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Thread: Bloomberg eviscerates the NY Times over "stop & frisk"

  1. #21
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    .


    Amendment IV


    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

  2. #22
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

    For your reading pleasure, Buster

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

    For your reading pleasure, Buster
    Thank you.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum View Post
    Republicans/Conservatives should abandon NY, and let the freeloaders pay their own way. The rich have already started moving out.
    There building and selling more multi million dollar apartments then ever. The rich in NYC pay very high income taxes but they pay some of the lowest property taxes in the city. High end apartments are selling for as much as 10,000 per square foot with assessments as low as 335 dollars a square foot. Those with the biggest most expensive apartments are paying the lowest property tax by far. That's why high end apartments continue to go up and sell to the wealthy from all over the world.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

    For your reading pleasure, Buster
    Thanks

    And Reasonable suspicion is determined by eye color?

    Zip Code?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    Thanks

    And Reasonable suspicion is determined by eye color?

    Zip Code?
    This is pure cynical contrarian lib-blather.

    Where do the most people get killed with deadly weapons in the city of NY?

    What are the descriptions of the victim and the perp.?

    WOuld it stand to reason that more police resources are allocated to and NEEDED in these communities and, the horror, there are more suspiciously acting people cuing cops with their body language?

    Go ahead and focus on the instances where there are bad stops. I'll sleep tightly knowing thousands, THOUSANDS of young lives were saved in NY by pro-active policing, strategically deployed.


  7. #27
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    Bloomberg is a tyrant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    This is pure cynical contrarian lib-blather.

    Where do the most people get killed with deadly weapons in the city of NY?

    What are the descriptions of the victim and the perp.?

    WOuld it stand to reason that more police resources are allocated to and NEEDED in these communities and, the horror, there are more suspiciously acting people cuing cops with their body language?

    Go ahead and focus on the instances where there are bad stops. I'll sleep tightly knowing thousands, THOUSANDS of young lives were saved in NY by pro-active policing, strategically deployed.

    If you amputate your feet you will never get toes nail fungus

  9. #29
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    Isn't most all of this stop and frisk done on private property, as not in the subway or Central Park?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    This is pure cynical contrarian lib-blather.

    Where do the most people get killed with deadly weapons in the city of NY?

    What are the descriptions of the victim and the perp.?

    WOuld it stand to reason that more police resources are allocated to and NEEDED in these communities and, the horror, there are more suspiciously acting people cuing cops with their body language?

    Go ahead and focus on the instances where there are bad stops. I'll sleep tightly knowing thousands, THOUSANDS of young lives were saved in NY by pro-active policing, strategically deployed.

    It doesn't matter how many lives are saved.

    We either believe the constitution ought to be obeyed, or we don't.

    "Reasonable suspicion" is a subjective and useless phrase.

    I believe most of our cops are really good people. But i don't believe our laws should make any such assumption.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    toes nail fungus
    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    It doesn't matter how many lives are saved.
    So revealing.

    Venture to speculate that if it was cultivated white kids littering the streets, instead of 3-4th generation minority welfare kids.... your cavalier dismissal of NYS CPL 140.50 (which authorizes SQ&F...not Bloomberg) would instead be a blood curdling scream for more cops/enforcement etc.

    Typical...pseudo-racist......lib......blather.


    I rest my case.


    -

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    Thanks

    And Reasonable suspicion is determined by eye color?

    Zip Code?
    Behavior, experience, and the subjective determination of the cop on the beat.

    Note, anyone at all is free to sue the city for a stop and frisk in violation of their fourth amendment rights - that is, one unexplainable by reasonable suspicion. When a few of those go through and are proven out, you can get back to me. Until then, what we have is a working policy and people who are complaining - without much in the way of evidence - that they were stopped for being black.

    If random "walking while black" stops were endemic, you'd think there'd be one or two with witnesses filing complaints.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    Behavior, experience, and the subjective determination of the cop on the beat.

    Note, anyone at all is free to sue the city for a stop and frisk in violation of their fourth amendment rights - that is, one unexplainable by reasonable suspicion. When a few of those go through and are proven out, you can get back to me. Until then, what we have is a working policy and people who are complaining - without much in the way of evidence - that they were stopped for being black.

    If random "walking while black" stops were endemic, you'd think there'd be one or two with witnesses filing complaints.
    The statistics alone would make a reasonable case for this searches. All this policy has done is sent a message to gang bangers and others that they can't bring their guns into the street and they aren't doing it and the murder rate has been reduced substantially. Those searched are also protected by the 4th amendment if a warrant is actually issued. Presumably a Judge will determine if the evidence was gathered through a reasonable search.

    The reality of any professional policing is based on observation and judgment based on criteria. Profiling is based on documented criteria not skin color, religion or zip code. The fact that this action has actually made people secure in their persons is completely ignored by those who see this as a one sided Constitutional issue.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 05-08-2013 at 09:23 AM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
    If you amputate your feet you will never get toes nail fungus
    No, you'll have bigger problems. Odd that you missed that portion of the anecdote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    It doesn't matter how many lives are saved.

    We either believe the constitution ought to be obeyed, or we don't.
    So black and white interpretations of a document that has been historically interpreted in various shades of grey trumps protecting and saving lives? Yeesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    "Reasonable suspicion" is a subjective and useless phrase.
    "Reasonable suspicion" is indeed subjective, but it's only useless because you wish it to be so. Had "reasonable suspicion" been applied a bit more subjectively, perhaps Amanda Berry's mom would have found out her daughter was still alive before she herself passed away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    I believe most of our cops are really good people. But i don't believe our laws should make any such assumption.
    Our laws and the training they dictate are the very thing that should allow for us to believe most cops are good people. That's supposed to be the weeding out process. Now, if you have a problem with the weed out, that's another matter. Heck, there's not even a law that says most <insert religious group> are good people, but we're told time and again that they are. Really. Truly. Cuts both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetworks View Post
    "Reasonable suspicion" is indeed subjective, but it's only useless because you wish it to be so. Had "reasonable suspicion" been applied a bit more subjectively, perhaps Amanda Berry's mom would have found out her daughter was still alive before she herself passed away.
    Reasonable suspicion? There are reports that neighbors called reporting naked women in dog collars and chains in the backyard but the cops couldn't be bothered to stop by and investigate.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axil View Post
    It doesn't matter how many lives are saved.

    We either believe the constitution ought to be obeyed, or we don't.

    "Reasonable suspicion" is a subjective and useless phrase.

    I believe most of our cops are really good people. But i don't believe our laws should make any such assumption.


    Nonsense. Liberal psycho babble. Protect decent and/or innocent people.
    If the stopped person is ok - no harm, no foul.
    Safety of all trumps rights of a few. Sorry.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Reasonable suspicion? There are reports that neighbors called reporting naked women in dog collars and chains in the backyard but the cops couldn't be bothered to stop by and investigate.
    Oh boy this is becoming another Boston internet too fast to judgement BS. What type of neighbor would not help someone if that was true?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Reasonable suspicion? There are reports that neighbors called reporting naked women in dog collars and chains in the backyard but the cops couldn't be bothered to stop by and investigate.
    Actually, the report appears to have been "naked woman crawling in the backyard" - which, absent any other indication that the woman in question was there against their will, isn't criminal. People do some weird **** all on their own

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by palmetto defender View Post
    Nonsense. Liberal psycho babble. Protect decent and/or innocent people.
    If the stopped person is ok - no harm, no foul.
    Safety of all trumps rights of a few. Sorry.
    Not quite, PD. That same logic would apply just as strongly to warrantless searches of homes, after all. Constitutional rights matter.

    That said, there is nothing unconstitutional in a cop asking someone on the street questions.

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    Some people appear to embrace a full blown police state. Quite scary.

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