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Thread: School Choice

  1. #1
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    School Choice

    So, I'm curious... what's left to debate?

    http://www.cato.org/blog/school-choice-works

    The evidence is in: school choice works. Yesterday, the Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice released their third edition of their report “A Win-Win Solution: The Empirical Evidence on School Choice.” The report provides a literature review of dozens of high-quality studies of school choice programs around the country, including studies from scholars at Harvard University, Stanford University, Cornell University, the University of Arkansas, the Brookings Institution, and the Federal Reserve Bank. The studies examine the impact of school choice programs on the academic performance of participants and public school students, the fiscal impact on taxpayers, racial segregation, and civic values.

    The report’s key findings included the following:

    Twelve empirical studies have examined academic outcomes for school choice participants using random assignment, the “gold standard” of social science. Of these, 11 find that choice improves student outcomes—six that all students benefit and five that some benefit and some are not affected. One study finds no visible impact. No empirical study has found a negative impact.
    Twenty-three empirical studies (including all methods) have examined school choice’s impact on academic outcomes in public schools. Of these, 22 find that choice improves public schools and one finds no visible impact. No empirical study has found that choice harms public schools.
    Six empirical studies have examined school choice’s fiscal impact on taxpayers. All six find that school choice saves money for taxpayers. No empirical study has found a negative fiscal impact.
    Eight empirical studies have examined school choice and racial segregation in schools. Of these, seven find that school choice moves students from more segregated schools into less segregated schools. One finds no net effect on segregation from school choice. No empirical study has found that choice increases racial segregation.
    Seven empirical studies have examined school choice’s impact on civic values and practices such as respect for the rights of others and civic knowledge. Of these, five find that school choice improves civic values and practices. Two find no visible impact from school choice. No empirical study has found that school choice has a negative impact on civic values and practices.
    On the same day, a new study from researchers at Harvard University and the Brookings Institution found that a school choice program boosted college enrollment among African-American participants by 24 percent.

    While many of the findings show only modest improvement, they consistently show that school choice programs produce the same or superior results across a gamut of measures. Moreover, not all the benefits of choice are easily measurable. Some families are looking for a school that better meets a student’s special needs, instills the parents’ values, inspires a lifelong love of learning, or where a student is safe from bullying. These outcomes are sometimes difficult if not impossible to measure in the aggregate, but parents are in the best position to tell the difference for their own children.

  2. #2
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    "Facts" are relative, as is "truth". All that matters is what the individual believes.
    "scientists", "science", "studies" - all for people too lazy to think for themselves.



    Welcome to Tyranny of the Stupid.

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    Testing! Rigged lotteries! Select only the best students! Racist! Unions! Not Fair! Corporate shills!

    Just getting the deep meaningful arguments against school choice out of the way. I am in NJ and my town has seen a lot of benefits from school choice. Our grade school (Pre-K-6) is excellent so we were a pilot program for school choice. Last year there were 90-something kids brought into the district via the school choice program. This filled the classrooms in a small town and brought money in rewarding a good system.

    However since it is such a small town they send out of district for 7-12 to one of the worst districts in the state. People in town have tried to get us out of that arrangement before school choice came around. Arguments against taking our town out of the other district was that you are racist for wanting to and that there wouldn't be enough racial diversity in the school if the kids from our town left (town is mostly blue collar white/Hispanic receiving district is mostly Hispanic/black).

    Now with school choice parents can choose to keep their kids in the normal receiving district or can apply to any other school with space. Win/Win.

    My favorite part of it is the irony of our town getting upset that families are choosing to go to other schools and that their money is going out of town instead of to the decided upon receiving district yet they were happy to take money and kids from 90 other families. Irony, I guess they don't teach that in school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    "Facts" are relative, as is "truth". All that matters is what the individual believes.
    "scientists", "science", "studies" - all for people too lazy to think for themselves.



    Welcome to Tyranny of the Stupid.
    My niece came home from school yesterday and told my sister that Andrew Jackson didn't deserve to be on the $20 bill. My sis asked her if her teacher told the class why Andrew Jackson is on the bill in the first place - of course not.

    He only founded the Democratic party. Ingrates.

  5. #5
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    I'm all for school choice as long as I'm not paying for it and those who choose to send their kids to private schools or home school aren't getting offsetting tax credits that pull money from public education.

    If we are talking about school choice in the context of a public school system have at it.

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    I am actually totally against school choice. I think a child should go to the public school where they live. Go to school with the neighboring children.
    Of course, some can choose to send their kids to a religious school for religious reasons. No problem kif they pay transportation and do not get a tax offset.
    As far as education quality: children should be "sorted" by ability. Various levels so you can progress accordingly. This is not new. We had classes within classes in the early 50s. In Hs, we had 5 different levels af ability. Seemed to work fine. And smart kids could still have some time with friends at other levels.
    Charters and magnets scream segregation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    So, I'm curious... what's left to debate?

    http://www.cato.org/blog/school-choice-works

    The evidence is in: school choice works. Yesterday, the Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice released their third edition of their report “A Win-Win Solution: The Empirical Evidence on School Choice.” The report provides a literature review of dozens of high-quality studies of school choice programs around the country, including studies from scholars at Harvard University, Stanford University, Cornell University, the University of Arkansas, the Brookings Institution, and the Federal Reserve Bank. The studies examine the impact of school choice programs on the academic performance of participants and public school students, the fiscal impact on taxpayers, racial segregation, and civic values.

    The report’s key findings included the following:

    Twelve empirical studies have examined academic outcomes for school choice participants using random assignment, the “gold standard” of social science. Of these, 11 find that choice improves student outcomes—six that all students benefit and five that some benefit and some are not affected. One study finds no visible impact. No empirical study has found a negative impact.
    Twenty-three empirical studies (including all methods) have examined school choice’s impact on academic outcomes in public schools. Of these, 22 find that choice improves public schools and one finds no visible impact. No empirical study has found that choice harms public schools.
    Six empirical studies have examined school choice’s fiscal impact on taxpayers. All six find that school choice saves money for taxpayers. No empirical study has found a negative fiscal impact.
    Eight empirical studies have examined school choice and racial segregation in schools. Of these, seven find that school choice moves students from more segregated schools into less segregated schools. One finds no net effect on segregation from school choice. No empirical study has found that choice increases racial segregation.
    Seven empirical studies have examined school choice’s impact on civic values and practices such as respect for the rights of others and civic knowledge. Of these, five find that school choice improves civic values and practices. Two find no visible impact from school choice. No empirical study has found that school choice has a negative impact on civic values and practices.
    On the same day, a new study from researchers at Harvard University and the Brookings Institution found that a school choice program boosted college enrollment among African-American participants by 24 percent.

    While many of the findings show only modest improvement, they consistently show that school choice programs produce the same or superior results across a gamut of measures. Moreover, not all the benefits of choice are easily measurable. Some families are looking for a school that better meets a student’s special needs, instills the parents’ values, inspires a lifelong love of learning, or where a student is safe from bullying. These outcomes are sometimes difficult if not impossible to measure in the aggregate, but parents are in the best position to tell the difference for their own children.
    The Liberal opposition to school choice is probably the most glaring example of liberals screwing over their one of their core constituency and the good of the country as a whole to cow tow to their financial union backers. If there was one program that has the power to fight poverty and open upward mobility for inner city poor its school choice and charter schools. Yet liberals oppose it because their leadership in the Democrat party tells them its bad. Inner city poor which vote 95% democrat literally screw themselves when they fall for the lies the unions spew about choice. Its sad because in their greed they seem to have no problem hurting the most vulnerable children in our society.

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    Keep beating that dead horse. It just about over. Most intelligent Americans are onto the new $$$chool reforms.

    You had your way for awhile, teacher bashing and screaming for new school reform for the last ten or so years with fraudulent reformist like Bush, Bloomberg, Obama, Gates, and Zuckerburg looking to get their greedy claws into America's children.

    Its all but over soon. Multiple media outlets reporting how ridiculous charter schools and standardized tests are. How both have miserably failed. How most have agendas of corporate greed. Far too many to post.

    How about just invest in public education instead of taking away from it like charter schools do? Investing in "charter like" schools only adds to the existing problem. It caters ONLY to the "selected" and ignore the neediest. The students who are not chosen are left for the "true" educators to deal with, the public school teachers.

    Bye bye new school reforms, the public is on to you...........

    Stand up for what is good for students, not the billionaires profiting from charter schools and standardized testing.

    Join the movement

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Long-...11021932327048
    Last edited by copernicus; 04-30-2013 at 10:02 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Keep beating that dead horse. It just about over. Most intelligent Americans are onto the new $$$chool reforms.

    You had your way for awhile, teacher bashing and screaming for new school reform for the last ten or so years with fraudulent reformist like Bush, Bloomberg, Obama, Gates, and Zuckerburg looking to get their greedy claws into America's children.

    Its all but over soon. Multiple media outlets reporting how ridiculous charter schools and standardized tests are. How both have miserably failed. How most have agendas of corporate greed. Far too many to post.

    How about just invest in public education instead of taking away from it like charter schools do? Investing in "charter like" schools only adds to the existing problem. It caters ONLY to the "selected" and ignore the neediest. The students who are not chosen are left for the "true" educators to deal with, the public school teachers.

    Bye bye new school reforms, the public is on to you...........

    Stand up for what is good for students, not the billionaires profiting from charter schools and standardized testing.

    Join the movement

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Long-...11021932327048
    That's a lot of words that say absolutely nothing.

    Care to actually address the facts presented?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetPotato View Post
    That's a lot of words that say absolutely nothing.

    Care to actually address the facts presented?
    Again, its very simple, new school reform is a collasall failure. Exactly what teachers have been saying for years. But dont worry JP, you are like most Americans who listen to screaming politicians and news outlets they have in their pockets who want you to believe every teacher is awful and that only billionaires really are about children's education. New school reform is ONLY about the greed of corporate America taking away funds that should be going towards public schools.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...block-latest-/

    Education Secretary Arne Duncan would be a very wise man if he started paying close attention to the sticks being poked in the eyes of the Obama administration regarding those one-size-fits-all Common Core State Standards.

    Not all states and localities bought into his “absolute game changer” claim — and for absolutely good reasons, including a “very large, very permanent federal footprint.”

    Common Core was and is being sold as a set of academic standards that would improve teaching and learning and better prepare young people for college and careers.

    Supported by the National Governors Association and Council of Chief State School Officers, Common Core was adopted in dozens of states, territories and the District. The buy-in came courtesy of new federal money and many of the jurisdictions have already begun implementation.

    While Virginia rightly opted out early on, preferring its own rigorous standards and testing policies, Maryland officials looked at the potential tax dollars and started rubbing their hands. The state is planning to begin implementing the Common Core standards in K-12 classrooms this fall and begin testing students the following school year.

    D.C. school officials, ahead of both their neighbors, began gnawing on the carrots so soon they started implementing Common Core during the 2011-12 year in grade schools and transitioned all grades this school year. They, too, are slated to launch assessments during the 2014-15 school year.

    But after taking a closer look, parents can be found calling the Obama administration’s carrot-dangling approach to national standards “un-American” and a “very large, very permanent federal footprint,” as two opponents in Idaho characterized them in a school meeting last week, and grass-roots organizations and lawmakers in Florida, Indiana, Utah, Michigan, Illinois, Arizona, Kansas, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia and South Carolina, among others, are mounting opposition.

    Organizations positioned to push back Common Core include the Home School Legal Defense Association, American Association of Christian Schools, Cato Institute and Campaign for Liberty and Heartland Institute.

    Late Friday night, the Indiana General Assembly passed legislation to backtrack Common Core. This after the state education board adopted the standards three years ago and began implementing the new standards on kindergartners in 2011, first-graders in 2012 and has set plans to bring in second-graders this year.

    Obviously moving way too fast, Indiana school officials want to expand to all grade levels in 2014 and begin testing students the same year.

    Small wonder Hoosier lawmakers voted to slow the state’s roll.

    One of opponents’ chief arguments is that by accepting the feds’ carrots (money) their sovereignty will become a pawn in a game of federal control, even though Mr. Duncan constantly argues that Common Core participation is voluntary.

    But one of the spotlights of truth shines brighter. Again, here is what an Idaho opponent, Susan Frickey, said: “Look hard at the intended and unintended consequences of this path, particularly the very large, very permanent federal footprint evidenced in compliance with these standards and what they would mean to our local education and state sovereignty in Idaho.”

    Translation: Bureaucrats in Washington, D.C., are stomping on states’ rights and our children’s futures and school choice and parental concern and well you get the picture.

    Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz2S0MN1FxR
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

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    http://www.schoolsmatter.info/

    Friday, April 19, 2013
    America Awakening to Refreshing New Possibility: Tell Bill Gates to Take His Money and Go to Hell

    When the LA Times starts having doubts about the wisdom of His Aged Geekiness, Billy Gates, then you have to know the worm is turning quickly. After all, it was the LA Times that published Gates-approved teacher ratings that ended in the suicide of Rigoberto Ruelas in 2010.

    Perhaps Team Obama should have a second look at its decision to put corporate foundations in charge of U. S. education policy. Just perhaps there is something to be learned from a hundred years of academic research that the corporate drones have summarily dismissed. From the LA Times editorial page:

    . . . .Prodded heavily by reform groups, many of which receive funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, states and school districts have in some cases taken the use of students' scores to extremes that have no grounding in research, making them count for half or more of a teacher's rating, or hastily concocting tests to measure unmeasurable subjects — and then applying the results to teachers. The most mocked example is Ohio's extensive new exam in physical education, which includes measuring whether students' movements while skipping are adequately smooth.

    In 2010, California was denied $700 million in federal Race to the Top funds, largely because it declined to require that student test scores be linked to teacher ratings — something the Obama administration had demanded in return for the money, even though there was little if any evidence that the scores had value as indicators of a teacher's work.

    . . . . When philanthropists have potentially useful ideas about education, they should by all means try them out, establish pilot programs, put their money where their mouths are. But before government officials incorporate those ideas into policy, they must study them carefully and make sure that what sounds reasonable in theory works in practice.

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    Here is education in America today. Good to see that our tax money is being spent so wisely

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-with-testing/

    A brief history of Pearson’s problems with testing

    Posted by Valerie Strauss on April 24, 2013 at 4:00 am

    A few days ago I wrote a post about how Pearson, the world’s largest education company, was forced to apologize for making errors in its scoring of assessments for entry into gifted-and-talented programs in New York City public schools. I noted that it was hardly the only time Pearson has had problems with testing. Here’s a list of problems that the company has had with standardized tests over the years, in different states. It was compiled by Bob Schaeffer, public education director of FairTest, or the National Center for Fair & Open Testing, a non-profit dedicated to ending the misuse of standardized tests.

    1998 California – test score delivery delayed

    1999-2000 Arizona – 12,000 tests misgraded due to flawed answer key

    2000 Florida – test score delivery delayed resulting in $4 million fine

    2000 Minnesota – misgraded 45,739 graduation tests leads to lawsuit with $11 million settlement – judge found “years of quality control problems” and a “culture emphasizing profitability and cost-cutting.” — (FairTest consulted with plaintiffs’ attorneys)

    2000 Washington – 204,000 writing WASL exams rescored

    2002 Florida — dozens of school districts received no state grades for their
    2002 scores because of a “programming error” at the DOE. One Montessori school never received scores because NCS Pearson claimed not to have received the tests.

    2005 Michigan — scores delayed and fines levied per contract

    2005 Virginia – computerized test misgraded – five students awarded $5,000 scholarships

    2005-2006 SAT college admissions test – 4400 tests wrongly scored; $3 million settlement after lawsuit (note FairTest was an expert witness for plaintiffs)

    2008 South Carolina –“Scoring Error Delays School Report Cards” The State, November 14, 2008

    2008-2009 Arkansas — first graders forced to retake exam because real test used for practice

    2009-2010 Wyoming – Pearson’s new computer adaptive PAWS flops; state declares company in “complete default of the contract;” $5.1 million fine accepted after negotiations but not pursued by state governor

    2010 Florida – test score delivery delayed by more than a month – nearly $15 million in fines imposed and paid. School superintendents still question score accuracy –

    2010 Minnesota -- results from online science tests taken by 180,000 students delayed due to scoring error

    2011 Florida – some writing exams delivered to districts without cover sheets, revealing subject students would be asked to write about

    2011 Florida – new computerized algebra end-of-course exam delivery system crashes on first day of administration

    2012 New York – “Pineapple and the Hare” nonsense test question removed from exams after bloggers demonstrate that it was previously administered in at least half a dozen other states

    2012 New York – More than two dozen additional errors found in New York State tests developed by Pearson

    2012 Florida – After percentage of fourth grades found “proficient” plunges from 81% to 27% in one year, state Board of Education emergency meeting “fixes” scores on FCAT Writing Test by changing definition of proficiency.

    2012 Virginia – Error on computerized 3rd and 6th grade SOL tests causes state to offer free retakes.

    2012 New York – Parents have their children boycott “field test” of new exam questions because of concerns about Pearson’s process

    2012 Oklahoma – After major test delivery delays, state replaces Pearson as its testing contractor

    2012 New York – More than 7,000 New York City elementary and middle school students wrongly blocked from graduation by inaccurate “preliminary scores” on Pearson tests

    2012 New York – State officials warn Pearson about potential fines if tests have more errors

    2012 Mississippi – Pearson pays $623,000 for scoring error repeated over four years that blocked graduation for five students and wrongly lowered scores for 121 others

    2012 Texas – Pearson computer failure blocks thousands of students from taking state-mandated exam by displaying error message at log on

    2013 New York – Passage from Pearson test-prep book appears in Pearson-designed statewide test, giving unfair advantage to students who used those materials

    2013 New York – Pearson scoring error blocks 2,700 students from gifted-and-talented program eligibility

  13. #13
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    Same old, same old

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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    Keep beating that dead horse. It just about over. Most intelligent Americans are onto the new $$$chool reforms.

    You had your way for awhile, teacher bashing and screaming for new school reform for the last ten or so years with fraudulent reformist like Bush, Bloomberg, Obama, Gates, and Zuckerburg looking to get their greedy claws into America's children.

    Its all but over soon. Multiple media outlets reporting how ridiculous charter schools and standardized tests are. How both have miserably failed. How most have agendas of corporate greed. Far too many to post.

    How about just invest in public education instead of taking away from it like charter schools do? Investing in "charter like" schools only adds to the existing problem. It caters ONLY to the "selected" and ignore the neediest. The students who are not chosen are left for the "true" educators to deal with, the public school teachers.

    Bye bye new school reforms, the public is on to you...........

    Stand up for what is good for students, not the billionaires profiting from charter schools and standardized testing.

    Join the movement

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Long-...11021932327048
    "Invest" in public education....love the code words

  15. #15
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    Copernicus, from the articles you posted I see a lot of bias saying that no one should be accountable for results when given money except for Pearson. Anyone that asks for teachers to be held accountable for the billions that the public school system rakes in is wrong but if Pearson makes a mistake and pays penalties then they should still be lambasted. Not much of a double standard there.

    As for school choice I have said in the past that the way it is being done in NJ makes a lot of sense. It moves money and students to the public schools that wish to accept more students and are perceived as a working system. It is a true lottery system at least in the schools I have seen it work in. The town I used to live in was very small and they were able to fill their classrooms and bring in money from 90 out of district kids because they are known as a good system. Same with the school my kids are in now. They brought in about 50 out of district students because the neighboring town's Middle school is one of the worst in the county.

    This gave "poor" kids a chance that they wouldn't have had previously. So the money stays in traditional union owned public schools but moves from the failures to the ones that actually are working. Seems like a win for everyone. It will also send the message to the poor school to get better or you will lose even more money. It also gives involved parents a chance to make an impact on their child's education and takes away excuses since this is what they chose rather than what was forced upon them.

    The only argument I have heard against this is that the poor school will struggle even more to improve since it has even less money now. Such is life. Maybe if they had spent that money wisely they would be receiving students rather than losing them. They had no problem squandering money for decades. Now they get to see the results and can no longer be guaranteed a captive clientele. Welcome to the real world.

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    Is anyone here suprised that Copernicus would prefer that poor children living in the slums be forced to go to failing schools where they need to worry about their personal safety more than studying or graduating. Why would a union kool aid bot pay any attention to the overwhelming and indisputable evidence that Charter schools and school choice in general is literally the only thing that has been proven to positively alter outcomes for the poor. Increased graduation rates and increased rates of students moving on to higher education are not important to the union crony. He only cares about his precious job security and outrageous pension. The proof is in turning a discussion about school choice in to some sort of referendum on standardized testing and teacher evaluations.

    Copernicus, FYI the teacher evaluations are a way that the country is looking at to improve public schools and reduce the need for school choice and charters. You are welcome to present your alternate plans but school choice and charters in particular are already proven successes. We need more of these programs not less. Think of the children.

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    Charter schools are the answer for the poor students of the U.S.? That's hysterical.

    But as Reuters has found, it's not that simple. Thousands of charter schools don't provide subsidized lunches, putting them out of reach for families in poverty. Hundreds mandate that parents spend hours doing "volunteer" work for the school or risk losing their child's seat. In one extreme example the Cambridge Lakes Charter School in Pingree Grove, Illinois, mandates that each student's family invest in the company that built the school - a practice the state said it would investigate after inquiries from Reuters.

    ARRAY OF BARRIERS

    And from New Hampshire to California, charter schools large and small, honored and obscure, have developed complex application processes that can make it tough for students who struggle with disability, limited English skills, academic deficits or chaotic family lives to even get into the lottery.

    Among the barriers that Reuters documented:

    * Applications that are made available just a few hours a year.

    * Lengthy application forms, often printed only in English, that require student and parent essays, report cards, test scores, disciplinary records, teacher recommendations and medical records.

    * Demands that students present Social Security cards and birth certificates for their applications to be considered, even though such documents cannot be required under federal law.

    * Mandatory family interviews.

    * Assessment exams.

    * Academic prerequisites.

    * Requirements that applicants document any disabilities or special needs. The U.S. Department of Education considers this practice illegal on the college level but has not addressed the issue for K-12 schools.

    Many charters, backed by state law, specialize in serving low-income and minority children. Some of the best-known charter networks, such as KIPP, Yes Prep, Green Dot and Success Academy, use simple application forms that ask little more than name, grade and contact information, and actively seek out disadvantaged families. Most for-profit charter school chains also keep applications brief.

    But stand-alone charters, which account for more than half the total in the United States, make up their own admissions policies. Regulations are often vague, oversight is often lax - and principals can get quite creative.

    When Philadelphia officials examined 25 charter schools last spring, they found 18 imposed "significant barriers," including a requirement from one school that students produce a character reference from a religious or community leader.


    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Is anyone here suprised that Copernicus would prefer that poor children living in the slums be forced to go to failing schools where they need to worry about their personal safety more than studying or graduating. Why would a union kool aid bot pay any attention to the overwhelming and indisputable evidence that Charter schools and school choice in general is literally the only thing that has been proven to positively alter outcomes for the poor. Increased graduation rates and increased rates of students moving on to higher education are not important to the union crony. He only cares about his precious job security and outrageous pension. The proof is in turning a discussion about school choice in to some sort of referendum on standardized testing and teacher evaluations.

    Copernicus, FYI the teacher evaluations are a way that the country is looking at to improve public schools and reduce the need for school choice and charters. You are welcome to present your alternate plans but school choice and charters in particular are already proven successes. We need more of these programs not less. Think of the children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Charter schools are the answer for the poor students of the U.S.? That's hysterical.

    But as Reuters has found, it's not that simple. Thousands of charter schools don't provide subsidized lunches, putting them out of reach for families in poverty. Hundreds mandate that parents spend hours doing "volunteer" work for the school or risk losing their child's seat. In one extreme example the Cambridge Lakes Charter School in Pingree Grove, Illinois, mandates that each student's family invest in the company that built the school - a practice the state said it would investigate after inquiries from Reuters.

    ARRAY OF BARRIERS

    And from New Hampshire to California, charter schools large and small, honored and obscure, have developed complex application processes that can make it tough for students who struggle with disability, limited English skills, academic deficits or chaotic family lives to even get into the lottery.

    Among the barriers that Reuters documented:

    * Applications that are made available just a few hours a year.

    * Lengthy application forms, often printed only in English, that require student and parent essays, report cards, test scores, disciplinary records, teacher recommendations and medical records.

    * Demands that students present Social Security cards and birth certificates for their applications to be considered, even though such documents cannot be required under federal law.

    * Mandatory family interviews.

    * Assessment exams.

    * Academic prerequisites.

    * Requirements that applicants document any disabilities or special needs. The U.S. Department of Education considers this practice illegal on the college level but has not addressed the issue for K-12 schools.

    Many charters, backed by state law, specialize in serving low-income and minority children. Some of the best-known charter networks, such as KIPP, Yes Prep, Green Dot and Success Academy, use simple application forms that ask little more than name, grade and contact information, and actively seek out disadvantaged families. Most for-profit charter school chains also keep applications brief.

    But stand-alone charters, which account for more than half the total in the United States, make up their own admissions policies. Regulations are often vague, oversight is often lax - and principals can get quite creative.

    When Philadelphia officials examined 25 charter schools last spring, they found 18 imposed "significant barriers," including a requirement from one school that students produce a character reference from a religious or community leader.
    Your post here is loaded with BS bro. Sorry. New Orleans since Katrina went from a public school model to mostly charters. The graduation rates and higher learning rates have exploded there. They went from one of the worst school systems to one of the best. The charter program in D.C. has been a massive success as well. Again the measurables are off the charts. One of the best parts of the system is that since parents have choice the poor performing ones close due to poor attendance and the better performing ones expand.

    Regarding your post: No free lunches is the problem? Really? Applications in English only is the problem? Is that serious or are they joking with that criticism? Lengthy application forms? Reaching a bit there? That article was examining one particular type of charter school anyway. The success of charter programs is indisputable. Its why when you post some nonsense like that it is meangless to me. It's also why those with an agenda will write such a stupid criticism article. Where does it say in that article that charter programs don't work? Where does it say that the outcomes for students that attend them are not better than outcomes for public school kids? It doesn't. The fact that going to a charter requires an application is a good thing. If a student or their parents can't be bothered to fill out a form they don't care enough to even belong in a charter. Regardless most don't have those difficult requirements anyway it is an article designed to fool the stupid.

  19. #19
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    Nice rant, the article shows that charter schools unless "regulated" are going after certain types of students. Kinda like hospitals who have incredible success rates, well if they know you are going to die that speciality hospital transfers you to another hospital. I'm not against Charter schools but to pretend they are the savior to the school system is a joke, they haven't been around long enough. Please stop with using New Orleans as a successful story, the entire state is an embarrassment when it comes to education.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefst2000 View Post
    Your post here is loaded with BS bro. Sorry. New Orleans since Katrina went from a public school model to mostly charters. The graduation rates and higher learning rates have exploded there. They went from one of the worst school systems to one of the best. The charter program in D.C. has been a massive success as well. Again the measurables are off the charts. One of the best parts of the system is that since parents have choice the poor performing ones close due to poor attendance and the better performing ones expand.

    Regarding your post: No free lunches is the problem? Really? Applications in English only is the problem? Is that serious or are they joking with that criticism? Lengthy application forms? Reaching a bit there? That article was examining one particular type of charter school anyway. The success of charter programs is indisputable. Its why when you post some nonsense like that it is meangless to me. It's also why those with an agenda will write such a stupid criticism article. Where does it say in that article that charter programs don't work? Where does it say that the outcomes for students that attend them are not better than outcomes for public school kids? It doesn't. The fact that going to a charter requires an application is a good thing. If a student or their parents can't be bothered to fill out a form they don't care enough to even belong in a charter. Regardless most don't have those difficult requirements anyway it is an article designed to fool the stupid.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    Nice rant, the article shows that charter schools unless "regulated" are going after certain types of students. Kinda like hospitals who have incredible success rates, well if they know you are going to die that speciality hospital transfers you to another hospital. I'm not against Charter schools but to pretend they are the savior to the school system is a joke, they haven't been around long enough. Please stop with using New Orleans as a successful story, the entire state is an embarrassment when it comes to education.
    Try NYC or Los Angeles or Washington or basically every where it has been tried. School Choice of which charters are a component is the best solution for our schools and children. It is the only thing proven to improve outcomes and therefore opportunity for upward mobility for the poor. The comedy for me here is when liberals, which portray themselves (falsely imo) as the defenders of the poor and underprivileged, fight viciously against one of the only programs which has proven to alter outcomes in a positive way for those groups. It really for me is a great reinforcement of my belief that liberals are full of ****e. Everyone that is against school choice is either a union cronie like Cop or a left wing kool aid drinker that refuses to think for themselves. CR, don't be that guy.

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