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Thread: The Case Against Jarvis Jones

  1. #1

    The Case Against Jarvis Jones

    A lot of people have fallen in love with Jarvis Jones. Claiming him to be the only legit pass rusher in this draft. Well, my question is why?

    The average draft analyst looks at the stat sheet and says wow, available at 9!? sign me up! However, what really sells you on him as a prospect?

    Was a sack artist in Georgia correct, but his main job was to rush the passer, and he pinned his ears back every single play, and rushed the passer every play. Also, he had an elite defense with him, and even greater an elite Defensive Line. 2 of his linemen will be picked within the first 2 days. His fellow Inside Backer will be a first round pick, his fellow OLB will be picked before the 4th round. 2 Safety's that will be in the NFL.

    What stands out about Jarvis but the stat sheet? Does Jarvis overly impress you when you watch them? Not really to be honest.

    Average burst, mediocre athleticism, lacks elite strength and build that a Terrell Suggs has. Also, he has health concerns, and going by the pattern he's projected to be out of the league in 5 years.

    Give me Jordan and even Mingo over him any day of the week.

  2. #2
    You raise good points about Jarvis.

    I was one of those that was hot for the Jets drafting him. Then all the crap starting coming out with this kid. First the health concerns and then the poor workout performance. I don't need for a guy to be a workout warrior, especially if his tape is on point. However, his time was so bad. Plus the fact his coaches reportedly warned scouts that he would not time well. He proved them right. The question is, why? Why did he perform poorly.

    Someone is going to have to do their homework on him. Talk to the coaches and find out why this kid's numbers are so bad. Is he lazy in the gym or is he just a poor tester? Apparently, they know what is going on.

    One other concern. Someone raised the issue (don't remember who) that SEC sack leaders tend to underperform in the NFL. That really surprised me. I swear by that conference.

    Too risky a pick for me.

  3. #3
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    He uses his hands to disengage better than any passrusher in the draft. The guy is also relentless and never gives up on a play.

    His workout may have been subpar, but I have no concerns about his game speed and the guy is just a flatout playmaker.

    At this point, I don't see a chance in hell that Jordan makes it to #9 and Mingo relies strictly on his athleticism. Get a hand in his chest and he's finished. No real functional strength at all. To me, the guy has Maybin/Ayers written all over him.

  4. #4
    My case for Jarvis Jones?

    2011 - 70 tackles, 19.5 tackles for loss, 13.5 sacks
    2012 - 85 tackles, 24.5 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks.

    Two great years in the toughest conference in college ball, not only that he improved after an already great year.

    We constantly see players who do nothing and then have a huge last year before their draft. We constantly see guys who have a great years two years before their draft and then falter in their draft year.

    He played to a very high level the last two years and you simply do not do that by accident, especially when other teams are aware of a player after he has a big year.

    I'm still fully on the Jones bandwagon and for me his two years of great production hold up despite so so workouts. Mingo has potential but he is slight. Ansah is a massive boom or bust guy with a suspect resume. Dion Jordan supporters best answer to to him not putting up numbers is to simply say he has the potential and always dropped into coverage.

    All of these guys have ?'s so I'll stick with two years of dominant proven production.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    A lot of people have fallen in love with Jarvis Jones. Claiming him to be the only legit pass rusher in this draft. Well, my question is why?

    The average draft analyst looks at the stat sheet and says wow, available at 9!? sign me up! However, what really sells you on him as a prospect?

    Was a sack artist in Georgia correct, but his main job was to rush the passer, and he pinned his ears back every single play, and rushed the passer every play. Also, he had an elite defense with him, and even greater an elite Defensive Line. 2 of his linemen will be picked within the first 2 days. His fellow Inside Backer will be a first round pick, his fellow OLB will be picked before the 4th round. 2 Safety's that will be in the NFL.

    What stands out about Jarvis but the stat sheet? Does Jarvis overly impress you when you watch them? Not really to be honest.

    Average burst, mediocre athleticism, lacks elite strength and build that a Terrell Suggs has. Also, he has health concerns, and going by the pattern he's projected to be out of the league in 5 years.

    Give me Jordan and even Mingo over him any day of the week.
    I agree about taking Jordan over Jones, but not over Mingo. You use the reasoning that Jones played on an elite defense and that made him look better, but that should also apply to Mingo. To me, Jones plays much better at the point of attack than Mingo does.

  6. #6
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    Don't want Jones at all. Maybe in the 3rd.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    He uses his hands to disengage better than any passrusher in the draft. The guy is also relentless and never gives up on a play.

    His workout may have been subpar, but I have no concerns about his game speed and the guy is just a flatout playmaker.

    At this point, I don't see a chance in hell that Jordan makes it to #9 and Mingo relies strictly on his athleticism. Get a hand in his chest and he's finished. No real functional strength at all. To me, the guy has Maybin/Ayers written all over him.
    +1

    Mingo just doesn't impress at all...every time I watch him I end up watching the other guys on that defense(Reid and Montgomery)

    Just gon't know about JJ...like you I think it's just our luck that Jordan would be gone and Damontre Moore(who I still think will be a very successful pro) will fall between our 1st and 2nd round picks so that leaves Jones.He scares me but his production is undeniable.Again though how much was the talent around him a factor?

  8. #8
    It looks like no matter who we pick it will be a controversial pick. There does not appear to be a guy that we are all/mostly on board with. You just hope that the Jets will make an informed decision (and I am sure they will). No matter which way the Jets go there will be unhappy Jets fans.

  9. #9
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    I know I have said this time and time again but I like Jones but the spinal stenosis just scares the crap out of me.

  10. #10
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    How come you bring up all of the elite talent surrounding Jones while completely ignoring the fact that LSU's defense is probably better than Georgia's and has just as many if not more high level prospects.

    The whole premise of your argument is shot.

    Dude puts up numbers and you can't take that away from him, as if it barely means anything.

    His spinal condition is certainly something to consider, but as a player, he's a top 5 talent in this class IMO.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    He uses his hands to disengage better than any passrusher in the draft. The guy is also relentless and never gives up on a play.

    His workout may have been subpar, but I have no concerns about his game speed and the guy is just a flatout playmaker.

    At this point, I don't see a chance in hell that Jordan makes it to #9 and Mingo relies strictly on his athleticism. Get a hand in his chest and he's finished. No real functional strength at all. To me, the guy has Maybin/Ayers written all over him.
    That is incorrect about Mingo.

    He was always lined up in the tackle box against lineman with 80 pounds on him where he didn't get to use his speed or athleticism, and yet he still held his own. That should tell you that he's exceptionally strong. And he may not use his hands as well as Jarvis, but his hands are not shabby at all. Give him an extra couple steps where he can use his speed and athleticism, and let the highlight reel commence.

    That being said, I'd be thrilled with Jones.

    It's Jordan that I would be upset with.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    How come you bring up all of the elite talent surrounding Jones while completely ignoring the fact that LSU's defense is probably better than Georgia's and has just as many if not more high level prospects.

    The whole premise of your argument is shot.

    Dude puts up numbers and you can't take that away from him, as if it barely means anything.

    His spinal condition is certainly something to consider, but as a player, he's a top 5 talent in this class IMO.

    Easy, because Jones had a great front line, and playing as an OLB with a great DL makes the job a lot easier for a pass rusher. (See Aldon Smith)

    Georgia has 3 guys on their line getting drafted.


    Mingo played as a down lineman for most of the year and struggled, and they played him way too close to the line. They had no lineman to occupy blocks as Jones did.

    Mingo's greatest attribute is his burst, motor, length, and spin move. His weaknesses are disengaging lineman and lack of strength. Put Mingo on weight gainers and have him lift properly, and the weight will come on. Trust me, you can fix his weight.

    Those attributes are much more suit for a 3-4 Leo position. Make him put his horns back and let him rush the passer. His agility, burst, and first step as a stand up LB will be a terror to OL.

    Look, I'll be honest, I prefer Dion, and don't love Mingo, but Mingo is 2nd on my board. I see the potential in him. I see Jarvis being a Tamba Hali guy at best.

    You can change strength. You can't change athleticism.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    He uses his hands to disengage better than any passrusher in the draft. The guy is also relentless and never gives up on a play.

    His workout may have been subpar, but I have no concerns about his game speed and the guy is just a flatout playmaker.

    At this point, I don't see a chance in hell that Jordan makes it to #9 and Mingo relies strictly on his athleticism. Get a hand in his chest and he's finished. No real functional strength at all. To me, the guy has Maybin/Ayers written all over him.
    Nope. Mingo actually holds up pretty well. Moore, on the other hand, gets washed out of plays very easily.

    Mingo or Jordan are the guys you draft if you want an OLB.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    My case for Jarvis Jones?

    2011 - 70 tackles, 19.5 tackles for loss, 13.5 sacks
    2012 - 85 tackles, 24.5 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks.

    Two great years in the toughest conference in college ball, not only that he improved after an already great year.
    End thread/

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    End thread/


    In my beginning post of the thread I explained it. Stats don't exactly always translate to the pros.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ro 25 View Post
    In my beginning post of the thread I explained it. Stats don't exactly always translate to the pros.
    yeah let's take a look at those SEC sack leaders:

    2012 Jarvis Jones* 14 Georgia
    2011 Jarvis Jones* 14 Georgia
    2010 Nick Fairley* 12 Auburn
    2009 Antonio Coleman* 10 Auburn
    2008 Carlos Dunlap* 10 Florida
    2007 Marcus Howard* 10 Georgia
    2006 Jamaal Anderson* 14 Arkansas
    2005 Willie Evans 15 Mississippi State

    not a very impressive group

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by cant wait View Post
    yeah let's take a look at those SEC sack leaders:

    2012 Jarvis Jones* 14 Georgia
    2011 Jarvis Jones* 14 Georgia
    2010 Nick Fairley* 12 Auburn
    2009 Antonio Coleman* 10 Auburn
    2008 Carlos Dunlap* 10 Florida
    2007 Marcus Howard* 10 Georgia
    2006 Jamaal Anderson* 14 Arkansas
    2005 Willie Evans 15 Mississippi State

    not a very impressive group

    Thank you!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    End thread/
    that honestly means almost nothing.

    college production ≠ nfl production

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody56 View Post
    that honestly means almost nothing.

    college production ≠ nfl production

    Thank you! Clay Matthews had 4.5 sacks his Senior Season at USC.

    [/thread]

  20. #20
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    No. I know.

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