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Thread: "No Jets QB Can Succeed, Because the Jets Offense Has No Talent"

  1. #1

    "No Jets QB Can Succeed, Because the Jets Offense Has No Talent"

    The thread title is something we've all heard this offseason, often multiple times. Mike & Mike on ESPN both reiterated it (in different words) yet again this morning, in their post-Tebow Musings.

    The question I'd like to ask......is this really true for 2013?

    Does the 2013 Jets Offense REALLY have "no talent" around whomever wins the QB competition?

    Let me lay out one possible (likely I'd say) Jets starting Offense.

    QB: Competition

    RB #1: Chris Ivory
    RB #2: Mike Goodson
    RB #3: Bilal Powell
    FB/HB: Lex Hilliard/Tommy Bohanon

    KR/PR: Joe McKnight

    WR #1: Santonio Holmes
    WR #2: Braylon Edwards (Not Signed Currently)
    WR #3: Stephen Hill
    WR #4: Jeremy Kerley
    WR #5: Joe McKnight Perhaps in the new system?

    TE #1: Jeff Cumberland
    TE #2: Unknown, Maybe the Aussie Hayden Smith

    OT: D'Brickishaw Furgeson
    OG: Willie Colon/Oday Aboushi
    OC: Nick Mangold
    OG: Brian Winters/Vlad Ducasse
    OT: Austin Howard
    When I look at this group, I don't see "no talent". I see alot of unknowns, but I don't see "no talent".

    Is this a bonifide Super Bowl quality unit? No, of course not.

    But can this unit, exempting the QB position, compete in the NFL and be competative vs. other teams Offenseive personel? Yes, I think it can.

    I, for one, am getting tired of having the "other 10 guys" derided and abused as talentless suckbags, when the truth is, it all starts and ends with play at the QB position.

  2. #2
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    seriously


    pay no attention to what the Mike and Mikes and the rest of the media buffoons say about anything. Do as I did, turn off sports talk radio and leave it off

    QB was the major problem the last two seasons with the 52 turnover suck machine at that position. David Garrard will finally be a competent and efficient player occupying that position and he will make the other 10 players on offense better. Greg McElroy will be an adequate backup and Geno Smith a more than adequate developmental QB who should be ready to step in in 2014 or 2015 when he is ready having been mentored by Garrard

  3. #3
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    The media "narrative" won't change because its too easy to get laughs
    on their shows. You are correct in your analysis don't worry what the
    media has to say remember what took place in 2005 & 2006. The
    circumstances were very similar to this year and the team went from 4-12
    to 10-6 and a playoff berth

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Arctor View Post
    I, for one, am getting tired of having the "other 10 guys" derided and abused as talentless suckbags, when the truth is, it all starts and ends with play at the QB position.
    Its the offseason. On paper, the Jets have a terrible O right now b/c:

    NO proven QB
    NO proven playmakers except Santonio coming off a bad injury and Kerley, a former fifth round pick, and two talented but un-proven RBs.
    NO TE threat, although apparently no one could cover Hayden Smith by the end of last year. Not sure if that's good for him, or just a knock on our LBs.

    We just have to hope multiple players step up (Hill, kerley, smith?). I do think that the improved Oline and stable of RBs will open up the passing game, not to mention an actual O coordinator in Marty calling plays.

    But point is, in the off season, with this unproven roster, no one is going to go out on a limb and say they will be good. In fact, I kind of hope they don't.

    I think Rex and the NYJ play better with a chip on their shoulder.

  5. #5
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    all the media morons saw Eisen going for those yucks on Thursday and Friday and are giving it a try...


    as they sing in the Book of Mormon


    "Turn em off"

  6. #6
    this is the best RB group we've had since 2009 and the O-line went through some much-needed updating.

    but WR and TE remain huge question marks.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Arctor View Post
    The thread title is something we've all heard this offseason, often multiple times. Mike & Mike on ESPN both reiterated it (in different words) yet again this morning, in their post-Tebow Musings.

    The question I'd like to ask......is this really true for 2013?

    Does the 2013 Jets Offense REALLY have "no talent" around whomever wins the QB competition?

    Let me lay out one possible (likely I'd say) Jets starting Offense.


    When I look at this group, I don't see "no talent". I see alot of unknowns, but I don't see "no talent".

    Is this a bonifide Super Bowl quality unit? No, of course not.

    But can this unit, exempting the QB position, compete in the NFL and be competative vs. other teams Offenseive personel? Yes, I think it can.

    I, for one, am getting tired of having the "other 10 guys" derided and abused as talentless suckbags, when the truth is, it all starts and ends with play at the QB position.

    Konrad Reuland at TE..I like..I think he is a good fit for a WCO..

    Clyde Gates at WR..Let's see what an offseason does..He needs to improve his route running and in a major way (rounds too many off)..But he has talent

    I'd also add I expect the OL to perform better. Pass blocking on the right side last season was very inconsistent..

    And the Jets have a tried and true OC..
    Last edited by C Mart; 04-30-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  8. #8
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    I'd love to be Geno. He has talent and he will have more than people give the Jets credit for around him. When the O plays better than most predict he'll get tons of credit while Sanchez looks worse.

    Let Francessa and the rest of the clowns laugh at the O. It's what they do.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by One Eye View Post
    Its the offseason. On paper, the Jets have a terrible O right now b/c:

    NO proven QB
    NO proven playmakers except Santonio coming off a bad injury and Kerley, a former fifth round pick, and two talented but un-proven RBs.
    NO TE threat, although apparently no one could cover Hayden Smith by the end of last year. Not sure if that's good for him, or just a knock on our LBs.
    This.

    Anyone who thinks that the offense that came out of Cortland last August was NFL-ready needs to have his head examined. No quarterback could've succeeded with that low level of talent around him, Mark Sanchez included.

    Let me remind everyone that nobody was worried about Mark Sanchez opening day 2011. We were all in Aso mode, making reservations for the Super Bowl, quarterback was the least of our concern. Things went completely downhill when our running game stalled, when Wayne Hunter got toasted, and when the old wide receivers faded late. None of those issues were addressed in the 2012 off-season, and they continue to go unaddressed in the 2013 off-season.

    We ruined Mark Sanchez and we will ruin Geno Smith too if we don't figure out a way to run the ball, protect the quarterback, and have some reliable receiving targets. I appreciate everyone's optimism and I realize that that is what April is supposed to be about, but this team is an offensive disaster and there's no reason to believe otherwise right now.

    SAR I

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Arctor View Post
    The thread title is something we've all heard this offseason, often multiple times. Mike & Mike on ESPN both reiterated it (in different words) yet again this morning, in their post-Tebow Musings.

    The question I'd like to ask......is this really true for 2013?

    Does the 2013 Jets Offense REALLY have "no talent" around whomever wins the QB competition?

    Let me lay out one possible (likely I'd say) Jets starting Offense.



    When I look at this group, I don't see "no talent". I see alot of unknowns, but I don't see "no talent".

    Is this a bonifide Super Bowl quality unit? No, of course not.

    But can this unit, exempting the QB position, compete in the NFL and be competative vs. other teams Offenseive personel? Yes, I think it can.

    I, for one, am getting tired of having the "other 10 guys" derided and abused as talentless suckbags, when the truth is, it all starts and ends with play at the QB position.
    Sanchez's failures have made them look much worse than they are. Improved RBs and OL should help a lot.

  11. #11
    Let's look at the talent:

    Holmes-below average #1 receiver being fair, especially coming off injury.

    Hill-Complete unknown. Immensely talented, but immensely raw. Has he improved in the offseason? Until we know for sure he has to be graded as a poor #2 receiver.

    Kerley-Above average #3 receiver.

    Cumberland-Below average TE.

    Goodson/Ivory/Powell/McKnight-Right now I'd say they're average.

    OL-Alot of new faces coming in. 2 starters gone from last year (though this is likely a good thing) and also Howard will be facing competition (also a good thing). I think our OL will at least be average this season.

    So overall we are not "talentless", however we are not close to being a fearsome powerhouse either. We need things to go our way, especially Hill. Holmes needs to not only play like he's paid, but keep his mouth shut as well. Outside of QWB our biggest issue last year was the WR's. They were horrible. Gates, Jason Hill, Turner.....these are guys that have no business being on an NFL field.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    seriously


    pay no attention to what the Mike and Mikes and the rest of the media buffoons say about anything. Do as I did, turn off sports talk radio and leave it off

    QB was the major problem the last two seasons with the 52 turnover suck machine at that position. David Garrard will finally be a competent and efficient player occupying that position and he will make the other 10 players on offense better. Greg McElroy will be an adequate backup and Geno Smith a more than adequate developmental QB who should be ready to step in in 2014 or 2015 when he is ready having been mentored by Garrard
    You win 6 games with the worst QB in league (statistically).

    Never ending 3 and Outs, D on the field 40 minutes a game.

    How many do you win with just an average QB who protects the ball?

    How many do you win with a good/great QB?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    This.

    Anyone who thinks that the offense that came out of Cortland last August was NFL-ready needs to have his head examined. No quarterback could've succeeded with that low level of talent around him, Mark Sanchez included.

    Let me remind everyone that nobody was worried about Mark Sanchez opening day 2011. We were all in Aso mode, making reservations for the Super Bowl, quarterback was the least of our concern. Things went completely downhill when our running game stalled, when Wayne Hunter got toasted, and when the old wide receivers faded late. None of those issues were addressed in the 2012 off-season, and they continue to go unaddressed in the 2013 off-season.

    We ruined Mark Sanchez and we will ruin Geno Smith too if we don't figure out a way to run the ball, protect the quarterback, and have some reliable receiving targets. I appreciate everyone's optimism and I realize that that is what April is supposed to be about, but this team is an offensive disaster and there's no reason to believe otherwise right now.

    SAR I
    That is why the Jets got two new RBs with NFL experience, each with 5+ YPC, drafted for the Oline and should be able to get a FA/Cut WR who is decent, a Edwards/Lloyd type of WR. Of course this is assuming Holmes is back and plays. Hill will have a full off season under his belt and Kerley showed he can play last year.

    Plus, if Mark can "win" the job, it will be becasue of hard work and improvement in his game management and prep.

    The new motto for the Jets is that every position is open for competition, a different ring than years past.

  14. #14
    False... Good QB's find ways to play good anyway. You can put complete garbage with Brady and he's still going to find a way to make them look good.

    A good QB makes everything look better. The above argument was only an argument made by people trying to defend Sanchez.

    Unfortunately this league has evolved into a league completely based on the QB.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    This.

    Anyone who thinks that the offense that came out of Cortland last August was NFL-ready needs to have his head examined. No quarterback could've succeeded with that low level of talent around him, Mark Sanchez included.

    Let me remind everyone that nobody was worried about Mark Sanchez opening day 2011. We were all in Aso mode, making reservations for the Super Bowl, quarterback was the least of our concern. Things went completely downhill when our running game stalled, when Wayne Hunter got toasted, and when the old wide receivers faded late. None of those issues were addressed in the 2012 off-season, and they continue to go unaddressed in the 2013 off-season.

    We ruined Mark Sanchez and we will ruin Geno Smith too if we don't figure out a way to run the ball, protect the quarterback, and have some reliable receiving targets. I appreciate everyone's optimism and I realize that that is what April is supposed to be about, but this team is an offensive disaster and there's no reason to believe otherwise right now.

    SAR I
    Interesting comments from a guy that is ripping every move the Jets have made this offseason. We addressed the RB position, QB position and the OLine in the draft.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF View Post
    You win 6 games with the worst QB in league (statistically).

    Never ending 3 and Outs, D on the field 40 minutes a game.

    How many do you win with just an average QB who protects the ball?

    How many do you win with a good/great QB?


    The Jets are 1-11 against winning teams since the end of the 2010 season.

    Well the offense clearly has its issues, the defense plays horrifically against the better teams in the league. We are always down by 10 to 14 points at halftime, we are always giving up huge plays against what was thought to be a very talented secondary, and running backs and scatback's eat us alive.

    This theory that a better quarterback would have won us an extra two or three games makes sense. The problem is, those extra games would've been against the scrub teams not the elite teams because our defense was never good enough to shut them down.

    The problems here run way deeper than quarterback. I know you are conditioned to believe that a quarterback change can solve all of our problems because that is what has happened here since 1996. It isn't the case anymore.

    SAR I

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FlagmanL11 View Post
    That is why the Jets got two new RBs with NFL experience, each with 5+ YPC, drafted for the Oline and should be able to get a FA/Cut WR who is decent, a Edwards/Lloyd type of WR. Of course this is assuming Holmes is back and plays. Hill will have a full off season under his belt and Kerley showed he can play last year.

    Plus, if Mark can "win" the job, it will be becasue of hard work and improvement in his game management and prep.

    The new motto for the Jets is that every position is open for competition, a different ring than years past.
    We picked up a couple of third stringers from other teams. The jury is still out on these new acquisitions which on paper appear to be no better than Shonn Greene right now.

    As far as the rookies, sorry, I've been listening since 2009 for some great new rookie player to emerge and lead us to victory and so far none has. Every April, everyone raves about the Jets draft and how these players are going to show up and have immediate impact and none of them ever do. And, ironically, the one player who actually fits that bill is now being run out of town.

    SAR I

  18. #18
    I don't really get the criticism either.. we added a bunch of OL depth which should make for a vast improvement over last year. Brick and Mangold had down years.. no reason to not expect them to bounce back.

    I don't know how anyone can't be excited about the additions to the running game. Ivory and Goodson are huge upgrades over what we had last year, even if they're "unproven".

    And as others have pointed out, Holmes, Kerly, Hill, FA WR (Braylon?) isn't the greatest show on turf, but is certainly as good or better than Tom Brady had for most of his early career.

    TE remains a weak spot for sure. Cumberland showed flashes as a pass catcher but this remains the biggest question mark.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan1983 View Post
    False... Good QB's find ways to play good anyway. You can put complete garbage with Brady and he's still going to find a way to make them look good.

    A good QB makes everything look better. The above argument was only an argument made by people trying to defend Sanchez.

    Unfortunately this league has evolved into a league completely based on the QB.
    Mark Sanchez was not drafted thinking that he was going to be the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, or Aaron Rodgers. Mark Sanchez had none of those tools coming out of college, and was taken because we were desperate for a quarterback after Brett Favre left town and no FA's were available.

    Mark Sanchez was brought on board to be a safe piece of an offense built on a dominant running game. Along with a ferocious defense, that's all that was necessary out of the quarterback position. In mid 2011 things changed. Our tight end got hurt, our running back got old, and our wide receivers crumbled. The once dominant defense couldn't stop all cold. Mark Sanchez was asked to throw 40 to 50 times a game to a set of receivers that weren't capable of playing at that level. The wheels fell off the bus, the quarterback looked the worst of the group, easy scapegoat for a much bigger issue.

    The Rex Ryan Jets were built to win on a ground attack and a dominant defense. Those two strategies fell apart these past two years but all anyone wants to talk about is the quarterback who was never supposed to be the guy to carry the team. If he was, we never would've left Cortland last August with such a pathetic offense. Mark Sanchez sucks but he is not our problem. We were never supposed to win it in the air. Blame the ground attack and blame the defense.

    SAR I

  20. #20
    Ivory immediately is an upgrade over Greene.

    Mornhinweg is an actual offensive coordinator.

    Garrard and Smith are both upgrades over Sanchez and McElroy.

    Hill should be better in year 2 (and his measurables have not suffered.)

    Better o-line than last year.

    Still a bad offense, but these clowns shovel it on, when this team literally needs to ease in Smith and be bad. Then get Marquise Lee next year.

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