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Thread: Izdik has arrived

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    You can't draw that conclusion so quickly. Tanny had a great first draft, he just got progressively worse as time wore on.

    And really all right now is is a belief that he did well based on draft pundits have to say. 3 seasons from now will tell the truth about this draft.

    I'll admit, it certainly looks good right now, but that is a common thing for most teams fans after the draft.
    I 'm pretty sure I can draw any conclusion I like. Lol. Seriously though, tanny's first draft was 'aggressive', not anything like this. And if you don't believe in Izdik after this, just give it some time.

    I just consider myself ahead of the curve. You don't come into a 'circus' like this and stay completely composed throughout unless you know what you're doing.

    Again, this is not a judge of the draft, it's a judgement on the way it was conducted. That's why the only criticism out there is who 'they' would have picked, or traded down for. Not an actual problem with the players them self.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by One Eye View Post
    Lost in the tainted perspective of media pundits and long suffering jet fans is the fact that we can all say now that Izdik is a solid, if not great, GM.

    First, he maneuvered masterfully to get good value for Revis with NO perceived leverage.

    Then he signs quality free agents for low $ and refuses to over pay any of our own free agents regardless of need.

    Finally, the draft. Whether or not these players pan out, here's what we know...

    Izdik stuck to his board regardless of need or media pressure. He was patient and picked great value each round. Nothing splashy, except Smith, and that was too good to be true. He never reached.

    We desperately needed day one contributors. Out of this draft, we got a whopping 4 definite day one contributors (dee, Richardson, winters, Ivory), possibly 5 if Geno starts. Not too mention picking up some solid TE,S, and WR UDFAs to add to a solid draft.

    We certainly gained o line & d line (big fatty) depth, a rb rotation for the next few years, a solid group of QBs, & two defensive building blocks to go with Mo & Coples.

    One other thought: I think Sanchez will be the day one starter and that might be the best thing for everyone. Geno gets to learn. Sanchez rebuilds his rep & trade value, and we may get something for him at the end of the year too.

    Love the idealism, but disagree with many of the conclusions.

    Thought Idzik was under considerable pressure to trade Revis and did not receive fair value.

    Sanchez and Garrard are proven and unworthy. Smith is unproven.

    Ivory has to prove he can play a full schedule before anyone gets comfortable with a RB rotation.

    What free agents of note have they signed?

    Starting Sanchez next season will be a PR mess. The fan base will go ballistic and the media will have a field day

    Jury is still out and it may remain out for a few years.

  3. #43
    I agree with One Eye. I also admit to some fascination that the positing of optimistic points of view on this board so frequently results in the dogs being let loose.

    Last year at this time we were listening to bad jokes about how Rex let Tannenbaum have the second round for offense, and everybody chuckled. Florham Park isn't doing any comedy routines this year, even though the first round went to defense. That's my interpretation of what One Eye is talking about. And I don't have to wait three years to conclude that I like the change.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by One Eye View Post
    I 'm pretty sure I can draw any conclusion I like. Lol. Seriously though, tanny's first draft was 'aggressive', not anything like this. And if you don't believe in Izdik after this, just give it some time.

    I just consider myself ahead of the curve. You don't come into a 'circus' like this and stay completely composed throughout unless you know what you're doing.

    Again, this is not a judge of the draft, it's a judgement on the way it was conducted. That's why the only criticism out there is who 'they' would have picked, or traded down for. Not an actual problem with the players them self.
    Tanny's first draft was very similar in several ways...

    Traded our top defensive player for a pick (Abraham-Revis)
    Invested in the front lines (front 7 and OL)
    Picked a QB in the second

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Eye View Post
    I 'm pretty sure I can draw any conclusion I like. Lol. Seriously though, tanny's first draft was 'aggressive'not anything like this. And if you don't believe in Izdik after this, just give it some time.

    I just consider myself ahead of the curve. You don't come into a 'circus' like this and stay completely composed throughout unless you know what you're doing.

    Again, this is not a judge of the draft, it's a judgement on the way it was conducted. That's why the only criticism out there is who 'they' would have picked, or traded down for. Not an actual problem with the players them self.

    He drafted two defensive linemen, that's about as safe as you you can get, not aggressive at all

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mart View Post
    Guilty as charged
    We all were... Realistically this draft , without any helmets on, is better than most and is solid.


    Players chosen are all less project type and appear to be more ready to play.

    I like it.


    Let's keep Vlad on the roster to remind us what a reach looks like.

  7. #47
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    A definite upgrade over Tanny-puss

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    So, to re-cap:

    You can grade a GM without worrying about how the drafted players actually turn out. (Draft nerdism as its worst.)

    And some how....you know the future...4 DAY ONE starters.

    Good LOLz.
    It's easy. With the talent, or should I say lack of talent that we have on our roster and the number of holes in it, we'll have at least 4 day 1 starters.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzsaw View Post
    He drafted two defensive linemen, that's about as safe as you you can get, not aggressive at all
    Correct. im sorry, i thought the Revis draft was his first. I forgot he took Mangold and Dbrick the year before.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMo View Post
    Tanny's first draft was very similar in several ways...

    Traded our top defensive player for a pick (Abraham-Revis)
    Invested in the front lines (front 7 and OL)
    Picked a QB in the second
    I thought the same thing, but Tanny's first draft was 2006, Dbrick / Mangold. That was the year after.

    One thing with Tanny though, is his drafting style certainly became more aggressive when Rex arrived, which leads me to conclude maybe Mangini had a big say before Rex got here and became so.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullitt929 View Post
    I agree with One Eye. I also admit to some fascination that the positing of optimistic points of view on this board so frequently results in the dogs being let loose.

    Last year at this time we were listening to bad jokes about how Rex let Tannenbaum have the second round for offense, and everybody chuckled. Florham Park isn't doing any comedy routines this year, even though the first round went to defense. That's my interpretation of what One Eye is talking about. And I don't have to wait three years to conclude that I like the change.
    Quote Originally Posted by We need Sherman Plunkett View Post
    Love the idealism, but disagree with many of the conclusions.

    Thought Idzik was under considerable pressure to trade Revis and did not receive fair value.

    Sanchez and Garrard are proven and unworthy. Smith is unproven.

    Ivory has to prove he can play a full schedule before anyone gets comfortable with a RB rotation.

    What free agents of note have they signed?

    Starting Sanchez next season will be a PR mess. The fan base will go ballistic and the media will have a field day

    Jury is still out and it may remain out for a few years.
    I would not label this as idealism.

    You don't trade your best player with no leverage coming off a ACL tear for a top 15 pick in the draft and an additional pick next year. Fair value is a stupid thing b/c you cant get 'fair value' when a player wants to be paid so high, only one team in the league can afford him. It's not just about his play on the field. His value includes his cap hit as well.

    Right on with the QBs, but i would say we have a 10x better group of QBs then last year.

    Ivory is a beast. Injuries happen. We gave up a 3rd day pick. I'm certainly comfortable with that level of risk. Ivory is not going to be asked to be the bell cow. He just has to fit into the mix.

    FA of note: Mike Goodson, Dawan Landry, Willie Colon - all projected starters / contributors for a paltry sum.

    Who cares about a PR mess. The Jets are a PR mess regardless. Start the best player. I believe that's Sanchez THIS YEAR. Give Geno time to learn, unless he really proves he can do it now. But without the weapons, and the restrictions b/c of dead $, what's the rush to throw Geno to the wolves. Let Sanchez earn his spot, his $, and possibly even build trade value.

    The Jury is out on the players, not the GM. I don't know why no one gets this. If all of these players bust, it still does not matter. If the FAs are bad, and the draft players all turn out as busts, all we have lost is the season. The Jets are being built where they don't rely on optimism anymore.

    I expect there will be no contracts that handcuff the team anymore. Izdik has made a ton of moves, all which can be judged later on, but he has not made any moves that endanger the future of the team. No bad contracts to players who must prove they are worth it.

    That's why he is a good GM. He has ultimate flexibility, and is putting together quite a good roster in comparison to what looked possible a few months ago.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Eye View Post

    The Jury is out on the players, not the GM. I don't know why no one gets this. If all of these players bust, it still does not matter. If the FAs are bad, and the draft players all turn out as busts, all we have lost is the season. The Jets are being built where they don't rely on optimism anymore.
    This is just so illogical and wrong I don't even know where to begin bashing it.

    If all of the players the GM signs and drafts this year are busts, this franchise won't recover for several years.

    A GM is only as good as the players he acquires.

    Results, not the process, are what really matter.

    I don't know why you are not getting this.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    I do agree that the best attribute Idzik has shown is having a plan and philosophy as to how he wants to build this team. I think having that philosophy is what this team needed the most. Now we will see how well he executes his plan and philosophy.
    He's been good at being stingy and regimented. I couldn't be happier.

    I will be interested to see how he goes about spending $40 to $ $50 million in cap space next year - totally different animal

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    He's been good at being stingy and regimented. I couldn't be happier.

    I will be interested to see how he goes about spending $40 to $ $50 million in cap space next year - totally different animal
    This is a very good point. Obviously we can't get anywhere close to a realistic evaluation of Idzik based on his 1st draft and FA period. Plus this year he was horribly constrained by the cap stranglehold that Tanny left behind and Woody's orders to trade Revis for whatever the best offer was. I also believe that Woody was a key player in the acquisition of Smith.

    Next year we get to see the whole package. Free of the extreme cap constraints of 2013, $40 million, give-or-take, of cap freedom (See Tampa Bay this year), Sanchez gone, perhaps Rex gone too. We'll get a somewhat clearer picture of Idzik.

    It takes several years to provide an appraisal of a GM instead of a quick read-and-react that's going on now.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    He's been good at being stingy and regimented. I couldn't be happier.

    I will be interested to see how he goes about spending $40 to $ $50 million in cap space next year - totally different animal
    My guess is that he doesnt go after big money FAs, but rather sign a bunch of guys who are just below that tier. I have no idea who is going to be a FA next year, so its a total guess.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Eye View Post
    I would not label this as idealism.

    You don't trade your best player with no leverage coming off a ACL tear for a top 15 pick in the draft and an additional pick next year. Fair value is a stupid thing b/c you cant get 'fair value' when a player wants to be paid so high, only one team in the league can afford him. It's not just about his play on the field. His value includes his cap hit as well.

    Right on with the QBs, but i would say we have a 10x better group of QBs then last year.

    Ivory is a beast. Injuries happen. We gave up a 3rd day pick. I'm certainly comfortable with that level of risk. Ivory is not going to be asked to be the bell cow. He just has to fit into the mix.

    FA of note: Mike Goodson, Dawan Landry, Willie Colon - all projected starters / contributors for a paltry sum.

    Who cares about a PR mess. The Jets are a PR mess regardless. Start the best player. I believe that's Sanchez THIS YEAR. Give Geno time to learn, unless he really proves he can do it now. But without the weapons, and the restrictions b/c of dead $, what's the rush to throw Geno to the wolves. Let Sanchez earn his spot, his $, and possibly even build trade value.

    The Jury is out on the players, not the GM. I don't know why no one gets this. If all of these players bust, it still does not matter. If the FAs are bad, and the draft players all turn out as busts, all we have lost is the season. The Jets are being built where they don't rely on optimism anymore.

    I expect there will be no contracts that handcuff the team anymore. Izdik has made a ton of moves, all which can be judged later on, but he has not made any moves that endanger the future of the team. No bad contracts to players who must prove they are worth it.

    That's why he is a good GM. He has ultimate flexibility, and is putting together quite a good roster in comparison to what looked possible a few months ago.
    I understand what you're saying but what everyone is trying that I think you're missing is - its part of the GM's job to judge and evaluate talent.

    Yes, having a plan, sticking to that plan, making sound fiscal decisions are part of the job as well - and yes, he seems to very much on the right track there.

    But you can't discount this other part of the job - judging long term talent is a skill and some are better at it then others.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    My guess is that he doesnt go after big money FAs, but rather sign a bunch of guys who are just below that tier. I have no idea who is going to be a FA next year, so its a total guess.
    That would be my hope. Based on what we've seen of him so far, he'll pay the player his value, nothing more. There will be no Mario Williams signings.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMikeIsHot View Post
    This is just so illogical and wrong I don't even know where to begin bashing it.

    If all of the players the GM signs and drafts this year are busts, this franchise won't recover for several years.

    A GM is only as good as the players he acquires.

    Results, not the process, are what really matter.

    I don't know why you are not getting this.
    This is what draft nerdism has produced. Along the lines of fantasy nerdism.

    Draft nerds grade drafts based on numbers created by other nerds.

    Winng football game really doesn't matter anymore.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelioion View Post
    I understand what you're saying but what everyone is trying that I think you're missing is - its part of the GM's job to judge and evaluate talent.

    Yes, having a plan, sticking to that plan, making sound fiscal decisions are part of the job as well - and yes, he seems to very much on the right track there.

    But you can't discount this other part of the job - judging long term talent is a skill and some are better at it then others.
    So let me get this straight. If Chris Ivory comes in, starts a few games, then gets hurt for the season, Izdik is a bad GM?

    But if he sticks with his 4th round pick and picks somebody who doesn't make the team, that was better?

    Of course you judge the process. Nobody has perfect drafts. New England's drafts suck year after year and they have signed some bad free agents. But the point is their process to field a winning team works, so none of that matters.

    If the players don't work out, they are not tied to them, so they just move on.

    That is what most of the people criticizing my perspective are not getting. It don't matter if the players work out or not. If they don't, we can easily move on. Izdik used the same scouting department that Bradway and Tanny used before him. They are a pretty good scouting department, talent wise. Bradway raved about Wilson last year, and Kaepernick the year before.

    What has changed is the way the Jets handle business. That is why the GM can be evaluated and you are already starting to see articles praising him.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Eye View Post
    So let me get this straight. If Chris Ivory comes in, starts a few games, then gets hurt for the season, Izdik is a bad GM?

    But if he sticks with his 4th round pick and picks somebody who doesn't make the team, that was better?

    Of course you judge the process. Nobody has perfect drafts. New England's drafts suck year after year and they have signed some bad free agents. But the point is their process to field a winning team works, so none of that matters.

    If the players don't work out, they are not tied to them, so they just move on.

    That is what most of the people criticizing my perspective are not getting. It don't matter if the players work out or not. If they don't, we can easily move on. Izdik used the same scouting department that Bradway and Tanny used before him. They are a pretty good scouting department, talent wise. Bradway raved about Wilson last year, and Kaepernick the year before.

    What has changed is the way the Jets handle business. That is why the GM can be evaluated and you are already starting to see articles praising him.
    I get what you are saying. When you evaluate a draft, there is actually two evaluations you make. One, right after the draft where you critique the picks and where they were drafted. You evaluate if it was a good pick at that particular spot in the draft, given who was still available. Then there is the second evaluation a couple years later when you see what the players actually do on the field. You can actually make what is a good pick at the time of the draft, but that player can end up not developing into what he was drafted to do.

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