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Thread: NJ ASK (Standardized Testing)

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    ROFLMAO!!!!!! So what you are saying is that adults studying for the BAR EXAM only test for two days and a 3d grader has to sit and test for SIX DAYS??!!!

    Yeah, nothing wrong here

    BTW, the billionaires who have attached their names to testing (Gates, Bush, Bloomberg) and politicians looking to profit by joining these companies after they leave politics love people who defend the over testing of our nations children.

    Because when I think of people that care about children, I think of corporate billionaires rather that an educator who dedicated their careers to teaching knowing they will never be wealthy.
    LOL. First of all, the Bar is two consecutive days and designed to test substantive competency sufficient to allow entry into the profession. The Math/English tests are spaced out across the year, to give a measure of improvement over time.

    So the first thing it says is that the Bar and school tests are looking for different things (which should be self-evident).

    The second thing it says is that by affording evaluators a measure of improvement over time, it provides the fairest possible measure for teacher efficacy: improvement over baseline while under the teacher's tutelage.

    If this was a one-time test you'd be screaming about how unfair it is to blame teachers for the collective impact of years of prior learning (or not). As a multifaceted examination of improvement over time, you complain that it's too intensive (probably because you'd prefer to avoid those objective metrics of teacher effectiveness)

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    ROFLMAO!!!!!! So what you are saying is that adults studying for the BAR EXAM only test for two days and a 3d grader has to sit and test for SIX DAYS??!!!

    Yeah, nothing wrong here

    BTW, the billionaires who have attached their names to testing (Gates, Bush, Bloomberg) and politicians looking to profit by joining these companies after they leave politics love people who defend the over testing of our nations children.

    Because when I think of people that care about children, I think of corporate billionaires rather that an educator who dedicated their careers to teaching knowing they will never be wealthy.
    I went to one of the top 10 public schools in the US based on ranking. I would say 1 or 2 at most of the teachers I had cared about children and education as much as Bill Gates and Mike Bloomberg.

    I have met many career public school teachers who could best be described as burn outs who view themselves as marking time until pension.

    You may not like Bloomberg or Gates but the one thing you can't say about them is that they are burnt out or don't care. They have both put an incredible amount of their time and money to help children and improve schools and teaching.

    What's very telling is you trying to nullify their efforts through name calling. As if being successful and dedicated makes them unqualified to offer a better solution than the current status Quo the UFT continues to offer society.

    At least act like a teacher and make an argument grounded in facts and logic instead of the silly tactics of nullification based on "Evil billionaire" "Dictator" - The schools are failing to many of our children. The cost to our society is overwhelming. The status Quo can't be tolerated. Come up with solutions stop defending the failure.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 05-08-2013 at 09:39 AM.

  3. #23
    BTW, each of those SIX TESTS (the interim assessments) has a massive 20 questions on it.

    http://schools.nyc.gov/daa/interimas...Assessment.pdf

    That's a total of 120 questions spaced over October, December, and February.

    The Bar Exam has more than 200 questions and 5 essays over an intensive 2 day period. That you can compare the two at all (let alone think the 20 question tests are cumulatively more extensive or demanding than the Bar) is a symptom of your complete derangement on this subject.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    But they don't do that at my kids schools. They still have gym, art and band and aren't pulled out of those classes for test prep because the tests are based on what the kids have been learning all year. You really need to get out of the school you work in and see what the rest of the country is doing.
    I am not in NJ, but talk with many NJ teachers. I also am informed of school issues in many states and it is clear, "over" testing consumes most of the school year. Its done in very subtle ways so public doesnt notice. They will not cancell are and phys ed, just shorten it, or give written homework, or every once in awhile an essay on top of the essays from all other classes. All in the name of testing for profit on the backs of school children. Especially in the inner cities where parents voices are less involved.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus View Post
    I am not in NJ, but talk with many NJ teachers. I also am informed of school issues in many states and it is clear, "over" testing consumes most of the school year. Its done in very subtle ways so public doesnt notice. They will not cancell are and phys ed, just shorten it, or give written homework, or every once in awhile an essay on top of the essays from all other classes. All in the name of testing for profit on the backs of school children. Especially in the inner cities where parents voices are less involved.
    I'm glad that teachers and the unions are a nonprofit.

    My kids don't do essays in Art or Gym. They draw and play.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    But they don't do that at my kids schools. They still have gym, art and band and aren't pulled out of those classes for test prep because the tests are based on what the kids have been learning all year. You really need to get out of the school you work in and see what the rest of the country is doing.
    That's because, in suburbia, your daughter already knows where she's going to school next (if you stay where you are), for better or for worse. In NYC the stakes are much higher. An average test score in 4th grade, and your choices are severely limited for middle school - could very well be the difference between a good school and an awful one. You need a 4 (basically, an A) to get into the better schools, and there are fewer seats available related to students that want them as enrollment rises and yet jobs are lost, and so class sizes grow. Kid is sick one of the test days? Go to the 2500+ student middle school that you're zoned for, even if you're the top student in the class (happened to 3 of the top 10 students in my older son's class 2 yrs ago). And it makes it much harder to get into a good high school (a few students getting into top high schools out of hundreds vs. 20-50% of 80 or a hundred kids in a better middle school), so it actually matters. So don't wonder why they teach only to the test, how can you expect them to do anything else, with so much riding on it? And if your kid is already at that level going into 4th grade in English and/or Math, know that they will learn nothing that year.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    That's because, in suburbia, your daughter already knows where she's going to school next (if you stay where you are), for better or for worse. In NYC the stakes are much higher. An average test score in 4th grade, and your choices are severely limited for middle school - could very well be the difference between a good school and an awful one. You need a 4 (basically, an A) to get into the better schools, and there are fewer seats available related to students that want them as enrollment rises and yet jobs are lost, and so class sizes grow. Kid is sick one of the test days? Go to the 2500+ student middle school that you're zoned for, even if you're the top student in the class (happened to 3 of the top 10 students in my older son's class 2 yrs ago). And it makes it much harder to get into a good high school (a few students getting into top high schools out of hundreds vs. 20-50% of 80 or a hundred kids in a better middle school), so it actually matters. So don't wonder why they teach only to the test, how can you expect them to do anything else, with so much riding on it? And if your kid is already at that level going into 4th grade in English and/or Math, know that they will learn nothing that year.
    Then I blame the parents for keeping their kids in a system where they can't win. My kids were slated for a bad middle school and the worst high school in the county. I moved. At the same time NJ implemented school choice so it turned out I wouldn't have had to but between the schools and my divorce I got my kids into a better situation. Just because something isn't easy doesn't mean it isn't necessary or right.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trades View Post
    Then I blame the parents for keeping their kids in a system where they can't win. My kids were slated for a bad middle school and the worst high school in the county. I moved. At the same time NJ implemented school choice so it turned out I wouldn't have had to but between the schools and my divorce I got my kids into a better situation. Just because something isn't easy doesn't mean it isn't necessary or right.
    But you're probably not. You're likely in the safe middle at best. If you were in the 5 boros, and you work with them, get tutors, whatever to make sure your kids get that 4, they'll go to schools that far surpass most anything you'll find in suburbia public schools. But not all kids have parents willing to or with the means to do what it takes, and they shouldn't have to. And just because we're fortunate enough (and by 'we' I mean mostly white kids of means and Asian kids) that our kids get into competitive middle schools and better high schools, doesn't make this 'teaching to the test' system right. 4th grade was an absolutely wasted year for my older son, his education was on pause, and looks like for my younger son too right now.
    Last edited by isired; 05-08-2013 at 10:24 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by isired View Post
    I

    But you're probably not. You're likely in the safe middle at best. If you were in the 5 boros, and you work with them, get tutors, whatever to make sure your kids get that 4, they'll go to schools that far surpass most anything you'll find in suburbia public schools. But not all kids have parents willing to or with the means to do what it takes, and they shouldn't have to. And just because we're fortunate enough (and by 'we' I mean mostly white kids of means and Asian kids) that our kids get into competitive middle schools and better high schools, doesn't make this 'teaching to the test' system right. 4th grade was an absolutely wasted year for my older son, his education was on pause, and looks like for my younger son too right now.
    I'm probably not what? In the best school? I know we aren't but it is a good school, the kids are learning and they aren't feeling any of the stress that Cop complains about. They also say they aren't inundated with pretests. They have a good band program, good athletics, etc. The High School they are slated for is top 20% in NJ and they offer amazing programs. This is plenty with an active parent to get the education they need to succeed and move on to college. My daughter qualified to apply to the county Math and Science academy and magnet school but she chose to take honors classes and continue to play sports and have a life. You don't need to be in the best program to get a good education.

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