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Thread: "No Jets QB Can Succeed, Because the Jets Offense Has No Talent"

  1. #41
    I wouldn't say Holmes and Edwards represent "no talent", if they play up to potential then they represent significant talent at WR. Half the o-line is questionable. The RB's are questionable. The turnover in coaching staff represents a challenge. The TE position is questionable.


    With so many qiestions one cannot say with certainty if things will go very bad or very good, but there is the possibility things will go well which you never hear from the talking heads.
    Last edited by billygreen; 04-30-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    +1 We could have had Freeman staying were we were..
    same QB that schiano might want to get rid of? that guy?
    freeman stinks

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    same QB that schiano might want to get rid of? that guy?
    freeman stinks
    Agreed. Threw for over 4,000 yards unlike Sanchez but has almost the same amount of turnovers over the past 2 years (he has like 48, Sanchez has 52 I think).

    I don't see Freeman as a franchise QB unless he can prove me wrong this year. If the Bucs don't make the playoffs then Freeman is gone.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by joe810 View Post
    please explain back to back afc championship games and a win in NE on the road oh and the afc championship game against big ben mark outplayed him by far. mark was our best player that day he has talent not sure how much but he can play in this league
    Very easy to explain.

    Mark Sanchez was absolutely carried by his team, his running game and his D in both the 2009 and 2010 regular seasons.

    Even then, he was so meh that we did not storm into the playoffs either year, despite top tier rated running games and defenses, we lucked in/squeezed in/needed help to get in at the end. Everyone seems to forget how much help we needed just to get in both years, and how bad Sanchez really was in those regular seasons.

    I completely agree that Mark Sanchez played his very best football in the post-seasons those two years. He, in both instances, was a solid average NFL Quarterback. Not great by ANY measure, but average. And an average QB + top tier running game + top tier defense in those years can compete with anyone. And we did.

    The problem, of course, is that he is not average in the regular season. Not in 2009, 2010, 2011 or 2012. He is, clearly, one of the very worst QB's in the NFL over that period. Amongst the worst in accuracy, interceptions, fumbles, 3-&-outs and scoring productivity.

    Put simply, at some point the responsabillity of the QB, the hands-down most important and vital position on the field, means that Sanchez either can make the talent around him better, or he cannot. Mark cannot, it's very clear.

    Sanchez (IMO) will get a very fair try in 2013, his 5th year in the NFL, with enough talent around him that there will be no excuses. He will either succeed or fail on his own quality of play.
    Last edited by Churchill; 04-30-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyWill View Post
    Agreed. Threw for over 4,000 yards unlike Sanchez but has almost the same amount of turnovers over the past 2 years (he has like 48, Sanchez has 52 I think).

    I don't see Freeman as a franchise QB unless he can prove me wrong this year. If the Bucs don't make the playoffs then Freeman is gone.
    were on the same page
    i would just add that he had a ton of "fantasy" yards
    where they were behind (to a point where they werent going to win) and he just aired it out

  6. #46
    WR is a big question mark and TE is dreadful, but the OL is revamped and we have a good set of young backs

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Arctor View Post
    Very easy to explain.

    Mark Sanchez was absolutely carried by his team, his running game and his D in both the 2009 and 2010 regular seasons.

    Even then, he was so meh that we did not storm into the playoffs either year, despite top tier rated running games and defenses, we lucked in/squeezed in/needed help to get in at the end. Everyone seems to forget how much help we needed just to get in both years, and how bad Sanchez really was in those regular seasons.

    I completely agree that Mark Sanchez played his very best football in the post-seasons those two years. He, in both instances, was a solid average NFL Quarterback. Not great by ANY measure, but average. And an average QB + top tier running game + top tier defense in those years can compete with anyone. And we did.

    The problem, of course, is that he is not average in the regular season. Not in 2009, 2010, 2011 or 2012. He is, clearly, one of the very worst QB's in the NFL over that period. Amongst the worst in accuracy, interceptions, fumbles, 3-&-outs and scoring productivity.

    Put simply, at some point the responsabillity of the QB, the hands-down most important and vital position on the field, means that Sanchez either can make the talent around him better, or he cannot. Mark cannot, it's very clear.

    Sanchez (IMO) will get a very fair try in 2013, his 5th year in the NFL, with enough talent around him that there will be no excuses. He will either succeed or fail on his own quality of play.
    In 2009, yes, they needed help.... with a rookie QB. In 2010, they were a very good team.... 11-5, which, in most divisions, wins the division title. They didn't need a ton of help, that year, they were the top wild card. Sanchez also brought them to victory, late, in 4 or 5 of those games. History does not need to be rewritten.

  8. #48
    I was listening to francesa at the end of the season lazt year, and he was asked how many wins Tom Brady would have had with this offense, and he said eight... max nine wins.

  9. #49
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    Who is the best player on the offense?

    The center. And he's coming off a bit of a down year.

    Name 1 pro-bowl player at a skill position. No, center is not a "skill position"

    Name 1 skill player who teams have to scheme around. No, teams don't scheme around the center, and he's not a "skill position"

    Name 1 offensive player who isn't the center who is top 5 at his position. Name 1 offensive player who is top 10 at his position other than LT and center.

    Our only semi-proven offensive weapon is a WR known for running precise routes. Except he has an attitude problem. And he is coming off a severely broken foot.

    Sanchez played poorly, no doubt, not pretending he is great. But why would you put a rookie who most people says needs some time to learn in to start on this offense? You want Sanchez out, just out? Fine, let Garrard take the hits for the first 8-10 weeks, then put in the rookie.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Life View Post
    WR is a big question mark and TE is dreadful, but the OL is revamped and we have a good set of young backs
    Is the O-Line good enough to run against 8-9 man fronts? Because there is no proven QB, and no proven WR who can take the top off of a D. Morningwhig or whatever his name is will take a lot of abuse, but an OC has to have some sort of talent to work with.

    Hey, I like the draft. Re-build the line. Take a good young QB. But this offense is minimum 1-2 years away from being legit.

  11. #51
    We need a good catching TE. We should have signed Fred Davis.

  12. #52
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    I like the Ivory and Goodson pickups. Also like the offensive linemen we drafted. Morninweg should be a big upgrade over Sparano.

    That said, we're still bottom 5 in offensive talent. You have to look at our team in comparison to the rest of the league, and we just don't match up at this point. We've been using all of our 1st round draft picks on defense, and we've ended up where we are, no elite offensive players.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps1012 View Post
    We need a good catching TE. We should have signed Fred Davis.
    Would've been a very good pickup, agree

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    Who is the best player on the offense?

    The center. And he's coming off a bit of a down year.

    Name 1 pro-bowl player at a skill position. No, center is not a "skill position"

    Name 1 skill player who teams have to scheme around. No, teams don't scheme around the center, and he's not a "skill position"

    Name 1 offensive player who isn't the center who is top 5 at his position. Name 1 offensive player who is top 10 at his position other than LT and center.

    Our only semi-proven offensive weapon is a WR known for running precise routes. Except he has an attitude problem. And he is coming off a severely broken foot.

    Sanchez played poorly, no doubt, not pretending he is great. But why would you put a rookie who most people says needs some time to learn in to start on this offense? You want Sanchez out, just out? Fine, let Garrard take the hits for the first 8-10 weeks, then put in the rookie.
    Yeah pretty much this. The only downside is we're basically committed to not taking a QB next year then because we won't have seen enough of Geno. I think it's still worth it to break him in slowly though because with our wideouts he's going to have some trouble

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JmercJETS View Post
    Yeah pretty much this. The only downside is we're basically committed to not taking a QB next year then because we won't have seen enough of Geno. I think it's still worth it to break him in slowly though because with our wideouts he's going to have some trouble
    If you aren't going to train him properly, don't take him. Putting him out there to get his butt handed to him by Bellichek, the Steelers, and the Ravens is not going to teach him anything but how to take a beating.

    This isn't the ground and pound team when Sanchez was a rookie. This is 2/3 of a team, a team with 40 million in dead money. It isn't even a full NFL roster. Again, I like what Idzik is doing, needs to be done. But this season's offense will be rough.

  16. #56
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    I heard on ESPN saying Geno Smith has a fast eye and a very quick release. When I look at Mark Sanchez in 2012 he is hesitating on most plays to pull the trigger. It is like he is afraid to make a mistake unless a WR is wide open.

    I'd like to see Geno start early on the season and see whar he's got. The last few years Rookie QB's have stepped up and done very well out of the gate. As a round 2 pick we have nothing to lose by starting Geno. My guess is this guy is going to succeed. But who knows. Can't wait to see how he does.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post

    We ruined Mark Sanchez and we will ruin Geno Smith too if we don't figure out a way to run the ball, protect the quarterback, and have some reliable receiving targets. I appreciate everyone's optimism and I realize that that is what April is supposed to be about, but this team is an offensive disaster and there's no reason to believe otherwise right now.

    SAR I

    Funny thing is that Green Bay manages to be very successful even though they have no running game to speak of and Aaron Rogers got sacked more times than Sanchez did.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by JmercJETS View Post
    Yeah pretty much this. The only downside is we're basically committed to not taking a QB next year then because we won't have seen enough of Geno. I think it's still worth it to break him in slowly though because with our wideouts he's going to have some trouble
    Honestly, Bridgewater's going to likely be a great pro, but look at Matt Stafford. Big guy, big arm, enormous pumpkin head, not a great decision maker but Calvin Johnson makes him a top 8 or 9 QB.

    Now imagine scoring Marquise Lee next year.............and Hill actually isn't a complete waste.

    That's a pretty damned good place to be. And yes, we are definitely in the running for Lee. He'll be top 5. We could conceivably land him, Clowney, or Yeldon, all of him are elite-level prospects coming out in '14.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post


    The Jets are 1-11 against winning teams since the end of the 2010 season.

    Well the offense clearly has its issues, the defense plays horrifically against the better teams in the league. We are always down by 10 to 14 points at halftime, we are always giving up huge plays against what was thought to be a very talented secondary, and running backs and scatback's eat us alive.

    This theory that a better quarterback would have won us an extra two or three games makes sense. The problem is, those extra games would've been against the scrub teams not the elite teams because our defense was never good enough to shut them down.

    The problems here run way deeper than quarterback. I know you are conditioned to believe that a quarterback change can solve all of our problems because that is what has happened here since 1996. It isn't the case anymore.

    SAR I
    In the 7 games you mentioned our offense and special teams turned the ball over 19 times. And of those 19 turnovers in those particular 7 games they directly contributed to 71 points let up. And by directly I mean giving the opposing team a short field or the other team scoring off the fumble/Int/Punt Block.

    So if you just base the defense off of how they played when not coming off a turnover and defending a short field then the defense let up 20 points per game in those 7 games. That avg is good to be top 10 in pts against over the course of the season.

    Of the 19 turnovers 13 of them were by Sanchez, 7 int and 6 fumbles. You can blame the running game and defense all you want but when you're QB is a turnover machine and can't complete more then 53% of his passes you won't be able to run and you will continue to give opposing offenses short fields against your defense.

    And you forgot to circle week 13 where Greene ran for more yards then Sanchez threw for. It must be nice to cherry pick statistics.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Mark Sanchez was not drafted thinking that he was going to be the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, or Aaron Rodgers. Mark Sanchez had none of those tools coming out of college, and was taken because we were desperate for a quarterback after Brett Favre left town and no FA's were available.

    Mark Sanchez was brought on board to be a safe piece of an offense built on a dominant running game. Along with a ferocious defense, that's all that was necessary out of the quarterback position. In mid 2011 things changed. Our tight end got hurt, our running back got old, and our wide receivers crumbled. The once dominant defense couldn't stop all cold. Mark Sanchez was asked to throw 40 to 50 times a game to a set of receivers that weren't capable of playing at that level. The wheels fell off the bus, the quarterback looked the worst of the group, easy scapegoat for a much bigger issue.

    The Rex Ryan Jets were built to win on a ground attack and a dominant defense. Those two strategies fell apart these past two years but all anyone wants to talk about is the quarterback who was never supposed to be the guy to carry the team. If he was, we never would've left Cortland last August with such a pathetic offense. Mark Sanchez sucks but he is not our problem. We were never supposed to win it in the air. Blame the ground attack and blame the defense.

    SAR I
    A monkey could have been the qb of 09/10 teams. Carrying a weak qb for 2 years with dominant D and running game. 2011 jets took off the training wheels and asked mark to be a regular qb, the team's back was hurting after carrying the rook for 2 years.. Training wheels off mark fell off the bike again and again, and again..

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