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Thread: The problem with this whole QB "thing"

  1. #1
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    The problem with this whole QB "thing"

    Beyond just having issues with the talent level in this draft, there's a pretty strong case to stay the heck away from an early round QB IMO... I think it will only perpetuate the problems we had last year, and potentially stunt the growth of a developmental guy (whom they almost all are).


    --If you assume that ALL these QBs are not day 1 ready (yes, even Geno) at least you can't expect any one of them to be... then we can safely assume that many of them need 1-2 years of grooming, and being thrusted into action say, by week 6 is not going to do Dysert, Bray, Glennon, Scott, Manuel, etc etc any favors.

    --The crowd/media/aliens are all going to frothing at the mouth, waiting for Sanchez to fall on his face. You put a Barkley, Nassib, Manuel, Glennon back there, it's going to be worse than Tebow... cause people actually know the former(s) can throw.

    --The team's probably going to have a 2-5, 3-3 kinda of start at best. I can hear the cat calls already.

    ...Can you not the sh*storm on the horizon? You want to mentally wreck another QB by throwing them in the sharktank that is the 2013 season?

    "...God job Idzik! This Barkley guy sucks!"

    "..Ryan Nassib's worse than Sanchez!"

    "...Manuel can't read a book, let alone a defense!!"


    I really don't think drafting a QB early is an option. It's only going incite controversy the young QB can't win, and set us up for more headaches...

    A developmental guy like Scott, Stanley, maybe Dysert - anything 4th round or lower at least won't have those year 1 expectations on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Beyond just having issues with the talent level in this draft, there's a pretty strong case to stay the heck away from an early round QB IMO... I think it will only perpetuate the problems we had last year, and potentially stunt the growth of a developmental guy (whom they almost all are).


    --If you assume that ALL these QBs are not day 1 ready (yes, even Geno) at least you can't expect any one of them to be... then we can safely assume that many of them need 1-2 years of grooming, and being thrusted into action say, by week 6 is not going to do Dysert, Bray, Glennon, Scott, Manuel, etc etc any favors.

    --The crowd/media/aliens are all going to frothing at the mouth, waiting for Sanchez to fall on his face. You put a Barkley, Nassib, Manuel, Glennon back there, it's going to be worse than Tebow... cause people actually know the former(s) can throw.

    --The team's probably going to have a 2-5, 3-3 kinda of start at best. I can hear the cat calls already.

    ...Can you not the sh*storm on the horizon? You want to mentally wreck another QB by throwing them in the sharktank that is the 2013 season?

    "...God job Idzik! This Barkley guy sucks!"

    "..Ryan Nassib's worse than Sanchez!"

    "...Manuel can't read a book, let alone a defense!!"


    I really don't think drafting a QB early is an option. It's only going incite controversy the young QB can't win, and set us up for more headaches...

    A developmental guy like Scott, Stanley, maybe Dysert - anything 4th round or lower at least won't have those year 1 expectations on them.
    So you perpetually suck?

    Any and every rookie QB is going to have serious growing pains.

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    My issue with the QBs is the thought that. "Qb's are no longer a big financial problem thus you pick one each year until you find a pro bowler."

    It simply doesn't work that way. If we pick a guy with our 1st pick in the 2nd round we are not taking a Qb next year. We are going to give Nassib or Manuel or Barkley a chance over a few years to see if he can do it. Thus we miss out on potentially true good Qb's for a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    My issue with the QBs is the thought that. "Qb's are no longer a big financial problem thus you pick one each year until you find a pro bowler."

    It simply doesn't work that way. If we pick a guy with our 1st pick in the 2nd round we are not taking a Qb next year. We are going to give Nassib or Manuel or Barkley a chance over a few years to see if he can do it. Thus we miss out on potentially true good Qb's for a few years.
    Absolutely. That's always Beene first line of defense against the mob. These guys aren't very good and it makes more sense for us to visit this position next year...

    I wanted to explore some of hazards here or ignoring that overt truth and pulling the trigger anyway (which Tony believes we are)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Beyond just having issues with the talent level in this draft, there's a pretty strong case to stay the heck away from an early round QB IMO... I think it will only perpetuate the problems we had last year, and potentially stunt the growth of a developmental guy (whom they almost all are).


    --If you assume that ALL these QBs are not day 1 ready (yes, even Geno) at least you can't expect any one of them to be... then we can safely assume that many of them need 1-2 years of grooming, and being thrusted into action say, by week 6 is not going to do Dysert, Bray, Glennon, Scott, Manuel, etc etc any favors.

    --The crowd/media/aliens are all going to frothing at the mouth, waiting for Sanchez to fall on his face. You put a Barkley, Nassib, Manuel, Glennon back there, it's going to be worse than Tebow... cause people actually know the former(s) can throw.

    --The team's probably going to have a 2-5, 3-3 kinda of start at best. I can hear the cat calls already.

    ...Can you not the sh*storm on the horizon? You want to mentally wreck another QB by throwing them in the sharktank that is the 2013 season?

    "...God job Idzik! This Barkley guy sucks!"

    "..Ryan Nassib's worse than Sanchez!"

    "...Manuel can't read a book, let alone a defense!!"


    I really don't think drafting a QB early is an option. It's only going incite controversy the young QB can't win, and set us up for more headaches...

    A developmental guy like Scott, Stanley, maybe Dysert - anything 4th round or lower at least won't have those year 1 expectations on them.
    I actually think this is a good position to put a rookie into. If Sanchez starts and falls on his face, the rookie has a very low bar to surpass and will energize the fanbase by coming off the bench and playing better than Sanchez did. A 2-5 start means the season is basically over anyway, so there's less pressure on him to "win now." Some growing pains would be tolerated. Also, Rex's D is likely to be solid again next season and that always benefits a rookie QB. When you can win a game 17-14 rather than 35-31 there is a lot less pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    My issue with the QBs is the thought that. "Qb's are no longer a big financial problem thus you pick one each year until you find a pro bowler."

    It simply doesn't work that way. If we pick a guy with our 1st pick in the 2nd round we are not taking a Qb next year. We are going to give Nassib or Manuel or Barkley a chance over a few years to see if he can do it. Thus we miss out on potentially true good Qb's for a few years.
    But you can say that regarding just about every position, can't you? At some point, you have to rely on your talent evaluators, pick a player you believe in, and cross your fingers and hope that it works out. The Jets are desperate for a QB. I don't see how they can possibly come out of this draft without a QB that they're comfortable with taking the reigns at some point over the next two seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Absolutely. That's always Beene first line of defense against the mob. These guys aren't very good and it makes more sense for us to visit this position next year...

    I wanted to explore some of hazards here or ignoring that overt truth and pulling the trigger anyway (which Tony believes we are)
    There are no guarantees in next year's draft class. And even hypothetically if Bridgewater has a great season and looks like a strong chance to go #1, what are the odds that the Jets will be in position to select him? Not good. After him, there's no guarantee next year's draft class will be any better than this one. You can't build your roster based on future draft classes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I actually think this is a good position to put a rookie into. If Sanchez starts and falls on his face, the rookie has a very low bar to surpass and will energize the fanbase by coming off the bench and playing better than Sanchez did. A 2-5 start means the season is basically over anyway, so there's less pressure on him to "win now." Some growing pains would be tolerated. Also, Rex's D is likely to be solid again next season and that always benefits a rookie QB. When you can win a game 17-14 rather than 35-31 there is a lot less pressure.
    Disagree, terrible situation to be in. It wouldn't be if these guys were any good... But they're not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    My issue with the QBs is the thought that. "Qb's are no longer a big financial problem thus you pick one each year until you find a pro bowler."

    It simply doesn't work that way. If we pick a guy with our 1st pick in the 2nd round we are not taking a Qb next year. We are going to give Nassib or Manuel or Barkley a chance over a few years to see if he can do it. Thus we miss out on potentially true good Qb's for a few years.
    Agreed. I have been saying all along that Idzik is not going to take a QB high in the draft until he is sure about his head coaching situation. Why take a QB high this year when there is no real stand out prospect and you dont even know who the head coach is going to be next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckkieB View Post
    But you can say that regarding just about every position, can't you? At some point, you have to rely on your talent evaluators, pick a player you believe in, and cross your fingers and hope that it works out. The Jets are desperate for a QB. I don't see how they can possibly come out of this draft without a QB that they're comfortable with taking the reigns at some point over the next two seasons.
    +1

    If our scouts and GM like someone and believe he can be a legit NFL QB - then we should absolutely take him.

    Can't trust your scouting department - then get a new one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    +1

    If our scouts and GM like someone and believe he can be a legit NFL QB - then we should absolutely take him.

    Can't trust your scouting department - then get a new one.
    Really. We'll our scouting department probably thinks both warmack AND cooper are better than most prospects at 9&13. So are you saying that we should take OG at both spots??? Somebody at the top has to say "I want a QB and I want him in these rounds"... So you're wrong. It still comes down to decision making

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckkieB View Post
    But you can say that regarding just about every position, can't you? At some point, you have to rely on your talent evaluators, pick a player you believe in, and cross your fingers and hope that it works out. The Jets are desperate for a QB. I don't see how they can possibly come out of this draft without a QB that they're comfortable with taking the reigns at some point over the next two seasons.
    I agree and that is what it is about, does our talent evaluator say that one of these Qb's is truly going to be a 10 year good starter? If so, fine pull the trigger. If we look at these guys and they are a bunch of gabbert, ponder, lockers why pick one at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    +1

    If our scouts and GM like someone and believe he can be a legit NFL QB - then we should absolutely take him.

    Can't trust your scouting department - then get a new one.
    This. For all the talk of waiting till next years class no one has any clue about what is going to be in next years class if anything. If your scouts say a guy here is worth a late 1st 2nd rounder you trust what they are saying and take one. Not one of next years SRs make me say wow he is going to be great. As far as waiting for Bridgewater or what ever flavor of the month is down the road that is just as much a gamble. Why burn a year for just what is just anther question mark right now. Something like 80% of 1st round draft picks never live up to their hype. I dont care what position it is. You go for what can improve you the most and in our case any of these QBs would at least bring hope and be an instant improvement over Mark and Tebow. Everyone knows they cant play what are you holding out for? Do you really think Mark or Tebow drives us to the POs? lol Even if they have average #s what then do you give them ANTHER year? Like SF did with that bust Smith.
    Last edited by Dreamers; 04-23-2013 at 12:13 PM.

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    We will be taking a qb with the #1 overall pick in the draft next year. This year is not the year we will be looking for a franchise qb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    This. For all the talk of waiting till next years class no one has any clue about what is going to be in next years class if anything. If your scouts say a guy here is worth a late 1st 2nd rounder you trust what they are saying and take one. Not one of next years SRs make me say wow he is going to be great. As far as waiting for Bridgewater or what ever flavor of the month is down the road that is just as much a gamble. Why burn a year for just what is just anther question mark right now. Something like 80% of 1st round draft picks never live up to their hype. I dont care what position it is. You go for what can improve you the most and in our case any of these QBs would at least bring hope and be an instant improvement over Mark and Tebow. Everyone knows they cant play what are you holding out for? Do you really think one of those guys drives us to the POs? lol
    No problem at all with this line of thinking, but if we choose Barkley for instance in the 2nd round, he is going to be our QB for 4 years. (Might not start this year). Teams do not draft a Qb this year early and then toss them aside after a year if they do not like what they see. There are a lot of ways to get a QB and the dart board theory is not the best way to do it.

    You can try and get upgrades via trade or draft so if we decided to go with Barkley then you had better be right that he is going to be a really good starter because you will commit to finding out for a number of years, not just one.

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    Churn and Burn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    This. For all the talk of waiting till next years class no one has any clue about what is going to be in next years class if anything. If your scouts say a guy here is worth a late 1st 2nd rounder you trust what they are saying and take one. Not one of next years SRs make me say wow he is going to be great. As far as waiting for Bridgewater or what ever flavor of the month is down the road that is just as much a gamble. Why burn a year for just what is just anther question mark right now. Something like 80% of 1st round draft picks never live up to their hype. I dont care what position it is. You go for what can improve you the most and in our case any of these QBs would at least bring hope and be an instant improvement over Mark and Tebow. Everyone knows they cant play what are you holding out for? Do you really think Mark or Tebow drives us to the POs? lol Even if they have average #s what then do you give them ANTHER year? Like SF did with that bust Smith.
    this totalyy disregards the fact that these guys are substandard this year. instead of having a handful of mid-round projects, we have a whole draft full of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    No problem at all with this line of thinking, but if we choose Barkley for instance in the 2nd round, he is going to be our QB for 4 years. (Might not start this year). Teams do not draft a Qb this year early and then toss them aside after a year if they do not like what they see. There are a lot of ways to get a QB and the dart board theory is not the best way to do it.

    You can try and get upgrades via trade or draft so if we decided to go with Barkley then you had better be right that he is going to be a really good starter because you will commit to finding out for a number of years, not just one.
    I dont see a 2nd rounder as a long term commitment. Under the new rookie cap he gets 3 years then we have to make a choice. In the mean time if a stud QB is there you take him. Yeah you dont take Boyd next year if you take Barkley but if we do go 3-13 and you truly believe Bridgewater is a franchise guy there is no reason not to take him. There are a ton of teams that burn a pick on QBs some of them have worked out well. People though Washington was crazy when they took Cousins. You need a good BU too. If you get that with a 2nd that is worth it by league standards. You dont take the next Mike Vick or RG3 without having a BU plan. There are very few 1st time starters that teams put all there eggs in that basket. GB had Rodgers for how long and they drafted Brohn with a 2nd rounder his 1st year starting? That is prudent planning. Again if he is a stud great if not you still have value in that 2nd round pick if he can be a BU or even a trade piece. It isnt just boom or bust with a late 1st-2nd rounder. You dont have to commit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    this totalyy disregards the fact that these guys are substandard this year. instead of having a handful of mid-round projects, we have a whole draft full of them.
    Substandard compared to what? Other 1st rounder over the last ten years? Or other 2nd rounders in this case? No sorry they arent. No one can seriously say guys like Locker, Gabbert, Sanchez, Ponder, Freeman, Russel, or Flacco for that matter where any better then the best guys here. So substandard to what? Luck sure. Your not getting that in this next or like the next 5 years. So again what are you waiting for?

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    And for the obvious Flacco your crazy. I was big on wanting Flacco in that draft and people said he wasnt worth a 1st rounder. That he was just a big goof that wouldnt make in the NFL.

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