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Thread: What NFL QBs had a subpar first 3 to 4 years and then succeeded?

  1. #21
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    Steve Young, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, there are more who started bad and became great.

    The difference is that none of them had 4 playoff wins out of the gate and then were raped of all playmakers, protection, and confidence. Mark Sanchez is playoff-proven, quite a rarity. Pray we haven't ruined him forever.

    SAR I

  2. #22

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post
    During his first 2 years I think 95% of Jets fans saw Sanchez as the answer and thought the Jets finally had their longterm QB in place. We were expecting him to continue to progress, to really take the reigns and make the next step to being a Top 10 QB after 2 decent years and lots of playoff success.

    We didn't think he'd plateau and we certainly didn't expect him to regress and get worse. A lot of his regression is on him but there are definitely some contributing factors (multiple offensive systems, the degradation of the Jets offensive line - Wayne Hunter, the loss of major weapons in Edwards, Tomlinson, etc, the loss of the running game as a crutch, injuries in 2012 to Keller, Holmes).

    My question is a simple one - Is there any hope at all for Sanchez to solve his problems and earn the starting job? Take your emotions out of it, forget how much you like or hate the guy....Is Mark Sanchez's career still salvageable under a new OC in Mornhinweg and with a better supporting cast?

    Have we seen any other NFL QBs meander around, have fits and starts, some success and several failures.....and then break through to become a good starter under the right circumstances?

    To me, there's really two questions there.

    Is there any hope of Sanchez solving his problems and earn the starting job?

    I think he could possibly earn the starting job based on a lack of talent from the other QB's, Geno Smith's inexperience, etc..

    I do not believe he'll be able to solve his problems. There are way too many IMO. Inaccuracy, inability to read defenses, cannot go through progressions, throwing into double and triple coverage, lack of touch, etc.

    I see that list as insurmountable this far into his career.

    What the team needs is someone who can learn from his mistakes. Sanchez was unable to. Hopefully, Geno Smith turns out to be someone who will learn from his mistakes.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    and yet, in Year 4 he broke the franchise record for most total TD's in a season.
    Think that speaks more to the merry go round of garbage that has played the position for the Jets for the last 40 years than it does to Dirty's skillset.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    and yet, in Year 4 he broke the franchise record for most total TD's in a season.
    He threw 26 TDs, big deal. Guys like Fitzpatrick and Palmer did that last year, and they were atrocious. I don't care that Mark ran in 6 TDs from the 1 yard line, he's not a threat with his legs and Greene could have taken those in.

    He also led the league in turnovers and didn't sniff 4,000 yards despite the high number of pass attempts, which you left out

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    and yet, in Year 3 he broke the franchise record for most total TD's in a season.
    fixed

  7. #27
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    T6 is hopeless and thankfully June 2 is less than a month away

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    To me, there's really two questions there.

    Is there any hope of Sanchez solving his problems and earn the starting job?

    I think he could possibly earn the starting job based on a lack of talent from the other QB's, Geno Smith's inexperience, etc..

    I do not believe he'll be able to solve his problems. There are way too many IMO. Inaccuracy, inability to read defenses, cannot go through progressions, throwing into double and triple coverage, lack of touch, etc.

    I see that list as insurmountable this far into his career.

    What the team needs is someone who can learn from his mistakes. Sanchez was unable to. Hopefully, Geno Smith turns out to be someone who will learn from his mistakes.
    No quarterback could have succeeded these last two years here. Two OC's, no playmakers, dead running game, lousy OL, a complete mess.

    Give Mark Sanchez some consistent weapons in '11 and '12, he would have progressed. Without them, he collapsed. This season, whether Sanchez or Smith, more of same. The O is worse than last year. Unbelievable.

    SAR I

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    Wow. I know it was a different era, but his stats don't match his game. If you showed me those stats and asked who's they are, I would never guess Bradshaw.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Over four seasons, Mark Sanchez's "signature" game is one where he went 16-25, 194 and 3 TDs. Sure, it was in the playoffs, but Aaron Rodgers threw for a billion yards in the same postseason.

    Your point is right on - you can't regress if you never really progressed.

    BTW - time to change the tag under your name, my man. We no longer want to see Darrelle heal up.
    Yes, it's not to take anything away from that game because he played very well, but that isn't even in the same stratosphere as performances we just saw this past postseason from young QBs (Kaep v. Packers, Wilson v. Falcons). Fact is, we can look at a couple games of evidence for Mark (Pats playoff game, first Colts playoff game), or we can look at 60+ regular season games of mostly mediocre play. What do people think is the real Mark Sanchez? Time to move on.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Think that speaks more to the merry go round of garbage that has played the position for the Jets for the last 40 years than it does to Dirty's skillset.

    absolutely.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    Gannon or Alex Smith maybe.

    Realistically, Sanchez was as terrible in year 4 as he was in year 1. No growth, no improvement, just a lot more money in his pockets courtesy of Woody Johnson. Maybe if he had a brain transplant he could be league average... maybe.
    Mark Sanchez went on a 16-4 run after shaking his rookie jitters in 2009 and for the first half of 2010. And when things cooled off a bit, all he did was lead us to 5 impossible last-minute fourth quarter comebacks, two improbable playoff wins, again, on the road, including the dagger in Foxboro.

    Let's say he wasn't "great". Merely "good" during that stretch. Can you name another quarterback not named Brady or Marino that had that level of experience and success that early in his career? No, you can't. Kid just turned 23, already had a 4-2 playoff record and was arguably the best Jet on the field in the two losses which were both Championship games, tremendous pressure, he outperformed Todd and Testaverde as well as O'Brien and Pennington who never made it that far. We were looking at the potential second-coming of Joe Namath. We were set up for our savior.

    And that's where Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum and two horrible offensive coordinators ruined the kid. No weapons, no protection, no playmakers, no running game, you know the rest.

    Maybe be wasn't great, but who is? The POTENTIAL Mark Sanchez showed back in '09 and '10 was something very important and something that was completely neglected so we could focus on, what else, the defense.

    I disregard the last two seasons because a) no quarterback could have succeeded with that load of crap around him and b) the Jets owed the 24 year old some f-cking support that they deliberately robbed him of. I contend that in the right circumstances back then, with a set of WR's to bond with and get in rhythm with, without Wayne Hunter getting him killed, he might have developed into something special.

    I don't think that is a criminal point of view for a Jets fan to take, nor do I think that Mark Sanchez can't improve if supported.

    SAR I

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejet22 View Post
    fixed
    correct, i'll go back and change it.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Wow. I know it was a different era, but his stats don't match his game. If you showed me those stats and asked who's they are, I would never guess Bradshaw.
    And Lynn Swann never had a 1,000 yd season and only 2 seasons with 50 or more receptions(61 highest)..

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Wow. I know it was a different era, but his stats don't match his game. If you showed me those stats and asked who's they are, I would never guess Bradshaw.


    Some quarterbacks have lousy stats and play inconsistently in the regular season but are money in the postseason.

    When you find one, you don't get rid of them unless you're positive that they're incapable of improving when supported properly.

    SAR I

  16. #36
    John kitna was horrible for years and all of a sudden became pretty damn good and went to the probowl. Rodney peete had 1 great season after he was out of the league for awhile.

  17. #37
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    I'm seeing Eli, Doug Williams, Gannon, Steve Young, Vinny Testaverde, etc.

    So we're saying there's a chance, even if it's small, that under the right circumstances we could see Sanchez 2.0 be successful?

    I think we need to give him one more shot and not dump him on June 1. Let him battle it out all Summer and see what happens. But this is the last shot.

    Cutting him on June 1 would be a mistake in my opinion. Unfortunately, I can see a very Jet-like scenario in which we dump Sanchez just as he's starting to "get it" and he catches on with another team to become a good starter.

    I can just imagine Sanchez becoming good, not great, but a consistent starter for some team whose coach says, "Well, look at who was surrounding him in 2012. What did you expect? Mark Sanchez isn't inadequate, it was the Jets handling of Mark Sanchez that was inadequate. We're happy he's our starting QB."

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    And Lynn Swann never had a 1,000 yd season and only 2 seasons with 50 or more receptions(61 highest)..
    That's insane. Different era I suppose.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post


    Some quarterbacks have lousy stats and play inconsistently in the regular season but are money in the postseason.

    When you find one, you don't get rid of them unless you're positive that they're incapable of improving when supported properly.

    SAR I
    9 TDs, 3 INTs are great in the postseason. But dig deeper, we were winning by running the ball. In our 4 victories Sanchez's passing yards were all under 200. We lost the two games in which he threw for more than 200 yards. Our opponents figured out that to beat us they just had to stop our run.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Mark Sanchez went on a 16-4 run after shaking his rookie jitters in 2009 and for the first half of 2010. And when things cooled off a bit, all he did was lead us to 5 impossible last-minute fourth quarter comebacks, two improbable playoff wins, again, on the road, including the dagger in Foxboro.

    Let's say he wasn't "great". Merely "good" during that stretch. Can you name another quarterback not named Brady or Marino that had that level of experience and success that early in his career? No, you can't. Kid just turned 23, already had a 4-2 playoff record and was arguably the best Jet on the field in the two losses which were both Championship games, tremendous pressure, he outperformed Todd and Testaverde as well as O'Brien and Pennington who never made it that far. We were looking at the potential second-coming of Joe Namath. We were set up for our savior.

    And that's where Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum and two horrible offensive coordinators ruined the kid. No weapons, no protection, no playmakers, no running game, you know the rest.

    Maybe be wasn't great, but who is? The POTENTIAL Mark Sanchez showed back in '09 and '10 was something very important and something that was completely neglected so we could focus on, what else, the defense.

    I disregard the last two seasons because a) no quarterback could have succeeded with that load of crap around him and b) the Jets owed the 24 year old some f-cking support that they deliberately robbed him of. I contend that in the right circumstances back then, with a set of WR's to bond with and get in rhythm with, without Wayne Hunter getting him killed, he might have developed into something special.

    I don't think that is a criminal point of view for a Jets fan to take, nor do I think that Mark Sanchez can't improve if supported.

    SAR I
    SAR you should go be his agent, he's going to be looking for work soon. If he's as great as you say he is, I'm sure a ton of teams will be banging down his door.

    It's not every QB taken in the top 10 that can list a 17 TD/13 INT season as his peak career highlight. Mark should be proud!

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