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Thread: The Case Against Jarvis Jones

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    No. I know.

    If he didn't have health concerns, I'd probably take him at 9. Can be a Tamba Hali clone.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    If he didn't have health concerns, I'd probably take him at 9. Can be a Tamba Hali clone.
    I don't know about that... hali was 275 when drafted, jones is maybe more like james harrison

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    I don't know about that... hali was 275 when drafted, jones is maybe more like james harrison
    I was talking more in terms of relying on relentless ability, and motor to get to the QB. But you're right, Harrison is a good comparison.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcb160 View Post
    It looks like no matter who we pick it will be a controversial pick. There does not appear to be a guy that we are all/mostly on board with. You just hope that the Jets will make an informed decision (and I am sure they will). No matter which way the Jets go there will be unhappy Jets fans.
    Regardless of who the jets pick, he will be average at best.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody56 View Post
    that honestly means almost nothing.

    college production ≠ nfl production
    So college production means nothing at all eh . Wtf does have importance? The combine? Better discount tavon austin for all his yards and tds. RGIII? Better dsicount his numbers.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    So college production means nothing at all eh . Wtf does have importance? The combine? Better discount tavon austin for all his yards and tds. RGIII? Better dsicount his numbers.
    No obviously being a good college player is better than being a bad one, but if all your going to base drafting a guy on is his college production then you're going to draft a lot of busts. A job is of an NFL scout or gm is to pick which guys skillset will translate to the NFL the best not how their skillset translated in college. And in Jones case he has no athletic trait, whether it be power, speed, burst, length that says elite NFL pass rusher and the reason why guys like Jordan and Mingo will go ahead of him.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    So college production means nothing at all eh . Wtf does have importance? The combine? Better discount tavon austin for all his yards and tds. RGIII? Better dsicount his numbers.
    Terrible point.

    Tavon Austin and RGIII are athletic. Jarvis Jones is not.

    Graham Harrell threw for huge numbers in college. He sure turned into a great NFL QB, right?

    http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...harrell-1.html

    Look at the NFL sack leaders. Why don't you tell us which ones are as bad of athletes as Jarvis Jones?
    Last edited by detectivekimble; 04-10-2013 at 11:38 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    Terrible point.

    Tavon Austin and RGIII are athletic. Jarvis Jones is not.

    Graham Harrell threw for huge numbers in college. He sure turned into a great NFL QB, right?

    http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...harrell-1.html

    Look at the NFL sack leaders. Why don't you tell us which ones are as bad of athletes as Jarvis Jones?
    A couple of things:

    1) Did you even read the post above that I was referring to, like at all? Woody said "that honestly means almost nothing. college production ≠ nfl production" You just changed the parameters of the whole point by suddenly saying, oh production only matters if you are athletic.

    2) Tyrell Suggs, Lamar Woodley both productive players that did not test well and were by passed because of it. Jerry Rice , slow 40, boldin, slow 40, brandon marshall, slow 40. Vernon Gholston, very athletic and productive, total bust. Brady, not atheltic nor super productive. Your bringing in Graham harrel as an example a Qb of all positions is a pretty poor argument.

    Dion jordan, very athletic but not productive as a pass rusher....now where do we slot him?

  9. #29
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    Havin thought more about it, i think we will pass on an OLB in the 1st if Jordan or Ansah are off the board. If we can't get those two I don't think we will reach on Jones or Mingo.

    I think if we don't get who we want at OLB we will go offence with the 9th and 13th if we get it off the Bucs, maybe take Warmack and Austin and then Margus Hunt in the 2nd.

    We have to give Mornhinweg and Sanchez weapons, no way we start the season with what we have offensively at the moment.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    Havin thought more about it, i think we will pass on an OLB in the 1st if Jordan or Ansah are off the board. If we can't get those two I don't think we will reach on Jones or Mingo.

    I think if we don't get who we want at OLB we will go offence with the 9th and 13th if we get it off the Bucs, maybe take Warmack and Austin and then Margus Hunt in the 2nd.

    We have to give Mornhinweg and Sanchez weapons, no way we start the season with what we have offensively at the moment.
    i agree. i can see the jets taking milliner or star at 9 as well, based purely on BAP. and i think eifert is a real possibility as is austin. 'worst case' i can see them taking defense twice, with vacarro at 13 if the board doesn't fall their way. wouldn't help the offense though.

  11. #31
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    Rich Cimini ‏@RichCimini
    DE Ezekiel Ansah: 2.5 of his 4.5 sacks came when double teamed. Perspective: Only 1 of Jarvis Jones' 14.5 sacks came on double team

    LB Jarvis Jones had 7 sacks in blitz situations (5+ rushers), most among top defensive prospects.

    Draft-related nuggets that may be of interest to #Jets fans, per @ESPNStatsInfo: Mingo only 4.5 sacks in '12, but 28 pressures, 2nd in SEC.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    i agree. i can see the jets taking milliner or star at 9 as well, based purely on BAP. and i think eifert is a real possibility as is austin. 'worst case' i can see them taking defense twice, with vacarro at 13 if the board doesn't fall their way. wouldn't help the offense though.
    Yep I can see all the possibilities you mentioned, for me there is a lot in this Margus Hunt private work out. He is an insurance policy if the player/players they want are off the board.

    I think it will be a good thing, we can scheme a pass rush with more 4-man fronts, Coples, Wilk, Hunt etc will get pressure with one on one match ups. Then you got Barnes being used purely as a situational rusher.

    Our pash rush is not that bad to make a reach on guys like Mingo or Jones, we need an infusion of explosive offensive talent goin forward.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    He uses his hands to disengage better than any passrusher in the draft. The guy is also relentless and never gives up on a play.

    His workout may have been subpar, but I have no concerns about his game speed and the guy is just a flatout playmaker.

    At this point, I don't see a chance in hell that Jordan makes it to #9 and Mingo relies strictly on his athleticism. Get a hand in his chest and he's finished. No real functional strength at all. To me, the guy has Maybin/Ayers written all over him.
    Jarvis Jones has mad skills

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Rich Cimini ‏@RichCimini
    DE Ezekiel Ansah: 2.5 of his 4.5 sacks came when double teamed. Perspective: Only 1 of Jarvis Jones' 14.5 sacks came on double team

    LB Jarvis Jones had 7 sacks in blitz situations (5+ rushers), most among top defensive prospects.

    Draft-related nuggets that may be of interest to #Jets fans, per @ESPNStatsInfo: Mingo only 4.5 sacks in '12, but 28 pressures, 2nd in SEC.
    Yeah ill take ansah all day over jones. Interesting tidbit about mingo too...

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    Yeah ill take ansah all day over jones. Interesting tidbit about mingo too...
    +1

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    A couple of things:

    1) Did you even read the post above that I was referring to, like at all? Woody said "that honestly means almost nothing. college production ≠ nfl production" You just changed the parameters of the whole point by suddenly saying, oh production only matters if you are athletic.

    2) Tyrell Suggs, Lamar Woodley both productive players that did not test well and were by passed because of it. Jerry Rice , slow 40, boldin, slow 40, brandon marshall, slow 40. Vernon Gholston, very athletic and productive, total bust. Brady, not atheltic nor super productive. Your bringing in Graham harrel as an example a Qb of all positions is a pretty poor argument.

    Dion jordan, very athletic but not productive as a pass rusher....now where do we slot him?
    You're so wrong it isn't even funny. Lamarr Woodley showed OUTSTANDING explosion at close to 270lbs. A 4.74 40 at close to 270lbs wasn't bad, either. The dude is a good athlete.

    Terrell Suggs was 20lbs or 30lbs heavier than Jarvis Jones and still ran faster.

    So again, I'll ask, which top pass rusher is as bad of an athlete as Jarvis Jones? Here, I'll give you the answer: None.
    Last edited by detectivekimble; 04-11-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  17. #37
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    Jones' game is all about timing. I don't pay attention to the combine bs except for stats that actually matter like wingspan and Jordan has that edge over Jones. I think Jones has great instincts and timing but he will need a great D-line in front of him to protect him. Would rather have Jordan but no way he makes it to 9 but then again I didn't think we had a shot at Coples last season and he slipped to us thank God.

  18. #38
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    I'm officially on board with drafting Jarvis Jones. I don't care so much about his pro day. His reaction time and ability to disengage from blockers is what I'm looking at. His numbers in the SEC back up the eye test. This guy will end up being a versatile/violent beast. In a Jet uniform hopefully.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrex View Post
    I'm officially on board with drafting Jarvis Jones. I don't care so much about his pro day. His reaction time and ability to disengage from blockers is what I'm looking at. His numbers in the SEC back up the eye test. This guy will end up being a versatile/violent beast. In a Jet uniform hopefully.
    OLBs in our system play predominantly in 3 point stances...look at Pace and Suggs or Rex uses someone like adalius thomas all over the field (thomas played in coverage a lot) which is what he could do with someone like dion jordan.

    Jones will probably be an exceptional LB in a system like pittsburgh, but im just not sure where he fits for us. Can rex find a way to get the most out of him, absolutely - maybe a workmanlike guy like mcintyre can set the edge and do the dirty work and we can keep jones on the weak side to chase plays down and attack. I dont know, but I do know even though jones has 2 years of excellent production, that defense had a ton of talent, and if he rarely faced double teams, thats something that should be factored in.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    OLBs in our system play predominantly in 3 point stances...look at Pace and Suggs or Rex uses someone like adalius thomas all over the field (thomas played in coverage a lot) which is what he could do with someone like dion jordan.

    Jones will probably be an exceptional LB in a system like pittsburgh, but im just not sure where he fits for us. Can rex find a way to get the most out of him, absolutely - maybe a workmanlike guy like mcintyre can set the edge and do the dirty work and we can keep jones on the weak side to chase plays down and attack. I dont know, but I do know even though jones has 2 years of excellent production, that defense had a ton of talent, and if he rarely faced double teams, thats something that should be factored in.
    Line him up next to Wilkerson or Coples and he probably won't be facing many double teams here either.

    They can't double Wilk, Coples and Jones at the same time.

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