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Thread: Mel Kiper

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'm not even sure where you're going with this.

    Please show me the QB or passrusher in this draft class that has HOF potential and I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon and be in favor of drafting him at all cost.

    There is no Andrew Luck or RGIII in this draft.

    There is no Von Miller in this draft.


    The value is along the O-line where a handful of future all-pros could emerge.
    Thank you!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I'm not even sure where you're going with this.

    Please show me the QB or passrusher in this draft class that has HOF potential and I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon and be in favor of drafting him at all cost.

    There is no Andrew Luck or RGIII in this draft.

    There is no Von Miller in this draft.


    The value is along the O-line where a handful of future all-pros could emerge.
    If you truly believe Cooper and Warmack are solid HOFers right now your lost. You dont draft a guy because you think he will be a HOFers. You draft based on how much they can improve your team. Even an average QB would improve this team over a friggen G. There could be a K that is HOF worthy in here too I'm not taking him in the 1st. There is just not enough value in a G to justify passing on talent prime position player. Your just flat out wrong thinking a G would be a good 1st round pick. I can hear the media making clown jokes right after that pick.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    If you truly believe Cooper and Warmack are solid HOFers right now your lost. You dont draft a guy because you think he will be a HOFers. You draft based on how much they can improve your team. Even an average QB would improve this team over a friggen G. There could be a K that is HOF worthy in here too I'm not taking him in the 1st. There is just not enough value in a G to justify passing on talent prime position player. Your just flat out wrong thinking a G would be a good 1st round pick. I can hear the media making clown jokes right after that pick.
    Please show me where I already put Warmack and Cooper in Canton?

    And if you don't think that OG is a need for this team, then you're lost.

    Ducasse has proven to be nothing more than a scrub and Colon has missed almost 40 games over the last 3 years.

    Sorry, but I'm not comfortable with these guys starting. I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy like that.

    And it doesn't really mean much to me if you don't value interior OL as 1st round picks.

    Guys like Mike Mayock, Tony Pauline, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, Charles Davis, Daniel Jeremiah, etc all say that Warmack is not only a 1st round talent, but a Top 10 talent.

    Something tells me that these guys know how to evaluate football talent more than you do. Just a hunch.
    Last edited by Untouchable; 04-20-2013 at 08:13 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Please show me where I already put Warmack and Cooper in Canton?

    And if you don't think that OG is a need for this team, then you're lost.

    Ducasse has proven to be nothing more than a scrub and Colon has missed almost 40 games over the last 3 years.

    Sorry, but I'm not comfortable with these guys starting. I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy like that.

    And it doesn't really mean much to me if you don't value interior OL as 1st round picks.

    Guys like Mike Mayock, Tony Pauline, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, Daniel Jeremiah, etc all say that Warmack is not only a 1st round talent, but a Top 10 talent.

    Something tells me that these guys know how to evaluate football talent more than you do. Just a hunch.
    I guess I'll take the blame for the Canton comment. But I wasn't putting them in Canton just asking if their careers progress that way. I read one of the Mayocks, Jermiahs etc. (I can't remember which one) state they only saw Warmack and Cooper as the only potential HOF players from this draft.

    I just can't see how people say you don't take an OG in the top 10 or 1st round. If they grade out as that type of talent and are sitting there at the top of the board as the best player when it's your turn to pick, and you can't trade down, what's wrong with picking an OG, especially when it's a need.

    I heard Tony Pauline say if the Jets pick Cooper at #9 it would be an excellent pick and it wouldn't be a 'reach'. Cooper is that good of a talent/player and might be a better fit than Warmack for the system the Jets want to run.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    Please show me where I already put Warmack and Cooper in Canton?

    And if you don't think that OG is a need for this team, then you're lost.

    Ducasse has proven to be nothing more than a scrub and Colon has missed almost 40 games over the last 3 years.

    Sorry, but I'm not comfortable with these guys starting. I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy like that.

    And it doesn't really mean much to me if you don't value interior OL as 1st round picks.

    Guys like Mike Mayock, Tony Pauline, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, Charles Davis, Daniel Jeremiah, etc all say that Warmack is not only a 1st round talent, but a Top 10 talent.

    Something tells me that these guys know how to evaluate football talent more than you do. Just a hunch.
    They can say it doent make it true. Is he a good G prospect yeah doesnt mean he is worth jack as a top ten prospect. I highly doubt these guys actually believe a G is worth a top ten pick. Saying he is one of the top prospects doesnt mean they think he is worth a top ten pick. These guys would all laugh if we made that pick I guarantee it. Kiper is a smug ass that would call the best player in the draft a bad pick for the JETS. Like he did last year. A G is not the the missing piece. We have a good OL just nothing else on O. Why not just keep ignoring our biggest issues anther year?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I guess I'll take the blame for the Canton comment. But I wasn't putting them in Canton just asking if their careers progress that way. I read one of the Mayocks, Jermiahs etc. (I can't remember which one) state they only saw Warmack and Cooper as the only potential HOF players from this draft.

    I just can't see how people say you don't take an OG in the top 10 or 1st round. If they grade out as that type of talent and are sitting there at the top of the board as the best player when it's your turn to pick, and you can't trade down, what's wrong with picking an OG, especially when it's a need.

    I heard Tony Pauline say if the Jets pick Cooper at #9 it would be an excellent pick and it wouldn't be a 'reach'. Cooper is that good of a talent/player and might be a better fit than Warmack for the system the Jets want to run.
    I absolutely agree that they have HOF potential.

    I guess Dreamers confuses "HOF potential" with "your're saying this guy is already a HOFer".

    If respected draft gurus are comparing Cooper and Warmack to HOFers like Randall McDaniel and Will Shields, then that tells me that they have HOF caliber talent.

    I've said it before, this whole "you don't draft guards in the 1st round" crap is an outdated philosophy grounded in ignorance.

    I'm not going to take a much lesser player just because they play a position that is deemed as more important.

    I'll take Warmack/Cooper over Mingo/Ansah any day of the week.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I guess I'll take the blame for the Canton comment. But I wasn't putting them in Canton just asking if their careers progress that way. I read one of the Mayocks, Jermiahs etc. (I can't remember which one) state they only saw Warmack and Cooper as the only potential HOF players from this draft.

    I just can't see how people say you don't take an OG in the top 10 or 1st round. If they grade out as that type of talent and are sitting there at the top of the board as the best player when it's your turn to pick, and you can't trade down, what's wrong with picking an OG, especially when it's a need.

    I heard Tony Pauline say if the Jets pick Cooper at #9 it would be an excellent pick and it wouldn't be a 'reach'. Cooper is that good of a talent/player and might be a better fit than Warmack for the system the Jets want to run.

    CMART it isnt your fault that is just the only argument you could possible take for taking a position like G that early. Even if he is a ten year solid starter it doesnt make a G a good pick. Not when you could be passing on 10 year starters at OLB, S, CB, QB, or DL. It is just not very good value unless it is the missing piece of the puzzle. OL take years to develop and as far a G and RT most of the best starters are not taking that early. This is a strong draft for G so if you need one there really isnt any justification to take one mad early. It is just a reach pick. Any GM making that pick is putting his ass right out there to be fired. If your a top ten pick it means the team needs as much help as it can get. A G just doesnt do that. If people think Idzick is setting himself up in his 1st year to go 6-10 again I dont see it. He doesnt want to get fired I assure you.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    They can say it doent make it true. Is he a good G prospect yeah doesnt mean he is worth jack as a top ten prospect. I highly doubt these guys actually believe a G is worth a top ten pick. Saying he is one of the top prospects doesnt mean they think he is worth a top ten pick. These guys would all laugh if we made that pick I guarantee it. Kiper is a smug ass that would call the best player in the draft a bad pick for the JETS. Like he did last year. A G is not the the missing piece. We have a good OL just nothing else on O. Why not just keep ignoring our biggest issues anther year?
    We have a good OL?

    Based on what, Brick and Mangold?

    What was once the foundation of this offense has turned into a game of musical chairs every year.

    Faneca - Gone

    Woody - Gone

    Moore - Gone

    Slauson - Gone


    And who's replacing Moore and Slauson? Vladimir f*cking Ducasse and Willie Colon, who can't stay healthy to save his life?

    Sorry buddy, there's nothing "good" about that.

    This is one of the weakest top ends of any draft in recent memory. So I'm going where the value is.

    Everyone knows that this is a meat and potatoes draft. The value is along the offensive and defensive lines.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I absolutely agree that they have HOF potential.

    I guess Dreamers confuses "HOF potential" with "your're saying this guy is already a HOFer".

    If respected draft gurus are comparing Cooper and Warmack to HOFers like Randall McDaniel and Will Shields, then that tells me that they have HOF caliber talent.

    I've said it before, this whole "you don't draft guards in the 1st round" crap is an outdated philosophy grounded in ignorance.

    I'm not going to take a much lesser player just because they play a position that is deemed as more important.

    I'll take Warmack/Cooper over Mingo/Ansah any day of the week.
    Which again brings me back to the question I just asked. What 1st round G in the history of the NFL do you think without him his team doesnt win a SB? Really I'd like to know what G carried his team that much where he'd be worth a top ten in any draft.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    They can say it doent make it true. Is he a good G prospect yeah doesnt mean he is worth jack as a top ten prospect. I highly doubt these guys actually believe a G is worth a top ten pick. Saying he is one of the top prospects doesnt mean they think he is worth a top ten pick. These guys would all laugh if we made that pick I guarantee it. Kiper is a smug ass that would call the best player in the draft a bad pick for the JETS. Like he did last year. A G is not the the missing piece. We have a good OL just nothing else on O. Why not just keep ignoring our biggest issues anther year?
    They are writing it. Go look at Mayocks top 100. He has both OGs in his top 8. And who gives a rats ass what Kiper says. If the player can help win games who gives a crap.

    BTW-Kiper loved the Mo Wilk pick. So you can now sleep better tonight.

    So you would rather take a lesser graded player? Isn't that what people ***** about on here all the time. How the Jets 'reached' for a player.

    And if you don't think really good OG play can't help a team well I don't know what else to say. People *****ed on here for months / yrs over the Faneca release and he was well at the end of his career.

    As I stated above, Tony Pauline has said it and said it would be an excellent pick for the Jets.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    We have a good OL?

    Based on what, Brick and Mangold?

    What was once the foundation of this offense has turned into a game of musical chairs every year.

    Faneca - Gone

    Woody - Gone

    Moore - Gone

    Slauson - Gone


    And who's replacing Moore and Slauson? Vladimir f*cking Ducasse and Willie Colon, who can't stay healthy to save his life?

    Sorry buddy, there's nothing "good" about that.

    This is one of the weakest top ends of any draft in recent memory. So I'm going where the value is.

    Everyone knows that this is a meat and potatoes draft. The value is along the offensive and defensive lines.
    Slauson was crap still say Vlad is not a downgrade. Moore was good but Colon is young and G. Moore was far from being his old self last year I dont see where the line has downgraded and it didnt play bad at all last year. An average line is just that average it isnt going to help your **** QB or RB play better. Address the real issues dont try to fix what is working with stupid off the wall picks like G in the top ten.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    They are writing it. Go look at Mayocks top 100. He has both OGs in his top 8. And who gives a rats ass what Kiper says. If the player can help win games who gives a crap.

    BTW-Kiper loved the Mo Wilk pick. So you can now sleep better tonight.

    So you would rather take a lesser graded player? Isn't that what people ***** about on here all the time. How the Jets 'reached' for a player.

    And if you don't think an really good OG play can't help a team well I don't know what else to say. People *****ed on here for months / yrs over the Faneca release and he was well at the end of his career.

    As I stated above, Tony Pauline has said it and said it would be an excellent pick for the Jets.
    An OLB, DL, WR, or DB wouldnt be a reach. There are a lot of good players well worth a high pick. G shouldnt even be on our short list. This is taking a K in the 2nd all over again IMO.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    An OLB, DL, WR, or DB wouldnt be a reach. There are a lot of good players well worth a high pick. G shouldnt even be on our short list. This is taking a K in the 2nd all over again IMO.
    I wonder how Raiders fans feel about taking Janikowski in the 1st round 10+ yrs ago.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    I guess I'll take the blame for the Canton comment. But I wasn't putting them in Canton just asking if their careers progress that way. I read one of the Mayocks, Jermiahs etc. (I can't remember which one) state they only saw Warmack and Cooper as the only potential HOF players from this draft.

    I just can't see how people say you don't take an OG in the top 10 or 1st round. If they grade out as that type of talent and are sitting there at the top of the board as the best player when it's your turn to pick, and you can't trade down, what's wrong with picking an OG, especially when it's a need.

    I heard Tony Pauline say if the Jets pick Cooper at #9 it would be an excellent pick and it wouldn't be a 'reach'. Cooper is that good of a talent/player and might be a better fit than Warmack for the system the Jets want to run.
    I want a g at 9. But if the jets pick Cooper with Chance available it will get double the scrutiny...

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    I absolutely agree that they have HOF potential.

    I guess Dreamers confuses "HOF potential" with "your're saying this guy is already a HOFer".

    If respected draft gurus are comparing Cooper and Warmack to HOFers like Randall McDaniel and Will Shields, then that tells me that they have HOF caliber talent.

    I've said it before, this whole "you don't draft guards in the 1st round" crap is an outdated philosophy grounded in ignorance.

    I'm not going to take a much lesser player just because they play a position that is deemed as more important.

    I'll take Warmack/Cooper over Mingo/Ansah any day of the week.
    Who needs these guys, right.

    Summary: One of the best guards to enter the NFL since John Hannah, Warmack is capable of dominating in the run game and fortifying the pocket in pass protection. He is a physical, difference-making power blocker. An intimidating heavyweight with power, strength and explosion to become a perennial Pro Bowl performer.


    Summary: Cooper draws Hall of Fame comparisons to greats such as Randall McDaniel and Dermontti Dawson. Could turn out to be an even better center than guard if he trimmed weight. A fun-to-watch, immediate impact starter and perennial Pro Bowl talent who could be dynamite in a zone-blocking scheme. A canít miss pick.

    http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...outing-reports

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    Which again brings me back to the question I just asked. What 1st round G in the history of the NFL do you think without him his team doesnt win a SB? Really I'd like to know what G carried his team that much where he'd be worth a top ten in any draft.
    This is getting to be foolish. Which top ten WR carried his team? Which top ten CB carried his team? Other than QB, there is no top ten selection that has reversed the fortunes of an entire team. This happens to be a special year for a couple of guards. I am entirely with you that history does not support high picks for guards or right tackles. The issue is really what the relative value differential to a team would be in picking Warmack or Cooper vs. Worford or Winters. The reality is that Warmack and Cooper will comfortably start as rookies. Worford perhaps. Winters probably not. Couple this with the fact that even the best OLB's on the board will require development and/or position switches and the case becomes stronger for the guards. I personally would go with the high-end OLB/DE. I think they will justify their pick. But it's very hard to argue with the logic of picking Warmack or Cooper. At least in this draft. They are in fact special and will make a difference to any team's OL, particularly the Jets, who have holes in precisely this area.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    There isnt really a top 10 QB this year. Gino could be, but could also slide down to the mid-late 1st if he makes it past the Bills.

    I think youre spot on with OT and Pass rusher, in no particular order.
    If Geno makes it past the Bills - and the Jets - then he could end up back in Round 2, barring a trade up. I just don't see any team picking after us choosing a QB in Round 1.

    And if he does drop, there could be quite a rush for QB's at the bottom of Round 1 / top of Round 2. If I'm sitting at the bottom of Round 1, I'm already looking at offers to trade back, for when the QB rush starts.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post
    We have a good OL?

    Based on what, Brick and Mangold?

    What was once the foundation of this offense has turned into a game of musical chairs every year.

    Faneca - Gone

    Woody - Gone

    Moore - Gone

    Slauson - Gone


    And who's replacing Moore and Slauson? Vladimir f*cking Ducasse and Willie Colon, who can't stay healthy to save his life?

    Sorry buddy, there's nothing "good" about that.

    This is one of the weakest top ends of any draft in recent memory. So I'm going where the value is.

    Everyone knows that this is a meat and potatoes draft. The value is along the offensive and defensive lines.
    The same people complaining about taking a guard early will be the same ones complaining when an Adrien Clarke type 7th round scrub gets our QB killed on opening day.

    Though if it's Sanchize, maybe not!

  19. #79
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    since when do guards or even tackles rank ahead of the skill positions like wr, rb, qb, cb or even lb? the beef usually comes in rounds 4-7 or via fa's. for warmack to go no. 9 or even in the first 10 would mean he had better be the second coming of john hannah or even alan faneca.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sameoldjets View Post
    since when do guards or even tackles rank ahead of the skill positions like wr, rb, qb, cb or even lb? the beef usually comes in rounds 4-7 or via fa's. for warmack to go no. 9 or even in the first 10 would mean he had better be the second coming of john hannah or even alan faneca.
    What QB, RB, or WR is there this year. I'd love to get a monster WR. There just isn't one rated there. Every OLB has question marks. There is no QB there. So take the best player. If it is a guard, take the guard. I think our OLine is real shaky and thin. I would be fine if they. Went guard in the first and again in the 4th.

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