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Thread: The problem with this whole QB "thing"

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    No problem at all with this line of thinking, but if we choose Barkley for instance in the 2nd round, he is going to be our QB for 4 years. (Might not start this year). Teams do not draft a Qb this year early and then toss them aside after a year if they do not like what they see. There are a lot of ways to get a QB and the dart board theory is not the best way to do it.

    You can try and get upgrades via trade or draft so if we decided to go with Barkley then you had better be right that he is going to be a really good starter because you will commit to finding out for a number of years, not just one.
    I don't think a 2nd round pick would get 4 years. There is no reason you couldn't take a Barkley in the 2nd round this season, evaluate him, and then still decide to take a QB in the first round next year if you don't like what you see. Nothing wrong with accumulating talent. Hell, some people want us to draft defensive line in the 1st round again, which by my calculations would be 3rd year in a row. For a position not nearly as important as QB.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I don't think a 2nd round pick would get 4 years. There is no reason you couldn't take a Barkley in the 2nd round this season, evaluate him, and then still decide to take a QB in the first round next year if you don't like what you see. Nothing wrong with accumulating talent. Hell, some people want us to draft defensive line in the 1st round again, which by my calculations would be 3rd year in a row. For a position not nearly as important as QB.
    isn't that what carolina did when they took clausen and then drafted newton the following year? nothing wrong with this.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by augustiniak View Post
    isn't that what carolina did when they took clausen and then drafted newton the following year? nothing wrong with this.
    Exactly. And consider that Sanchez, Tebow, and maybe even Garrard are likely to be off the team after this season. So we do need some depth at QB and maybe the guy we take 2nd round surprises and turns into a capable starter.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I don't think a 2nd round pick would get 4 years. There is no reason you couldn't take a Barkley in the 2nd round this season, evaluate him, and then still decide to take a QB in the first round next year if you don't like what you see. Nothing wrong with accumulating talent. Hell, some people want us to draft defensive line in the 1st round again, which by my calculations would be 3rd year in a row. For a position not nearly as important as QB.
    No one does this, no team at all unless there is a regime change. A front office that picks Barkley in the 2nd is not going to pick a Qb in the 1st unless perhaps we got the 1st pick overall, even then I'm not sure.

    Teams that accumulate secondary Qb talent most often already have a solid starter. As for great QB's this year, most of the QB needy teams seem to have done every thing possible to avoid taking on of these guys this year by signing retreads.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    No one does this, no team at all unless there is a regime change. A front office that picks Barkley in the 2nd is not going to pick a Qb in the 1st unless perhaps we got the 1st pick overall, even then I'm not sure.

    Teams that accumulate secondary Qb talent most often already have a solid starter. As for great QB's this year, most of the QB needy teams seem to have done every thing possible to avoid taking on of these guys this year by signing retreads.
    Carolina just did this. And unless we get the #1 pick next year, the odds are that we won't be in position to take the one elite prospect at QB anyway (thought to be Bridgewater). Honestly outside of Bridgewater and Manziel (who will have questions due to size and arm strength), there is nothing about next year's class that is standout or phenomenal. I just don't get the mentality of continuing to spend high draft picks on anything but QB. It's the most important position on the field, to the point where a great one can take a 4-12 team to 12-4 almost singlehandedly. We have people who want to spend two top 15 picks on a guard and a TE, but won't even entertain the notion of taking QB. I don't get this.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Exactly. And consider that Sanchez, Tebow, and maybe even Garrard are likely to be off the team after this season. So we do need some depth at QB and maybe the guy we take 2nd round surprises and turns into a capable starter.
    i believe the jets will take cooper at 8, get the best guard for their new offense, and also BAP, and then look to trade down from 13. ideally idzik would like to trade out of the 9 spot but the lack of elite talent and prohibitive cost makes it unlikely.

    if the jets cannot trade out of 13, i guess they'll take either mingo or jones. if they can deal back it opens it up considerably, and also gives them extra picks to trade up in round 2 for a qb.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Really. We'll our scouting department probably thinks both warmack AND cooper are better than most prospects at 9&13. So are you saying that we should take OG at both spots??? Somebody at the top has to say "I want a QB and I want him in these rounds"... So you're wrong. It still comes down to decision making
    a QB and Guard are two very different things. You must see that.

    We need a QB desperately. If there's one there they like then we should take him.

    I favor the BPA draft strategy except with QB's. They are simply too important - If you see one you like you can't wait.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    We need a QB desperately.
    Not really. We made our bed this year, any QB we take should be no more than a late round developmental guy. Makes more sense to take a shot a blue chip franchise quarterback next year...

    "meh meh meh, maybe they're won't be one..."

    Ya, maybe. But there's certainly not one this year.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    a QB and Guard are two very different things. You must see that.

    We need a QB desperately. If there's one there they like then we should take him.

    I favor the BPA draft strategy except with QB's. They are simply too important - If you see one you like you can't wait.
    Welcome the next Gabbert, or ponder or locker or any other mediocre Qb you can think of to the jets. We have a need, lets just go for it. Meanwhile we pass up on a host of really good starting calibre players. It's not just a matter of taking a flyer on a Qb in the 2nd because we can draft another in a year or two if this guy fails. It is looking at what players you are passing on to do so.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    No one does this, no team at all unless there is a regime change. A front office that picks Barkley in the 2nd is not going to pick a Qb in the 1st unless perhaps we got the 1st pick overall, even then I'm not sure.

    Teams that accumulate secondary Qb talent most often already have a solid starter. As for great QB's this year, most of the QB needy teams seem to have done every thing possible to avoid taking on of these guys this year by signing retreads.
    Wahington used their 1st 2 picks last year. GB took Brohm in the 2nd with Rodgers on the docket. Carolina, Cleveland, Miami, Lions, and WE have done it in the last ten years. Heck the Broncos took Cutler as a late 1st then traded him to draft Tebow. It happens.

  11. #31
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    All these comments remind me of Parcells first draft. We needed a QB in the worst way and decided to go with a stop gap QB. Now he played well but we passed over a Manning. If we take one of these QBs in this draft wisdom says we cannot take one next year. One of these guys could be good. We are sure next years class would be better but look what happened to Barkley. He would have been on the Phins. The same thing happened to Marino. He went back for his senior year and played worse the last year causing him to drop. QB's are a crapshoot. You just cannot be sure. I do think Sanchez is done though and Tebow is not going to be a starting QB in this league anymore.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Welcome the next Gabbert, or ponder or locker or any other mediocre Qb you can think of to the jets. We have a need, lets just go for it. Meanwhile we pass up on a host of really good starting calibre players. It's not just a matter of taking a flyer on a Qb in the 2nd because we can draft another in a year or two if this guy fails. It is looking at what players you are passing on to do so.
    I never said take a flyer on anyone. They should not do that. I said if our scouting department and GM like someone and believe he is a legit NFL QB then we can't and should not pass him up.

    All I'm saying is trust the scouts - don't make a QB decision on what we might be able to get in next years draft or what coaching changes we might make or how the fans and Sanchez will react to him.

    If we like him we should take him.

  13. #33
    the cant miss QB this time last year for this year was barkley..where does he stand now? we have to draft a QB with one of our first 4 picks.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Not really. We made our bed this year, any QB we take should be no more than a late round developmental guy. Makes more sense to take a shot a blue chip franchise quarterback next year...

    "meh meh meh, maybe they're won't be one..."

    Ya, maybe. But there's certainly not one this year.
    The draft hasn't even happened yet, so no, we haven't made our bed. The guy who tried to make our bed (Tannenbaum) with the Sanchez extension has already been removed from his position.

    Using words like "certainty" and NFL Draft together are never a good idea. There will likely be a future top 10 QB that comes out of this draft. The only question is whether or not the Jets will be smart/savvy enough to locate him and draft him.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Welcome the next Gabbert, or ponder or locker or any other mediocre Qb you can think of to the jets. We have a need, lets just go for it. Meanwhile we pass up on a host of really good starting calibre players. It's not just a matter of taking a flyer on a Qb in the 2nd because we can draft another in a year or two if this guy fails. It is looking at what players you are passing on to do so.
    How many really good starting caliber players do you think are coming out of the 2nd round of this draft? You act like any draft prospect at any position other than QB is guaranteed to be a good player. That makes no sense. Every pick represents some manner of risk. But the upside of finding a good QB outweighs anything else.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagr68 View Post
    the cant miss QB this time last year for this year was barkley..where does he stand now? we have to draft a QB with one of our first 4 picks.
    Wrong. We don't have to do anything. Mark and David are starting this year. No one outside of Geno will push them. No one.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by wepnx View Post
    All these comments remind me of Parcells first draft. We needed a QB in the worst way and decided to go with a stop gap QB. Now he played well but we passed over a Manning. If we take one of these QBs in this draft wisdom says we cannot take one next year. One of these guys could be good. We are sure next years class would be better but look what happened to Barkley. He would have been on the Phins. The same thing happened to Marino. He went back for his senior year and played worse the last year causing him to drop. QB's are a crapshoot. You just cannot be sure. I do think Sanchez is done though and Tebow is not going to be a starting QB in this league anymore.

    What? Chuck Clements? When did that happen...BP totally cleaned house after his 1st year. ODonnald and Glenn Foley that 1st year where both canned the next year. We brought Vinny in the same year Manning was drafted 98. We had little to no shot at getting him. Lief maybe but that is a bullet dodged IMO. That would be like us skipping this draft and signing Cutler next year if anything. If anything blame the 1995 draft where we passed on Steve McNair and Kerry Collins for Kyle Brady and Hugh Douglas. Because we had Boomer and Foley. Our GMs of the 80s and early 90s blew.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 04-23-2013 at 01:37 PM.

  18. #38
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    I don't even know why i try. It's the same squad of Jackals- draft! draft! draft! QuuuuuBeee!

    no sense of roster management or longterm viability

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Wrong. We don't have to do anything. Mark and David are starting this year. No one outside of Geno will push them. No one.
    I wonder if Miami fans had the same arguments last year we are now. No we have Henne and Garrard lets suck for Barkley next year. We have Sanchez and Garrard lets just take Barkley or Glennon for the love of god.

  20. #40
    I find this thread incredibly silly.

    We do NOT have a viable QB. The solution to that is not to keep playing him or sign a broken down veteran.

    a rookie cannot play worse than Sanchez. Period.

    All of the top QB candidates have some scouts that think they will be franchise QBs, but all of them see weaknesses that could prevent that from happening. That does not mean, especially with the new salary scale for rookies, that you pass over the opportunity to draft one of these QBs.

    There is no guarantee for next years draft. Everyone thought Barkley would be a Top 5 pick last year. I think the Jets MUST draft QB.

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