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Thread: Mel Kiper

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe810 View Post
    i just dont think so how many gaurds are in the hof tackles and centers gaurds are just giards lets think in jets history back 10 years name me a gaurd you think was awesome yeah i cant maybe you can but tackles and centers joe fields marvin powel. so guards are forgetable. the guy from ky lary warford looks like a massive road grater type that we need.
    Just 12..

  2. #22
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    this is rob rang if i had a choice it would be lane for me he gives you the most flexiablity down the road going to the left when dbrck becomes to expensive



    7. Jonathan Cooper, OG, North Carolina: More athletic than Alabama's Chance Warmack and proving considerably stronger in Indianapolis than many had given him credit for (35 reps of 225), Cooper is a legitimate top 10 candidate, whose value is only increased by the fact that he can play center.

    8. Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama: If the draft were held a week after the 2013 BCS title game, Warmack might have been drafted in the top 10. Now, there are some veteran scouts who question if he'll be drafted in the top 20. Some long-time evaluators suggest Warmack will even make the first round. He is shorter than scouts would like (6-2 even) and has performed poorly in workouts. I refuse to drop him out of the top 10 because his efforts on the field against elite competition but he's raised red-flags with a less-than-ideal work ethic and could surprise with how far he "slips" on draft day.

    9. Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma: Having seen action at QB, DE and TE during his time at Kilgore Junior College (Texas), Johnson had already proven his athleticism. The 6-6, 303-pounder showed just how athletic he is at the combine, clocking in at 4.72 seconds in the 40-yard dash and registering a 34-inch vertical jump. With only two years at tackle, including just one on the blind side, Johnson isn't as polished as Joeckel or Fisher but may possess an even higher upside and some veteran scouts rank him as the elite tackle in this class.
    Last edited by joe810; 04-19-2013 at 02:12 PM. Reason: screwed up

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    Grow a pair. We spit on copyright infringement.
    Quote Originally Posted by long island leprechaun View Post
    Why don't you just report second hand what you read. If they prosecute, I'll defend you.
    sorry guys, i'm not really the daredevil, living-on-the-edge type.


    plus, i'm too pretty to go to jail.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe810 View Post
    i just dont think so how many gaurds are in the hof tackles and centers gaurds are just giards lets think in jets history back 10 years name me a gaurd you think was awesome yeah i cant maybe you can but tackles and centers joe fields marvin powel. so guards are forgetable. the guy from ky lary warford looks like a massive road grater type that we need.
    Randy Thomas, Dan Alexander, Dwayne White for a period of time, Brandon Moore. All were excellent players. If Warmack/Cooper grade out as top 10 talent and nobody else on the board does and you can't trade down, you take the OG and solidify your OL.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    Just 12..
    How many of them were 1st round picks?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    How many of them were 1st round picks?
    I'm sure you will enjoy looking that up.. Aw heck there were 15 not 12 and of the 15 9 were 1st rd picks..
    Last edited by Savage69; 04-19-2013 at 02:26 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Randy Thomas, Dan Alexander, Dwayne White for a period of time, Brandon Moore. All were excellent players. If Warmack/Cooper grade out as top 10 talent and nobody else on the board does and you can't trade down, you take the OG and solidify your OL.
    Brandon undrafted, Alexander was a college tackle drafted 6th round. White 7th round. Thomas was the highest in the 2nd, but not the best. Silly to draft guards in the first. The best athletes do not play guard in college.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    I'm sure you will enjoy looking that up.. Aw heck there were 15 not 12 and of the 15 9 were 1st rd picks..
    Okay now how many were college tackles converted to guard in the NFL?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Brandon undrafted, Alexander was a college tackle drafted 6th round. White 7th round. Thomas was the highest in the 2nd, but not the best. Silly to draft guards in the first. The best athletes do not play guard in college.
    And Moore was a DT not a OG..

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Okay now how many were college tackles converted to guard in the NFL?
    I'm done that one is on you..

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Brandon undrafted, Alexander was a college tackle drafted 6th round. White 7th round. Thomas was the highest in the 2nd, but not the best. Silly to draft guards in the first. The best athletes do not play guard in college.
    Thank you. It is ridiculous that some do not understand this.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY's stepchild View Post
    Brandon undrafted, Alexander was a college tackle drafted 6th round. White 7th round. Thomas was the highest in the 2nd, but not the best. Silly to draft guards in the first. The best athletes do not play guard in college.
    Not silly if they have the talent and can play.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    Thank you. It is ridiculous that some do not understand this.
    I guess Mayock doesn't since he has 2 OG going in the top 8.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I guess Mayock doesn't since he has 2 OG going in the top 8.
    He's not building a football team. If he were, he wouldn't be picking Guards that high.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    He's not building a football team. If he were, he wouldn't be picking Guards that high.
    And you know this? Ok

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    And you know this? Ok
    It's a fact. Tell me again how many Guards have been picked in the Top 10?

    If Mayock's ass was on the line as a GM, and he had to make ONE pick in the first round, history says he wouldn't take a Guard.

  17. #37
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    Chance Warmack, Jonathan Cooper demand top-10 attention

    By Adam Schein
    Columnist, NFL.com
    Published: April 16, 2013 at 02:21 p.m. Updated: April 18, 2013 at 10:25 p.m.

    Offensive guards aren't sexy. They don't provide sizzle. They don't boost your fan base. They rarely appear on the cover of your media guide or as the featured player on your game-day ticket.

    How often do you hear someone refer to a "franchise guard?" Think about it. You hear the "franchise" classification with regard to almost every other position.

    Yet, in the NFL, you either have an offensive line, or you don't. In the NFL, you either have a group that can pass protect and open up holes for your running back, or you have major problems. Which leads us to the league's annual exercise in team building ...

    This is one of the wildest and riskiest drafts in NFL history. Teams shouldn't overthink what is staring them in the face: Two of the best and safest picks in the 2013 NFL Draft are offensive guards.

    The offensive guard isn't going to draw cheers inside Radio City Music Hall. Some "gurus" might not be inclined to gush about the pick or give a passing draft grade. Who cares? Do you want to "win the draft" in the court of public opinion or do you want to win games?

    Take a look at the teams drafting in the top 10. There is a common denominator: They need help -- major help -- on the offensive line. Yet, how many mock drafts have guards going in the top 10?

    I think you can make the case that Alabama guard Chance Warmack is the single safest player in the draft. You can also make the very intelligent case that he is the single best player in this draft. Other than sheer foolishness or stubbornness, there is absolutely no reason Warmack shouldn't be a top-10 pick. The Arizona Cardinals, who hold the seventh overall pick, fielded a complete mess of an offensive line last year. The Buffalo Bills (picking eighth) lost Andy Levitre via free agency. The New York Jets (ninth) have a plethora of needs, including at both guard positions. If, for some reason, Warmack gets out of the top 10 -- the Tennessee Titans (10th) are the one team consistently projected to take a guard -- the San Diego Chargers (11th) and Miami Dolphins (12th) will be foaming at the mouth. And the Dallas Cowboys and Chicago Bears -- picking 18th and 20th, respectively -- have to be hoping teams picking ahead of them are stunningly ignorant and reluctant. Line play for the Chargers, Bears and Cowboys was embarrassing last season.

    And if, for some reason, Warmack gets out of the top 10, NFL executives who pass on him will rue the day. Warmack has "immediate impact" and "10-year All-Pro" written all over him. As one NFL executive I talked to gushed: "There's no weakness in his game. He is a physical road grader. Plus, he started 40 games at a football factory and played for Nick (Saban). He's ready. And he loves football." Another exec said, "I don't want to compare anyone to Will Shields, but he's Will Shields." That's high praise, indeed.

    North Carolina's Jonathan Cooper is also an excellent guard prospect who can step in right away and shine for a decade. All of the aforementioned teams should be salivating over this guy, too. As one NFL GM told me on Monday regarding the UNC product: "We are talking about a rare, rare athlete."

    NFL.com's Bucky Brooks identified Warmack and Cooper as "elite prospects," a designation he reserves for players who "should earn Pro Bowl recognition early in their careers and rank among the top five players at their respective positions within two or three years."

    If guards can't go in the top 10 now, then when?

    Some executives don't believe there is a single franchise quarterback in this draft. Still, there will be 1-3 quarterbacks taken in the first round. If more than one is selected, it's simply because there is a need for the position -- and an overall shortage of quality QBs walking the Earth.

    There's a good chance no running backs will go in Round 1. I'm a huge Tavon Austin fan, but he's a slot receiver. And then that position gets sketchy. Which other receivers, if any, are consistent enough to warrant a first-round selection?

    The pass rushers are a boom-or-bust group with major questions sparked by inexperience, injury issues and inconsistent motors. There are some classic combine warriors as well as guys in line for position changes.

    Alabama's Dee Milliner, the best cornerback in the draft, will be a top-10 pick -- but he's not as good as Joe Haden.

    The salaries of picks are slotted. You don't have to worry about busting your salary cap by taking an offensive guard early (even though such worries were foolish in the first place).

    Jacksonville Jaguars star running back Maurice Jones-Drew recently said on my SiriusXM Radio show that if he ran an NFL team, he would "draft like a baseball team" and always focus efforts "up the middle." He would put an emphasis on guards and centers. He called guards "the unsung heroes of a football team" and a "necessity to win."

    He's right.

    Let's see if archaic biases are in the past. Let's see if teams are interested in taking the best player and winning, as opposed to merely winning the moment.

    I will stand and applaud the teams that draft Warmack and Cooper, two of the best players in the draft.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap10...op10-attention



    NFL executives and scouts have characterized the 2013 NFL Draft class as one that lacks superstar talent at the top of the board but is littered with quality prospects down the line.

    John Elway, Denver Broncos' executive vice president of football operations, echoed that sentiment in a recent interview with The Denver Post.

    "The draft is not top-heavy," Elway told the Post's Mike Klis. "So we feel we can get as good a player at No. 28 as we could at 10. It's not like last year, with (Andrew) Luck and RG3 (Robert Griffin III). The year before, with Von (Miller), (Marcell) Dareus, A.J. Green and Patrick Peterson -- (a) loaded top end. This is probably a deeper draft, but not nearly as many top-impact guys."

    To be fair, the classes from 2011 and 2012 might rank as two of the best in NFL history, based on the immediate contributions of their members. From the record-breaking performances of Cam Newton and Aldon Smith to the emergence of unheralded stars like Russell Wilson and Alfred Morris, the recent success of first-year players has been remarkable. This year, however, evaluators are struggling to assess the elite, blue- and red-chip prospects.

    Now, the lack of sizzle surrounding this year's class is partially attributable to the fact that the top prospects play on the offensive line. Most observers are conditioned to expect a quarterback or pass rusher to dominate the headlines leading up to the draft, but the 2013 class lacks a clear-cut franchise player at those respective positions. As a result, teams looking for certainty have turned their attention to exceptional prospects at non-premier positions.

    With that premise as a backdrop, I've identified the elite, blue- and red-chip prospects in the 2013 class, based on film study and several conversations with scouts and coaches around the league.

    Elite prospects
    These players should earn Pro Bowl recognition early in their careers and rank among the top five players at their respective positions within two or three years.

    1) Eric Fisher, OT, Central Michigan
    2) Luke Joeckel, OT, Texas A&M
    3) Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama
    4) Jonathan Cooper, OG, North Carolina
    5) Dee Milliner, CB, Alabama

    Blue chips
    These prospects are regarded as difference-makers based solely on their talent. They should start as rookies and make immediate contributions to their respective teams.

    1) Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida
    2) Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia
    3) Dion Jordan, DE/OLB, Oregon
    4) Geno Smith, QB, West Virginia
    5) Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah
    6) Ezekiel "Ziggy" Ansah, DE, BYU
    7) Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma
    8) Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State
    9) Sheldon Richardson, DT, Missouri
    10) Keenan Allen, WR, Cal
    11) Alec Ogletree, LB, Georgia
    12) Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
    13) Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina
    14) Kenny Vaccaro, S, Texas
    15) Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame

    The blue-chip class is established through film study and workouts. Scouts spend a significant amount of time determining whether each prospect has the requisite critical factors (traits like athleticism, football intelligence, explosiveness and production) to develop into a difference-maker. Blue-chip players dominated the college competition, for the most part, while exhibiting the traits that traditionally translate into long-term success at the NFL level.

    Red-chip players, on the other hand, demonstrate several blue-chip qualities and characteristics but lack the consistent profile of their blue-chip counterparts. Whether it's because of sub-standard physical dimensions and athleticism or inconsistent on-field performance, players in the red-chip category are regarded as being a notch below elite. In the right system, however, they could emerge as Pro Bowl players. Several of these prospects will hear their names called in the first round, though scouts across the league are divided in their opinions as to their pro potential.

    Red chips
    These players should contribute as part-time players initially but should be starters by the end of the season. Additionally, they should be key contributors on special teams and provide timely playmaking in their designated roles.

    1) Barkevious Mingo, DE/OLB, LSU
    2) Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee
    3) Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State
    4) Manti Te'o, LB, Notre Dame
    5) Eric Reid, S, LSU
    6) Damontre Moore, DE, Texas A&M
    7) Matt Elam, S, Florida
    8) David Amerson, CB, N.C. State
    9) Robert Woods, WR, USC
    10) Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
    11) Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
    12) Eddie Lacy, RB, Alabama
    13) Matt Barkley, QB, USC
    14) D.J. Fluker, OT, Alabama
    15) EJ Manuel, QB, Florida State
    16) Le'Veon Bell, RB, Michigan State
    17) Menelik Watson, OT, Florida State
    18) DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Clemson
    19) Giovani Bernard, RB, North Carolina
    20) Justin Hunter, WR, Tennessee

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap10...-and-red-chips

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    It's a fact. Tell me again how many Guards have been picked in the Top 10?

    If Mayock's ass was on the line as a GM, and he had to make ONE pick in the first round, history says he wouldn't take a Guard.
    Where did I say "if Mayock had to make one pick" ? And you can't answer for anyone in that position, but yourself.

    Mayock (and others) have ranked them in the top 8. Jets pick 9.

  19. #39
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    why would anyone feel the need to throw out former Jet OG to any discussion regarding talent.. The Jets are the last team anyone should look at ! they haven't been to a Superbowl since 1969.....

    Dominating line of scrimmage is a must.. drafting talented players in all rounds is a must..


    OG.. let's see. Gene Upshaw, Alan Faneca, Larry Allen, Russ Grim

  20. #40
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    I don't know.. to me, a first round guard is a luxury, and isn't going make a bad football team much better. That's not to say that you don't need a strong OL - I just don't think that you need to invest a 1st round pick on a guard to get the strong OL.

    It's cliche, but the Jets need play makers- on both sides of the ball. We all know that at #9 there aren't any realistic offensive options, so that's why I wouldn't mind grabbing a less safe OLB prospect over a 'sure' thing like Warmack at #9. Get your pass rusher, grab a WR/TE in round 2, and take a guard or two in the mid-late rounds where you can still find a starter.

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