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Thread: Drafting Star vs an OLB at #9 (or #13)

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    Drafting Star vs an OLB at #9 (or #13)

    I know a lot of people say we've spent too many picks on D-Line the past few years and need an OLB. I'm starting to think that, since most of the OLBs available around 9 & 13 have question marks, maybe drafting Star makes sense (if available).
    If we can generate a pass rush from our front 3 (Wilk, Coples & Star), isn't that the perfect scenario? The less players you need to generate pressure, the better your back 8 will be in coverage. Plus, if they go to a 4 man look (Wilk, Coples, Star & Ellis), the need for that pass rushing OLB drops significantly (IMO).
    What are your thoughts.

    BTW, if we trade Revis and get #13 (+ another 3rd-4th rounder this year), I'm all for grabbing Cooper (G) or maybe Vaccaro to sure up our secondary. We can go CB later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    I know a lot of people say we've spent too many picks on D-Line the past few years and need an OLB. I'm starting to think that, since most of the OLBs available around 9 & 13 have question marks, maybe drafting Star makes sense (if available).
    If we can generate a pass rush from our front 3 (Wilk, Coples & Star), isn't that the perfect scenario? The less players you need to generate pressure, the better your back 8 will be in coverage. Plus, if they go to a 4 man look (Wilk, Coples, Star & Ellis), the need for that pass rushing OLB drops significantly (IMO).
    What are your thoughts.

    BTW, if we trade Revis and get #13 (+ another 3rd-4th rounder this year), I'm all for grabbing Cooper (G) or maybe Vaccaro to sure up our secondary. We can go CB later.

    Dammit Man our Offense was Ranked 30th last season...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodjet View Post
    Dammit Man our Offense was Ranked 30th last season...
    No question, but I don't know if any offensive player not a G or OT is worth the #9 pick (assuming we don't trade down). For the record, I have no problem taking one of the guards (prefer Cooper) at #9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    I know a lot of people say we've spent too many picks on D-Line the past few years and need an OLB. I'm starting to think that, since most of the OLBs available around 9 & 13 have question marks, maybe drafting Star makes sense (if available).
    If we can generate a pass rush from our front 3 (Wilk, Coples & Star), isn't that the perfect scenario? The less players you need to generate pressure, the better your back 8 will be in coverage. Plus, if they go to a 4 man look (Wilk, Coples, Star & Ellis), the need for that pass rushing OLB drops significantly (IMO).
    What are your thoughts.

    BTW, if we trade Revis and get #13 (+ another 3rd-4th rounder this year), I'm all for grabbing Cooper (G) or maybe Vaccaro to sure up our secondary. We can go CB later.
    No the problem with this is you're generating a pass rush from the DL playing a 43 scheme . To do this, youre OLber have to be big enough and strong enough to stop the run mening that you lose alot in coverage . Ideally, in this scheme you want your DL to stop the run and protect your Linebackers giving them the chance to get after the QB and cover the soft zone.To perfect this scheme both your safeties should be interchangeable and youe Linebackers should be able to run and hit.

    Last yr, we had interchangeable safeties terrible LBers and a solid DL.This yr with Landry and Bush we once again have interchangeable safeties the same DL and a chance to improve our LBing core. The big key will be the NT position and the LBing core.

    It's why the idea of taking Star with the 9th pick is so appealing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodjet View Post
    Dammit Man our Offense was Ranked 30th last season...
    We can fix this problem with 2 moves.

    1- Bench Mark Sanchez permanantly.

    2 - It's already done with the firing of Sparano and the hiring of Morningwig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    No the problem with this is you're generating a pass rush from the DL playing a 43 scheme . To do this, youre OLber have to be big enough and strong enough to stop the run mening that you lose alot in coverage . Ideally, in this scheme you want your DL to stop the run and protect your Linebackers giving them the chance to get after the QB and cover the soft zone.To perfect this scheme both your safeties should be interchangeable and youe Linebackers should be able to run and hit.

    Last yr, we had interchangeable safeties terrible LBers and a solid DL.This yr with Landry and Bush we once again have interchangeable safeties the same DL and a chance to improve our LBing core. The big key will be the NT position and the LBing core.

    It's why the idea of taking Star with the 9th pick is so appealing.
    Tin: did you mean 3-4? If not, I'm confused.
    If you mean 3-4, it depends on what type of 3-4. The "old" (Parcells) type of 3-4 called for the d-line to tie up blockers and let the LBs make the plays. Rex plays more of a 1 gap (I think) which lets the dline shoot gaps to make plays (if their skill set allows). I think we have 2 of those players now. Star would be the 3rd. I think Allen will have more of a role (with Landry) as the in-the-box safety.
    My point being: if we're generating pressure with the front 3 in a 3-4 and are not relying on that OLB as the 4th DPR, it gives us a lot more flexibility.
    Last edited by CTJetsFanII; 04-15-2013 at 02:22 PM.

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    I have been saying to whoever will listen....take star at #9 if available.

    coples wilkerson star for the next decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    Tin: did you mean 3-4? If not, I'm confused.
    If you mean 3-4, it depends on what type of 3-4. The "old" (Parcells) type of 3-4 called for the d-line to tie up blockers and let the LBs make the plays. Rex plays more of a 1 gap (I think) which lets the dline shoot gaps to make plays (if their skill set allows). I think we have 2 of those players now. Star would be the 3rd. I think Allen will have more of a role (with Landry) as the in-the-box safety.
    My point being: if we're generating pressure with the front 3 in a 3-4 and are not relying on that OLB as the 4th DPR, it gives us a lot more flexibility.
    Yea, sorry i was talking 34.

    It doesn't matter what scheme you play, you have to stop the run 1st. If your DL are 1 gap someone has to protect the other gap. Either way, the LBers have to be stout at the POA . The original version of Bryan Thomas was Carl Banks.

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    honestly, at this point - i don't know what's really separating the 2nd round prospects from the guys up top. Mingo? Is really all that much better than Collins, Washington, Carradine, Moore.. etc? I guess if you believed in Jones, there's a discussion to be had, but otherwise, the value has to be Star/Cooper/Warmack/

    ftr i'm going to sacrifice a goat in the name of Floyd on wed night before round 1

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    Ideally, i would love to draft Ansah and Jordan. 1 run and cover OLBer and 1 stay and hit OLBer.

    I really want Cooper with that 13th pick. I think the Jets want him also and that is why that pick is so important to them in any Revis trade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    I know a lot of people say we've spent too many picks on D-Line the past few years and need an OLB. I'm starting to think that, since most of the OLBs available around 9 & 13 have question marks, maybe drafting Star makes sense (if available).
    If we can generate a pass rush from our front 3 (Wilk, Coples & Star), isn't that the perfect scenario? The less players you need to generate pressure, the better your back 8 will be in coverage. Plus, if they go to a 4 man look (Wilk, Coples, Star & Ellis), the need for that pass rushing OLB drops significantly (IMO).
    What are your thoughts.

    BTW, if we trade Revis and get #13 (+ another 3rd-4th rounder this year), I'm all for grabbing Cooper (G) or maybe Vaccaro to sure up our secondary. We can go CB later.
    Yeh, thats not something you have to worry about guy. Unlike the media and the above average fandom nation, NFL scouts stick to their guns and they do not have the memory of a goldfish like most NFL "media analysts." Star is fine health wise and is an outright stud of a DT and probably isnt making it out of the top 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADemas View Post
    Yeh, thats not something you have to worry about guy. Unlike the media and the above average fandom nation, NFL scouts stick to their guns and they do not have the memory of a goldfish like most NFL "media analysts." Star is fine health wise and is an outright stud of a DT and probably isnt making it out of the top 5.
    Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think we already have enough talent/prospects locked in on the DL. Probably there would be more value in shoring up the shaky OLB corp who could take advantage of the double teams Wilks and Coples would attract anyway even without adding Star at 9. Just my preference to pick up some passrushing OLB where we have a glaring need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    Ideally, i would love to draft Ansah and Jordan. 1 run and cover OLBer and 1 stay and hit OLBer.

    I really want Cooper with that 13th pick. I think the Jets want him also and that is why that pick is so important to them in any Revis trade.
    Agree...although after Jordan I would go with Star L. Before ansah.

    Also love cooper with the 13

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    Quote Originally Posted by FijiJet View Post
    Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think we already have enough talent/prospects locked in on the DL. Probably there would be more value in shoring up the shaky OLB corp who could take advantage of the double teams Wilks and Coples would attract anyway even without adding Star at 9. Just my preference to pick up some passrushing OLB where we have a glaring need.
    I have been mocking the hell out of the top half of this draft and if there is indeed a run on these 3 OT's and lane j makes it in top 8...pray for the eagles or bills to take Geno .....star or Jordan will be there at 9!!
    I want one of those 2 men in green!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBAKE View Post
    Agree...although after Jordan I would go with Star L. Before ansah.

    Also love cooper with the 13
    At 9 and 13, if the Jets come away with 2 players from this group i am smiling.

    Dion Jordan
    Ezekiel Ansah
    Star Lotulelei
    Jonathon Cooper

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    At 9 and 13, if the Jets come away with 2 players from this group i am smiling.

    Dion Jordan
    Ezekiel Ansah
    Star Lotulelei
    Jonathon Cooper
    I agree with all except Ansah. Too risky for me.

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    1 broken down old OLber made the difference between the Jets defense being ranked in the 20s and ending up in the top 10. Ezekiel Ansah is that player with better instincts.

    Everyone is taking a wait and see attitude towards this player. What these same folks fail to realize is that this player is doing as well as he has with as little knowledge of the game as he has.

    You can't teach what this kid does, it's instinctive. It's what Bryan Thomas didn't have.This kid with little to no experience playing American Football is being mentioned with guys who have played the game all their lives.


    Imagine when he figures out what he's actually doing with some pro coaching and a pro conditioning program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    1 broken down old OLber made the difference between the Jets defense being ranked in the 20s and ending up in the top 10. Ezekiel Ansah is that player with better instincts.

    Everyone is taking a wait and see attitude towards this player. What these same folks fail to realize is that this player is doing as well as he has with as little knowledge of the game as he has.

    You can't teach what this kid does, it's instinctive. It's what Bryan Thomas didn't have.This kid with little to no experience playing American Football is being mentioned with guys who have played the game all their lives.


    Imagine when he figures out what he's actually doing with some pro coaching and a pro conditioning program.
    That's my fear. Once he's asked to have an assignment, be disciplined and think, who knows how fast he'll play.
    We can't miss at #9 regardless of how high his ceiling is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinstar View Post
    We can fix this problem with 2 moves.

    1- Bench Mark Sanchez permanantly.

    2 - It's already done with the firing of Sparano and the hiring of Morningwig.
    #3 Start David Garrard and have him throw left-handed and the Jets will be better than 30th on Offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJetsFanII View Post
    That's my fear. Once he's asked to have an assignment, be disciplined and think, who knows how fast he'll play.
    We can't miss at #9 regardless of how high his ceiling is.
    AT 9 there's probably only 3 guys who won't come with a Question mark.

    Star
    Chance
    Jonathon

    I can see taking Star.
    I can even see taking Jonathon because of his versatility at OG and Center
    I can't see taking Chance.

    We can probably get Jonathon Cooper at 13. I want a game changer at 9. No QB or RB exist, so it has to be a defender.

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