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Thread: What NFL QBs had a subpar first 3 to 4 years and then succeeded?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    The starting qb should be Garrard. His worse year was better than Marks best. End Of Story.
    If he makes it through training camp and remembers how to play football.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    How did you come to that conclusion?? http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/pl...sf/ID/08310201
    Garrard became a starter in 2006. As a starter he never had a season below a 60% completion percentage. Mark's best year was 56.7%. Garrard's lowest passer rating was 80.5 and he also had seasons of 102.2 and 90.8. Marks best qb rating was 78.2. That's how.
    Last edited by GandWFan; 05-04-2013 at 01:20 PM. Reason: more info

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    If he makes it through training camp and remembers how to play football.
    He has been playing qb since he was a child. I am pretty sure he remembers how. The only concern is health, and he has had a full year to recooperate. He will be fine.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Garrard became a starter in 2006. As a starter he never had a season below a 60% completion percentage. Mark has never reached 60% in his career. That's how.
    If your just going on completion percentage then Chaddy is a HOF'er.. Should Eli not get credit for the first bowl win because his was under 60%??

  5. #145
    Phil Sims, plunkett, testeverde, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins and actually Eli Manning.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    He has been playing qb since he was a child. I am pretty sure he remembers how. The only concern is health, and he has had a full year to recooperate. He will be fine.
    He hasn't been in an regular season NFL game in two years. I'm not sure how fine he will be, but as long as Geno sits I'm ok with it.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    If your just going on completion percentage then Chaddy is a HOF'er.. Should Eli not get credit for the first bowl win because his was under 60%??
    Nope. Added passer rating to the equation. Is it your position that, based on their body of work, that Mark is a better qb?

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post
    During his first 2 years I think 95% of Jets fans saw Sanchez as the answer and thought the Jets finally had their longterm QB in place. We were expecting him to continue to progress, to really take the reigns and make the next step to being a Top 10 QB after 2 decent years and lots of playoff success.

    We didn't think he'd plateau and we certainly didn't expect him to regress and get worse. A lot of his regression is on him but there are definitely some contributing factors (multiple offensive systems, the degradation of the Jets offensive line - Wayne Hunter, the loss of major weapons in Edwards, Tomlinson, etc, the loss of the running game as a crutch, injuries in 2012 to Keller, Holmes).

    My question is a simple one - Is there any hope at all for Sanchez to solve his problems and earn the starting job? Take your emotions out of it, forget how much you like or hate the guy....Is Mark Sanchez's career still salvageable under a new OC in Mornhinweg and with a better supporting cast?

    Have we seen any other NFL QBs meander around, have fits and starts, some success and several failures.....and then break through to become a good starter under the right circumstances?
    1) Plunkett
    2) Garcia

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Digetydog View Post
    1) Plunkett
    2) Garcia
    How ironic.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Nope. Added passer rating to the equation. Is it your position that, based on their body of work, that Mark is a better qb?
    My point was that Garrards worst year wasn't better then Marks best.. I'm not defending Sanchez just trying to understand your train of thought.. If you base it on their body of work how was Garrrard in the playoffs?? In a win against the Steelers in 07 he was 9-21 1 td and 2 picks.. He was actually much better in the loss to the Pats going 22-33-278-2-1.. Stats alone doesn't tell the whole story..

  11. #151
    Playoff performace is not a big enough sample size for comparison. Four seasons is. Garrard is a much better, proven qb than Sanchez.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    My point was that Garrards worst year wasn't better then Marks best.. I'm not defending Sanchez just trying to understand your train of thought.. If you base it on their body of work how was Garrrard in the playoffs?? In a win against the Steelers in 07 he was 9-21 1 td and 2 picks.. He was actually much better in the loss to the Pats going 22-33-278-2-1.. Stats alone doesn't tell the whole story..
    Statistically, you are wrong and practically, you are wrong. Sorry.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Playoff performace is not a big enough sample size for comparison. Four seasons is. Garrard is a much better, proven qb than Sanchez.
    First 4 seasons tds Passing and rushing 80 for Mark 69 for Garrard.. My best case hope for this season is Garrard starts and gives way to a Geno Smith who lights it up.. But I'm trying to be fair to Sanchez and give him credit for what he did do.. BTW Garrard didn't really become a full time player until his 5 th season so one must keep that in mind as well as the fact he was only a 4th rd pick to start with.. And bottom line is you hate Sanchez I get it..

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    First 4 seasons tds Passing and rushing 80 for Mark 69 for Garrard.. My best case hope for this season is Garrard starts and gives way to a Geno Smith who lights it up.. But I'm trying to be fair to Sanchez and give him credit for what he did do.. BTW Garrard didn't really become a full time player until his 5 th season so one must keep that in mind as well as the fact he was only a 4th rd pick to start with.. And bottom line is you hate Sanchez I get it..
    Last 4 seasons when both were starters:
    TDs passing and rushing: Garrard: 82 , Sanchez: 80

    Fumbles: Garrard: 35, Sanchez: 43
    Interceptions: Garrard: 41, Sanchez: 69

    Total Turnovers: Garrard: 76, Sanchez: 112

    Touchdowns minus turnovers: Garrard: +6, Sanchez: -32

    Garrard is not great, but Sanchez is awful.

    I don't hate Sanchez. I hate Sanchez as the QB of the NYJ. He is killing my team.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Last 4 seasons when both were starters:
    TDs passing and rushing: Garrard: 82 , Sanchez: 80

    Fumbles: Garrard: 35, Sanchez: 43
    Interceptions: Garrard: 41, Sanchez: 69

    Total Turnovers: Garrard: 76, Sanchez: 112

    Touchdowns minus turnovers: Garrard: +6, Sanchez: -32

    Garrard is not great, but Sanchez is awful.

    I don't hate Sanchez. I hate Sanchez as the QB of the NYJ. He is killing my team.
    First 4 seasons as a starter not last 4.. If you want to say Garrard's last season was better then Sanchez we agree but that was his 5th season..

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Delusion? Nope. Fact. Just fact.

    Fact 1: Mark Sanchez got off to a fast start, fell apart, there's a chance that he might bounce back.
    A Lie.

    Mark Sanchez was so bad in his first two regular seasons, the O had to cut the playbook down signifigantly, he was on as short a leash as a Pro QB can be, and he was utterly carried by his D and Running Game.

    His entire "legend" is based on two postseasons where he wes merely average. He has no regular season legacy worth note.

    Fact 2: This team was built to win on Defense and Rushing and the failure of those two areas hurt this team far more than the quarterback did.
    A Lie.

    The team (like every team) requires all aspects to win. Mark Sanchez was drafted to improve, not remain as bad as he was day one. Mark was expected to develop and grow and become better, to shift some burden from D and RB to himself. Thats what people picked 6th in the draft at QB do, what Franchise QB's do.

    He never did, he's worse today that he was when he first hit the league, and he wasn't god enough then either and it shows.

    Anyone with two eyes could see that the offense coming out of Cortland
    What "anyone with two eyes" can see is that Mark Sanchez is:

    1. Soft.
    2. A poor uninspiring leader.
    3. Inaccurate
    4. Immobile
    5. Turnover prone
    6. Unable to come back when he plays poorly. I.e. Soft.
    7. The PRIMARY cause of this teams problems on Offense, the primary problem that creates our lack of scoring, and the primary problem with our supposed lack of "talent" on O.

    Mark Sanchez makes the talent around him worse. Not better.

    You can mumble on about "coming out of Cortland" and "built to win with D" all you like, it will never change that Mark Sanchez has not, did not, and probably never will develop into anything more than a 32nd rated QB in the league. A career journeyman backup.

    We live in the real world.

    In the real world, we can either fire the entire staff and 51 players.......or we can replace Mark Sanchez.

    Take your pick dreamland, or troll on. Maybee when Mark moves on, you should move the **** along with him. Like the Penningtologists and Tebowites you resemble.
    Last edited by Churchill; 05-04-2013 at 03:02 PM.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    First 4 seasons as a starter not last 4.. If you want to say Garrard's last season was better then Sanchez we agree but that was his 5th season..
    Per Wikipedia:
    In 2006, Del Rio named Garrard the starter in Week 8 and attributed the change to Leftwich's chronic injury problems...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrard

    So 2007 was his first full season as a starter. He started 2007 through 2010. Four years. The same as Sanchez.

    First 4, last 4, they are all the same.

  18. #158
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    Alex Smith.. Still think he is a system QB though.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by GandWFan View Post
    Per Wikipedia:
    In 2006, Del Rio named Garrard the starter in Week 8 and attributed the change to Leftwich's chronic injury problems...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrard

    So 2007 was his first full season as a starter. He started 2007 through 2010. Four years. The same as Sanchez.

    First 4, last 4, they are all the same.
    OK then and my point is when he was named the starter he already had 5 or 6 seasons to learn and was not a rookie out of college with 16 games under his belt.. We both want someone other then Sanchez to start I just won't crap on all the positive things he did and to be honest I enjoyed some of the games he played..

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    OK then and my point is when he was named the starter he already had 5 or 6 seasons to learn and was not a rookie out of college with 16 games under his belt.. We both want someone other then Sanchez to start I just won't crap on all the positive things he did and to be honest I enjoyed some of the games he played..
    I think that we are pretty close to agreeing on this. I enjoyed the first 2 years as well. There was hope, and he showed flashes. But after the Ravens game in 2011, he was done. They broke him.

    I am not crapping on what he has done. I am saying it is time to move on.

    You asked me my reasoning behind my stating Garrard's worst year was better than Mark's best. Statistically and practically that is true, as I have explained.

    I think that the best case scenario is that Geno sits behind Garrard for a year, or at least 10 - 12 games. I think Mark should be traded or released, so as not to splinter the locker room.

    My fear is that Mark will win the starting job because:
    a) Rex loves him, and
    b) Mark is a good "practice" player.

    When he wears the red jersey, Mark is good. In a live rush, he is toast. Hopefully Idzik will end the Sanchez "error" before Rex can extend this QB mess.

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