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Thread: Background Checks Shot Down

  1. #1
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    Background Checks Shot Down

    How much money and time has been wasted on this? I was in favor of this but I hate when people use the phrase "common sense" when talking about this topic.

    Hopefully we can now focus on strengthening the existing system.


    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/17/po...te/index.html#
    Washington (CNN) -- In a major defeat for supporters of tougher gun laws, the U.S. Senate on Wednesday defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on firearms sales.

    The bipartisan plan brokered by Sens. Joe Manchin, D-West Virginia, and Pat Toomey, R-Pennsylvania, was backed by President Barack Obama in his push for a package of gun laws in the aftermath of the Newtown school massacre.

    However, fierce opposition by the powerful National Rifle Association led a backlash by conservative Republicans and a few Democrats from pro-gun states that doomed the amendment to the broader package of legislation.

    Due to procedural steps by Republican opponents, the amendment required 60 votes to pass in the 100-member chamber, meaning Democrats and their Independent allies who hold 55 seats needed support from some GOP senators to push them through.

    The final vote was 54 in favor to 46 opposed with two Republicans joining most Democrats in supporting the compromise.

    The overall gun legislation includes tougher laws on gun trafficking and straw purchases, and steps to devise ways to improve safety in schools.

    It would be the most significant gun legislation before Congress in almost two decades, and comes four months after the December shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, that killed 20 first-graders and six educators.

    Obama pushed hard for Congress to include expanded background checks in any gun package and the White House campaigned in support of the Manchin-Toomey compromise.

    However, the NRA promised political retribution against supporters of tougher gun laws.

    "You may not win today ... but I will say that you did the right thing," veteran GOP Sen. John McCain of Arizona said in praising Manchin and Toomey tor political courage in proposing their compromise. McCain was one of three Republicans who supported the compromise.

    Manchin earlier sounded resigned to defeat, telling his colleagues that regardless of how the chamber votes, the issue of background checks "is not going to go away."

    The NRA has said an expanded background check system would be the first step toward a national gun registry and therefore a violation of the constitutional right to bear arms.

    Manchin and other supporters rejected that claim, noting the compromise amendment prohibited a national gun registry and criminalizes misusing background check data for that purpose.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid warned Republicans that the strong majority of Americans who support expanded background checks won't forget votes against the Manchin-Toomey compromise.

    "The American people ... have a long, long memory," he said.

    Meanwhile, conservative Republicans proposed an alternative package of gun laws that reflected the NRA position.

    The GOP plan, introduced Wednesday after weeks of hearings and debate on Democratic proposals, lacked any expansion of background checks but called for more funding to better enforce the existing system.

    A sponsor of the Republican alternative, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, said it would target the gun violence problem in a way that the Democratic proposal before the Senate would not.

    In response, Judiciary Committee Chairman Sen. Pat Leahy, D-Vermont, called the GOP's last-minute proposal a "weak and counterproductive alternative."

    Other proposed amendments to the gun package sent to the Senate by Leahy's committee include a ban on semi-automatic firearms modeled after military assault weapons sponsored by Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, and a plan by Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas to make state concealed weapons permits acceptable throughout the country.

    The Senate debate was expected to last several days and any legislation passed would then go to the Republican-led House. So far, House Speaker John Boehner has stopped short of promising a vote on whatever the Senate sends over.

    Obama and others have been highlighting daily gun violence in America in their appeal to lawmakers for stricter limits.

    Many in Washington have coalesced around expanding background checks conducted on gun sales. However, settling on the exact mechanism of such a step has been difficult in a sharply divided political climate, with the NRA leading a strong lobbying effort against proposed changes.

    Few amendments may pass

    The Manchin-Toomey proposal would have extend background checks to private transactions at gun shows and all Internet sales.

    Reid, D-Nevada, said last month that Feinstein's revised ban on some semiautomatic weapons, which was approved by the Judiciary Committee with no Republican support, had no chance of passing.

    He agreed to allow Feinstein to propose it as an amendment instead of including it in the legislative package from the judiciary panel.

    Polls support background checks

    Polls show that a strong majority of Americans support some type of initiative to stem gun violence. In a CNN/ORC International poll released last week, 86% of Americans say they support expanded background checks.

    However, a majority of Americans also fear that increased background checks would lead to a federal registry of gun owners that could allow the government to take away legally owned weapons.

    White House spokesman Jay Carney called any claim that the Manchin-Toomey plan would lead to a federal gun registry and confiscation of firearms "absurd and false and wrong."

    "The legislation itself prohibits that," he said, adding "what should be clear to those senators who are considering this, because it's clear to the American people, is that this is common sense."

    CNN's Ed Payne contributed to this report.

  2. #2
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    Our country has bigger problems than Gun control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    Our country has bigger problems than Gun control.
    This is what I have been thinking about the past couple of days.

    Lets talk about national security and the economy. I have grown tired of the debates about guns and gays. Sorry to sound harsh but some things need to take precedent.

  5. #5
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    In a major defeat for supporters of tougher gun laws, the U.S. Senate on Wednesday defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on firearms sales.
    A compromise means that both sides end up giving up something and gaining something. In what possible way was this new POS bill a "compromise"? It was an acquiescence.

    Good for the Rs. At least they're good for something.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by freestater View Post
    A compromise means that both sides end up giving up something and gaining something. In what possible way was this new POS bill a "compromise"? It was an acquiescence.

    Good for the Rs. At least they're good for something.
    Just speaks to the complete lack of leadership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Just speaks to the complete lack of leadership.
    in what way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    This is what I have been thinking about the past couple of days.

    Lets talk about national security and the economy. I have grown tired of the debates about guns and gays. Sorry to sound harsh but some things need to take precedent.
    I was thinking smaller than that things are just way out hand, and I don't believe they can be turned around. No discipline, no respect, priorities are all wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freestater View Post
    in what way?
    Mainly Obama. After all, he is the President. I know you are going to disagree but sooner or later people will stop making excuses for him. He alienates the opposition. Tries to fight everything in the court of public opinion. Clinton and Reagan both faced fierce opposition and managed to make significant compromise.

    Now he is going to give a speech in the Rose Garden and parade the Newtown families. There are just certain ways to go about things.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    I was thinking smaller than that things are just way out hand, and I don't believe they can be turned around. No discipline, no respect, priorities are all wrong.
    I completely agree. 99% of our problems start at home.

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    What an absolute disgrace. 90 percent of Americans favor background checks yet congress cannot pass this bill. Who does congress represent if not the will of the people? Well that's easy; they represent the NRA.

    On a side note, I can't wait for the next debate to break out about curtailing the influence of unions on the democratic process. The height of hypocrisy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    The height of hypocrisy.
    The height of hypocrisy was that rant that Obama just went on in the Rose Garden. Basically everything he complained about he is guilty of on separate issues.

    Someone needs to tell him to start doing his job and to basically stop calling people that disagree with him idiots. That is what he does every time he says "common sense" and "sensible".

    And I wanted the background check expansion. However, I am bitterly disappointed in how they went about it.

    And it is time to let the Newtown families do their own thing. I encourage them to spread their message and I would even support the gov't financing them. I think what they are doing is courageous. But I don't want to see them standing next to the President while he blames everyone but himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    What an absolute disgrace. 90 percent of Americans favor background checks yet congress cannot pass this bill. Who does congress represent if not the will of the people? Well that's easy; they represent the NRA.

    On a side note, I can't wait for the next debate to break out about curtailing the influence of unions on the democratic process. The height of hypocrisy.
    But are 90% registered voters that vote?

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    90 percent of Americans favor background checks yet congress cannot pass this bill.
    The proposal was a joke. It was so full of holes it was practically worthless. I'd rather have no legislation than bad legislation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache 51 View Post
    But are 90% registered voters that vote?
    Exactly. We will see what happens in the mid-term elections. Elections > polls.

    I refuse to blame the NRA. Nobody is putting a gun to the head of these politicians.

    This issue has gone completely off course. I was sad when I heard one of the parents from Newtown say that they won't be defeated. Nobody is trying to defeat these poor people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Exactly. We will see what happens in the mid-term elections. Elections > polls.

    I refuse to blame the NRA. Nobody is putting a gun to the head of these politicians.

    This issue has gone completely off course. I was sad when I heard one of the parents from Newtown say that they won't be defeated. Nobody is trying to defeat these poor people.
    The NRA is 100%, without question or doubt, looking to defeat their interests. It would be complete foolishness to believe anything else. The NRA spent millions on purchasing politicians and advertising campaigns in an effort to do what? To NOT defeat the parents' interests and what they represent?

    There is blame to go around for why this bill failed. You can blame the president for tactical errors. You can blame the politicians who have sold their souls to the NRA for financial and political gain. And you can most certainly blame the NRA for, like other powerful special interest groups, buying politicians and making a mockery of what remains of our democracy.

    There is blame to go around, but you would be naive to absolve the NRA, one of the most powerful special interest groups in the history of this country, from contributing to the death of this bill.
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 04-17-2013 at 07:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    The proposal was a joke. It was so full of holes it was practically worthless. I'd rather have no legislation than bad legislation.
    You're making a bad assumption if you think liberal voters bother to read or understand much about these deals other than what the title promises.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    The proposal was a joke. It was so full of holes it was practically worthless. I'd rather have no legislation than bad legislation.
    maybe so but a half of loaf is better than none. That was a belief espoused by Ronald Reagan; “if they offer you half a loaf, what do you do?” And his answer was, “you take half a loaf and then you come back for more.”

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by intelligentjetsfan View Post
    What an absolute disgrace. 90 percent of Americans favor background checks yet congress cannot pass this bill. Who does congress represent if not the will of the people? Well that's easy; they represent the NRA.

    On a side note, I can't wait for the next debate to break out about curtailing the influence of unions on the democratic process. The height of hypocrisy.
    Not sure this is accurate. I think most responsible tax paying Americans
    Do not support this bill.

    the polls you speak of, I am not convinced are accurate.

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    Affordable Care Act

    LOL

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