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Thread: "Trader Tanny" Vs "Value Pick Idzik"...

  1. #1

    "Trader Tanny" Vs "Value Pick Idzik"...

    What a contrast in styles!

    Tannenbaum would trade almost half a draft going for the home-run, ala Harris, Revis, but would also strike out, ala Sanchez, and to a lesser degree Wilson, Greene.
    But he also would burn picks: "Rex Picks" (John Conner the "Terminator"), "Sanchez Picks" (Scotty McKnight, HS bud), "Alma Mater Picks" (Vlad Ducasse, Tanny U Mass alum), etc.

    Idzik, on the other hand, guards each pick like a precious commodity. No trading up, no gambling, no reaches. Goes for value: picking prospects at or below where they were projected to go. Settles for the solid base-hit, limits strike-outs, doesn't give up any at-bats. But may score more in the long run especially if value picks pay off big (Geno Smith, a franchise QB picked at a great value position, mid 2nd round).

    Completely different styles...
    Which is better in the long run?
    Hmmm...

  2. #2
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    Only thing Idzik needs to get better with is negotiating trades, and moving up and down in the draft

    Thought we should have got 1 more pick in the Revis deal, and a 5th, rather than a 4th in the Ivory deal

    Never showed he could deal up or down in the draft

    It's a learning process, I'm sure

  3. #3
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    if you look back at the Tanny drafts it's amazing how poor they've ended up being - and many of the good picks involved giving up other picks to move up.

    Tanny moved up to GM just before the 2006 draft - which was a good draft but I question his true level of input. His other drafts:

    2007

    Revis
    Harris

    Bender - late round
    Stuckey - late round

    2008

    Gholston
    Keller
    Lowery

    Ainge
    Henry
    Garner

    2009
    Sanchez
    Greene
    Slauson


    2010
    Kyle Wilson
    Ducasse
    McKnight
    Conner

    2011
    Wilkerson
    Ellis
    Powell
    Kerley

    McElroy
    McKnight

    2012

    Coples
    Hill
    Davis

    Bush
    Griffin
    Ganaway
    Allen
    White

    17 actual NFL-grade players in last six drafts; 7 who might start on an average team in the league. That's pathetic . . .

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JonEJet View Post
    Only thing Idzik needs to get better with is negotiating trades, and moving up and down in the draft

    Thought we should have got 1 more pick in the Revis deal, and a 5th, rather than a 4th in the Ivory deal

    Never showed he could deal up or down in the draft

    It's a learning process, I'm sure

    I think it was on the NFL Network radio station that they were saying how it's a learning process for new GMs and that the veteran GMs usually school the new guys. They also said it takes time to learn when to wait for your guy versus when to move up and down.

  5. #5
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    One thing to bear in mind is that the FO perceived - rightly or wrongly - that we were set for a run, and needed a few "missing pieces" to be complete. They got close - just not close enough - but couldn't sustain it as they were all-in on a win-now mode.

    Idzik has inherited a team that is at the opposite end of the spectrum - no-one's saying rebuild, but there is such a lack of talent across numerous positions that no-one would call us a win-now team. So the approach fits the situation.

    A truly good GM should be able to adapt their style to suit the situation - we'll see over time how Idzik is made. So far I'm happy with the outcome as it fits the situation, but I'm not going to anoint Idzik as a genius / saviour, he's done what he needed to do, and we won't be able to judge the results for a while. If Geno becomes our franchise QB, he'll look like a genius.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYRAGE View Post
    I think it was on the NFL Network radio station that they were saying how it's a learning process for new GMs and that the veteran GMs usually school the new guys. They also said it takes time to learn when to wait for your guy versus when to move up and down.
    Im betting he got all he could and that this draft was somewhat unique for its lack of real playmakers.

    Why would anyone trade up??? For Austin?

    After that.... jeez NO ONE thought Warmack would be on the board at 9.

    Idzik did just fine IMO.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by adpz View Post
    if you look back at the Tanny drafts it's amazing how poor they've ended up being - and many of the good picks involved giving up other picks to move up.

    Tanny moved up to GM just before the 2006 draft - which was a good draft but I question his true level of input. His other drafts:

    2007

    Revis
    Harris

    Bender - late round
    Stuckey - late round

    2008

    Gholston
    Keller
    Lowery

    Ainge
    Henry
    Garner

    2009
    Sanchez
    Greene
    Slauson


    2010
    Kyle Wilson
    Ducasse
    McKnight
    Conner

    2011
    Wilkerson
    Ellis
    Powell
    Kerley

    McElroy
    McKnight

    2012

    Coples
    Hill
    Davis

    Bush
    Griffin
    Ganaway
    Allen
    White

    17 actual NFL-grade players in last six drafts; 7 who might start on an average team in the league. That's pathetic . . .
    Sorry why would you leave out the 2006 draft?

    Also it's only fair you factor in the guys we acquired in those trades.So for instance Cro was a 2nd round pick in 2011...Jenkins a 2nd and 5th in 2008
    Last edited by Redlichtie; 04-28-2013 at 06:32 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jetswinbaby! View Post
    What a contrast in styles!

    Tannenbaum would trade almost half a draft going for the home-run, ala Harris, Revis, but would also strike out, ala Sanchez, and to a lesser degree Wilson, Greene.
    But he also would burn picks: "Rex Picks" (John Conner the "Terminator"), "Sanchez Picks" (Scotty McKnight, HS bud), "Alma Mater Picks" (Vlad Ducasse, Tanny U Mass alum), etc.

    Idzik, on the other hand, guards each pick like a precious commodity. No trading up, no gambling, no reaches. Goes for value: picking prospects at or below where they were projected to go. Settles for the solid base-hit, limits strike-outs, doesn't give up any at-bats. But may score more in the long run especially if value picks pay off big (Geno Smith, a franchise QB picked at a great value position, mid 2nd round).

    Completely different styles...
    Which is better in the long run?
    Hmmm...

    Not complaining about Idzik although I really wanted Jordan or Austin.I find the attitude he brought refreshing:covet those draft picks.

    Don't want to return to the old days in the 80's when we never traded up but still reached for guys way above where they should've been drafted.We were never boring under Tanny and he drafted well....where he fell down was that he had to hit home runs on every pick because he had so few

  9. #9
    The same fans who are in love with Idzik are the same ones who fell in love with Tannenbaum when Terry Bradway was fired as GM. Jets haven't played a single game yet with Idzik's 'team'.

  10. #10
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    I noticed the same thing...every player either filled a need or provided depth....the steal could be the fullback from wake forest.




    Quote Originally Posted by jetswinbaby! View Post
    What a contrast in styles!

    Tannenbaum would trade almost half a draft going for the home-run, ala Harris, Revis, but would also strike out, ala Sanchez, and to a lesser degree Wilson, Greene.
    But he also would burn picks: "Rex Picks" (John Conner the "Terminator"), "Sanchez Picks" (Scotty McKnight, HS bud), "Alma Mater Picks" (Vlad Ducasse, Tanny U Mass alum), etc.

    Idzik, on the other hand, guards each pick like a precious commodity. No trading up, no gambling, no reaches. Goes for value: picking prospects at or below where they were projected to go. Settles for the solid base-hit, limits strike-outs, doesn't give up any at-bats. But may score more in the long run especially if value picks pay off big (Geno Smith, a franchise QB picked at a great value position, mid 2nd round).

    Completely different styles...
    Which is better in the long run?
    Hmmm...

  11. #11
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    jets did not need to move up in the 2013 and how do you know he does not know how to move up.....the saints also wanted a 2nd round pick at first. We gave up a 4th......there was not one RB taken in the 4th round that was better than ivory...Idzik is as intelligent as he is schrewed. Bodes well for the Jets.


    Quote Originally Posted by JonEJet View Post
    Only thing Idzik needs to get better with is negotiating trades, and moving up and down in the draft

    Thought we should have got 1 more pick in the Revis deal, and a 5th, rather than a 4th in the Ivory deal

    Never showed he could deal up or down in the draft

    It's a learning process, I'm sure

  12. #12
    It is just one draft for Idzik. Let's see several more before we decide on things here.

    He did a good job with his first draft on paper, let's just hope it pans out well.

  13. #13
    Before everyone goes crazy go back to Tanny's first draft in 2006..He picked 10 players...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_York_Jets_season

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Before everyone goes crazy go back to Tanny's first draft in 2006..He picked 10 players...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_York_Jets_season
    And it was a great draft... Maybe if he kept picks he'd still be the GM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by adpz View Post
    if you look back at the Tanny drafts it's amazing how poor they've ended up being - and many of the good picks involved giving up other picks to move up.

    Tanny moved up to GM just before the 2006 draft - which was a good draft but I question his true level of input. His other drafts:

    2007

    Revis
    Harris

    Bender - late round
    Stuckey - late round

    2008

    Gholston
    Keller
    Lowery

    Ainge
    Henry
    Garner

    2009
    Sanchez
    Greene
    Slauson


    2010
    Kyle Wilson
    Ducasse
    McKnight
    Conner

    2011
    Wilkerson
    Ellis
    Powell
    Kerley

    McElroy
    McKnight

    2012

    Coples
    Hill
    Davis

    Bush
    Griffin
    Ganaway
    Allen
    White

    17 actual NFL-grade players in last six drafts; 7 who might start on an average team in the league. That's pathetic . . .
    Wouldn't the same apply to Idzik? They both became GM about the same time?

  16. #16
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    The bottom line is always the selection.

    Being a "Trader Mike" wasn't a bad thing. It looked great when he traded up for Revis and Harris.

    It was also a good move when he traded back, got an extra 2nd and traded for Thomas Jones. That extra pick turned out to be Clemens, which was a bad pick and thus highlights the issue. If a team trades, then the talent evaluation better be spot on.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterxman View Post
    And it was a great draft... Maybe if he kept picks he'd still be the GM.
    He also used picks to acquire Revis and Harris in 2007. Sanchez, Greene (at the urging of Clinkscales/Bradway) in the '09 draft..Braylon in 2009 ('10 draft)..Holmes ('10 draft), McKnight ('10 draft)..Cro ('11 draft)...Hill & Tebow ('12 draft)

    And we all know the Tebow trade was a disaster..

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    The bottom line is always the selection.

    Being a "Trader Mike" wasn't a bad thing. It looked great when he traded up for Revis and Harris.

    It was also a good move when he traded back, got an extra 2nd and traded for Thomas Jones. That extra pick turned out to be Clemens, which was a bad pick and thus highlights the issue. If a team trades, then the talent evaluation better be spot on.
    As well as coaching and development no matter if a player is drafted or acquired via trade/FA.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Before everyone goes crazy go back to Tanny's first draft in 2006..He picked 10 players...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_York_Jets_season
    Mangini

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Wouldn't the same apply to Idzik? They both became GM about the same time?
    trading picks is smart. Only rounds 1-3 and to a lesser extent round 4 matter. The problem isn't trading away the useless 5-7 picks its not missing on the important picks.


    There are just as many "stat" 4rth round picks as udfa picks. Tanny's problem wasn't trading picks it was wiffing on picks. And bad contracts ala Holmes and pace.

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