches).

  9. #89
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    If you run it, you win. It makes your QB better and your D better.

    I know it was in the dark ages, but look at the Walt Michaels pre Freeman teams. Great OL with Fields, Powell, Ward, Randy R and Waldamore.

    Long, Gaines, Derking ran like all-pros and they won with Richard F*cking Todd at QB.
    I was a very big Richard Todd fan, one of the few. I know they had a great Oline back then, but I'll take Richard Todd any day of the week over Sanchez.

    Todd actually looked twice the size of Sanchez in stature, he actually looked like a pro QB sitting in the pocket, not some little, scared mouse that never belonged in the NFL in the first place.

    Lets get a pro QB, don't rush him, and we'll go from there.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Great ... another playing scared apologist ... no thank you .. I want an Offense than can score at will ... not one that 'just doesn't lose games'. When are people going to realize that the ground and pound - play not to lose mentality is now obsolete ????
    SF was 4th and Balt was 11th in rushing last year.

    The saints, lions and cowboys were 1,2 and 3 in passing.

    Listen, we all agree that this team needs an elite QB. But no one here is suggesting taking Warmack over the next Andrew Luck or A. Peterson or AJ Green. Unfortunately, this draft doesn't have elite offensive skill players worth taking in the top 10. The best players on the offensive side of the ball are T/G.

    So unless you think taking Ezekial Ansah with the 9th pick will magically make our offense more productive you should start thinking about how we can improve our OL.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'm all for upgrading the OL, but this would be overkill IMO.

    Howard is still young, cheap and did a decent job last year. Kid still has plenty of room to develop.

    I'm all for Warmack/Cooper in the 1st round, though.
    Agreed

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    You could also make the case that drafting Warmack/ Eifert makes the O line even better than taking a combo of G/RT.
    Agreed. There's more than one way to improve the OL. However, I'm thinking that if Warmack is there at #9, you have to take him. But more than anything I would think improving the OL would get us the quickest results. Like as soon as this season.

    We had a great OL in 2009 and many would say we went a lot further than we should have in the playoffs that season. But no one should wonder why if they actually pay close attention to the line play. That OL hit the zone. They were truly awesome once the playoffs began.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunnie View Post
    Great ... another playing scared apologist ... no thank you .. I want an Offense than can score at will ... not one that 'just doesn't lose games'. When are people going to realize that the ground and pound - play not to lose mentality is now obsolete ????
    You'll never score at will with a sh*t Offensive line!!

    You can have Payton, Adrian Petterson, Calvi Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Gronk, but if your OL can't block, you're not going to score.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF View Post
    I was a very big Richard Todd fan, one of the few. I know they had a great Oline back then, but I'll take Richard Todd any day of the week over Sanchez.

    Todd actually looked twice the size of Sanchez in stature, he actually looked like a pro QB sitting in the pocket, not some little, scared mouse that never belonged in the NFL in the first place.

    Lets get a pro QB, don't rush him, and we'll go from there.
    Have you looked at Dick Todd's stats?

    a 50ish completion % and more INTs than TDs in every year but 81. In some years, he had high 20's INTs.

    He was WAY worse than Suckchez!!!!!

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    SF was 4th and Balt was 11th in rushing last year.

    The saints, lions and cowboys were 1,2 and 3 in passing.

    Listen, we all agree that this team needs an elite QB. But no one here is suggesting taking Warmack over the next Andrew Luck or A. Peterson or AJ Green. Unfortunately, this draft doesn't have elite offensive skill players worth taking in the top 10. The best players on the offensive side of the ball are T/G.

    So unless you think taking Ezekial Ansah with the 9th pick will magically make our offense more productive you should start thinking about how we can improve our OL.
    This

    The only offensive "skill" players in this draft that I would take in the Top 15 are Geno Smith and Tyler Eifert.

    Patterson has no business even being a 1st round pick and I like Tavon Austin, but I liked him a lot more when he was slated as a late 1st/early 2nd round pick.

    I can't remember the last time that a 5'8 170 lb receiver went in the Top 15, much less the Top 10.

    My ideal scenario is still Warmack at #9 and Jones/Eifert at #13.

  16. #96
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    Have you looked at Dick Todd's stats?

    a 50ish completion % and more INTs than TDs in every year but 81. In some years, he had high 20's INTs.

    He was WAY worse than Suckchez!!!!!
    Different era.

    If you care about stats so much how about the one where Sanchez can complete passes at only a 60% clip, BEHIND the LOS. The guy is such a disgrace he hurts the NFL brand. I've never seen a QB at this level that inaccurate.

    Richard Todd had his share of bad games, but there were games where he could put the team on his shoulders and win a game 21 points down, Sanchez could never do that. I'm just sick of the Jet Offense since the last Jet QB with an arm who actually looked like a QB, Testeverde, left. That was a long time ago.

    Now...lets get a real QB.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF View Post
    Different era.

    If you care about stats so much how about the one where Sanchez can complete passes at only a 60% clip, BEHIND the LOS. The guy is such a disgrace he hurts the NFL brand. I've never seen a QB at this level that inaccurate.

    Richard Todd had his share of bad games, but there were games where he could put the team on his shoulders and win a game 21 points down, Sanchez could never do that. I'm just sick of the Jet Offense since the last Jet QB with an arm who actually looked like a QB, Testeverde, left. That was a long time ago.

    Now...lets get a real QB.
    Yes, but not Geno!!!

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgivs21 View Post
    Let's just draft O-line this entire draft. It makes up for missing a QB, WR, RB and a TE. Just plug an O-lineman in at each position, and we're golden!!
    19-0 here we come!!!
    haha laugh all you want but if you actually did that, youd probably see a much "improved" qb, wr, te and rb

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjetfan View Post
    Yes, but not Geno!!!
    I'm with you there.

    This next choice at QB is so critical, Smith seems like a panic move, that's why I think Idzik will pass. For some reason I have much more confidence in Idzik than Tannenbaum. I don't care that he's a numbers guy, the pedigree with his father's time with the Jets and the success other organizations he has been with had, I just have a feeling that they have a good plan as to how and when the next QB will be acquired.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by revischrist View Post
    Who cares? They got lucky with a few players and were great.

    Some of the best QBs in the league were not top ten picks (Brees/Brady/Rodgers/Romo) so by your logic you would pass on Andrew Luck with the 9th pick because other teams found great QBs in the later rounds.

    Alfred Morris was taken in the 6th round and Arian Foster wasn't even drafted, so why waste a high-mid draft pick on a RB this year.
    So I guess the Jets should just hope to get lucky with a QB like the Pats did with Tom Brady. Sounds like an awesome plan. Pick some Joe in the 6th round and hope he turns into a HOF player.

    And I'm not asking to pick a RB in the first round. Impact players. OGs are not impact players, that's why nobody picks them in the top 10. Nobody does that. Why should the Jets start?

    A good QB can solve A LOT of the Jets problems. I would rather to see them go after one of the QBs if the team likes him and hope to get lucky with a guard later in the draft. To me, that makes more sense than picking an OG and hope to get lucky with a QB. If the value just isn't there for a QB, take the best player available at a few impact positions, including WR, OLB, CB, DE and OT.

    I think it's smarter to take a shot at one of those positions in round 1 before picking a guard. It's just me. I want a guy other teams lose sleep over. People will disagree, and that's fine. There is no right answer.

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