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Thread: Could you imagine THIS in 2014?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDL_JET View Post
    I get it, having top 5 picks often gets you good talent. This is how the Browns, Lions, Raiders, etc have been winning their Super Bowls the past few years.

    So what are you suggesting this team does to ensure that?
    OK well the Browns have stunk since Jim Brown. One of the worst franchises in pro-sports. So if you view the Jets on the same level I won't try to argue with you.

    The Raiders ownership just changed and are in transition. They were in the Super Bowl in 2002. Which isn't that bad.

    And the Lions, huh? Do you know who Matt Millen is? Similarly to the Browns they have been one of the worst franchises in sports. Two years ago, they were amazing. You view Stafford a bust? Calvin Johnson? Suh?

    Fair enough.

    For this one season, yes, the Jets should stink. They should stink TERRIBLY. Even if they do stink for YEARS JaDaveon Clowney, if by some miracle they got him, would make them entertaining no matter what.

    And stinking for years could be a real possibility either way with this loser owner who likes "Sharing" stadiums...........or pays 2.0 billion for something without a retractable roof. I could go on....I won't. No point.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpoppy7 View Post
    I think the team is good enough to avoid the #1 pick
    can you imagine if we looked in a crystal ball two years ago and we saw this sad statement

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Sg3 just because you trained under someone means that person will be as good. case in point- How many GM were hired from successful teams (where they got their training from) and never had any where close to same success as previous team.

    Until otherwise proven I will say there is a good chance Jets special teams will take a giant step back in 2013.

    I have total faith that the new coach will have his men educated, and trained.


    New York Jets assistant coach Ben Kotwica, a decorated veteran, reflects on Iraq experience

    Martin Griff/The Times of TrentonBen Kotwica spent roughly a year in Iraq and has also served in Bosnia and Korea.
    The worst feeling was when the radio started "squawking," recalled Ben Kotwica. That's when he knew one of his Army brethren was in trouble. It was his version of the movie "Blackhawk Down."

    Kotwica, who piloted an Apache attack helicopter in Iraq, would spring into action during those times. He was part of the U.S. Army's deployment there in March 2004 for Operation Iraqi Freedom II.

    "To fly over the city of Baghdad is like flying over Manhattan, you can't tell good from bad," said Kotwica, a former football player at West Point who is in his third season as a quality control special teams/defense coach for the Jets. "It wasn't a linear battle.

    "It's nothing like when the radio starts squawking ... a situation where you're going to save your brothers on the ground. I don't think it was like I'm going to do this to somebody else, it's more I'm going to help my brothers."

    Kotwica, 34, spent roughly a year in Iraq. He said he doesn't know how many people he killed during the 1,000 hours of combat flight time he logged, but he quickly admits, "I didn't take satisfaction in that (killing).

    "When I pulled the trigger on occasion, I don't think I consciously said, 'Somebody over there is going to lose their life today.' It was more of, 'Hey, they did something to us and now we've got to do something to them.'"

    Last week, Kotwica, a decorated officer who spent seven years in the Army, reflected on his career at the Jets' Florham Park complex as Memorial Day approached. His awards included the Army Achievement Medal, the Army Commendation Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal and the Bronze Star. He has served in Bosnia, Korea and Iraq.

    While in Iraq, Kotwica's missions included convoy security operations, VIP escorts for American dignitaries such as then-President Bush and search-and-destroy missions to suppress insurgent activities.

    Kotwica said he saw it all, acts of heroism, bravery, cowardice and fear. He saw it in the fresh recruits and the grizzled veterans alike. Not even one of the finest military institutions in the world -- West Point -- can prepare one for war, he says.

    Through last year, roughly a dozen Apache helicopters were shot down by enemy fire and another dozen or so crashed due to other reasons.

    Fortunately, Kotwica, who has a wife and two daughters, said he doesn't suffer from post-war stress, waking up in the dark of night reaching for his gun.

    "But I do wake up thinking about that Seattle game," he quipped, referring to the Jets' critical 13-3 loss in Week 16 to the Seahawks last season.

    Kotwica, who said he grew up on the south side of Chicago "wired" to be a soldier, decided to become a fighter pilot during his junior year at West Point because it seemed "cool."

    So did football. At West Point, Kotwica played linebacker under current Jets linebackers coach Bob Sutton and was a co-captain of the 1996 team that posted a school-record 10-2 mark. He always wanted to coach.

    Even so, Kotwica says it's kind of strange to now be living his dream as an NFL coach, enjoying the same feeling of security he once himself helped provide for millions of Americans while many of his buddies are still in harm's way. Former Jets coach Eric Mangini hired him in 2006 after he spent two seasons as a high school coach.

    "I don't think you're ever removed completely from it," he said. "I didn't leave the Army because I didn't like it. I left because I really wanted to do this."

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    OK well the Browns have stunk since Jim Brown. One of the worst franchises in pro-sports. So if you view the Jets on the same level I won't try to argue with you.

    The Raiders ownership just changed and are in transition. They were in the Super Bowl in 2002. Which isn't that bad.

    And the Lions, huh? Do you know who Matt Millen is? Similarly to the Browns they have been one of the worst franchises in sports. Two years ago, they were amazing. You view Stafford a bust? Calvin Johnson? Suh?

    Fair enough.

    For this one season, yes, the Jets should stink. They should stink TERRIBLY. Even if they do stink for YEARS JaDaveon Clowney, if by some miracle they got him, would make them entertaining no matter what.

    And stinking for years could be a real possibility either way with this loser owner who likes "Sharing" stadiums...........or pays 2.0 billion for something without a retractable roof. I could go on....I won't. No point.
    No I don't view them as busts, but how many Superbowls and playoff wins has that gotten them? I've lost count.

    And no, if they got Clowney and still sucked for years that would not make them entertaining.

    Point is, a team doesn't suck on purpose to ensure a top pick. Sorry to disappoint. Need a plan B.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDL_JET View Post
    No I don't view them as busts, but how many Superbowls and playoff wins has that gotten them? I've lost count.

    And no, if they got Clowney and still sucked for years that would not make them entertaining.

    Point is, a team doesn't suck on purpose to ensure a top pick. Sorry to disappoint. Need a plan B.
    Oh yeah?

    Bill Polian says otherwise. His actions, not his words. So does Ernie Accorsi.

    Colts won less than 10 years ago. Giants have won 2 recently.

    Colts roster around Manning was absolutely putrid. It was done on purpose. It was convenient that it was the year Luck was coming out????? Luck of the draw? Simple chance?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Oh yeah?

    Bill Polian says otherwise. His actions, not his words. So does Ernie Accorsi.

    Colts won less than 10 years ago. Giants have won 2 recently.

    Colts roster around Manning was absolutely putrid. It was done on purpose. It was convenient that it was the year Luck was coming out????? Luck of the draw? Simple chance?
    Giants traded up. They didn't have the #1 pick to get Eli Manning. Same with the Redskins.

    Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman are the only QBs in the last 25 years to win the SB with the team that drafted them at #1. In fact, they are the only QBs drafted in the top 5 to win a SB with the team that drafted them.

    Look at the last 10 SB winners

    Flacco (Drafted 18th)
    Eli Manning (Drafted 1st and traded)
    Aaron Rodgers (Drafted 21st)
    Drew Brees (Drafted 32nd, won with 2nd team)
    Ben Roethlsiberger (Drafted 11th)
    Peyton Manning (Drafted 1st)
    Tom Brady (Drafted 6th Round)
    Brad Johnson (Drafted 9th Round, won with 3rd team)


    My point is not that drafting a QB @ #1 is bad, obviously the best QBs are going to be drafted 1st. And Stafford, Luck, Ryan are all great QBs, but the reality is, as important as a great QB is (and it is the most important piece), the idea that drafting in the top 3 guarantees you a "franchise reboot" is simply not true. Yes, it happened for the Colts, but the reality is, teams that suck, continue to suck. Drafting 1st may seem like a great thing because of the QB and DE next season, but it probably won't make the Jets more likely to win a Super Bowl in 5 seasons.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    I would think training under someone widely regarded as the most well prepared, most innovative STs coach would increase the likelihood of success.

    Except to you, who has predicted doom and gloom in every aspect of the Jets, being consistently wrong. Each and every time.

    But to you just signing someone who not only isn't Westhoff but didn't have the advantage of working with him, watching and breaking down film with him, learning from him, as the Raiders do every other year when they fire all the incompetent coaches is better.

    And of course if Westhoff was still here you would tell us how he has slipped and isn't the same coach as in the past.
    What happens if the special teams doesn't improve . Again you can't claim the special team will be better as this new special teams coach hasn't proven anything yet. Until he does , than that is a big question mark. ( fact)

    Just like last year when you got rid of Brian Shottenheimer. How great the Jets offense was going to be now that you had a real OC in Tony Sparano. ( didn't work out that way as the OC was never the problem).

    BTw isn't this the third offensive coordinator in three years. Do you think the new coach in 2014 won't be bringing in his OC.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 05-06-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    What happens if the special teams doesn't improve . Again you can't claim the special team will be better as this new special teams coach hasn't proven anything yet. Until he does , than that is a big question mark. ( fact)

    Just like last year when you got rid of Brian Shottenheimer. How great the Jets offense was going to be now that you had a real OC in Tony Sparano. ( didn't work out that way as the OC was never the problem).

    BTw isn't this the third offensive coordinator in three years. Do you think the new coach in 2014 won't be bringing in his OC.
    Just because Sporano was worse doesn't mean Shotty didn't suck. It's that kind of logic that leads you to be humiliated year after year.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chupa View Post
    There is no way in hell we have the #2 pick next year.
    agreed! we'll be midway in the pack around 12-20

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    What happens if the special teams doesn't improve . Again you can't claim the special team will be better as this new special teams coach hasn't proven anything yet. Until he does , than that is a big question mark. ( fact)

    Just like last year when you got rid of Brian Shottenheimer. How great the Jets offense was going to be now that you had a real OC in Tony Sparano. ( didn't work out that way as the OC was never the problem).

    BTw isn't this the third offensive coordinator in three years. Do you think the new coach in 2014 won't be bringing in his OC.
    Special teams will go down, we had the best special teams coach in the NFL for many years, he was a beast and was able to get a lot out of guys.

    Sparano & Shotty sucked, both... That's the reason we did not improve, they both were awful.

    I think they should bring in HC, and keep Rex as DC.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMarsico9 View Post
    Clowney lined up next to Wilk or behind him would be absolutely bonkers. Both Coples and Wilkerson are large enough to play DT in 4 man fronts and Clowney can play standing up.

    BTW, Raiders, the second most important position behind QB is DE/OLB/Pass Rush.

    Dion Jordan and Ziggy Anseh have barely scratched the surface of what they could be (which is about 2/3rds of what Clowney already is) and both were picked in the top 5.

    There is no way shape or form that a guy who COULD BE a franchise QB will get taken ahead of Clowney.

    And while Manziel could be taken high, I don't think he's in the same category of Boyd or Bridgewater, guys with huge arms, good size, and/or good mobility.

    Manziel has a lot to prove. Don't get me wrong, he's a great college player but Tim Tebow has a few words regarding that.
    A argument could be made if LT is the second most important position behind QB . ( this draft seemed to say that) some will say pass rusher and I don't think you can say that is crazy. While both of those positions are prime positions they still are way behind the premier position- QB.

    IF a Qb in next year draft by time the draft rolls around( really could care less what people say about Qb prospect now) is considered a franchise Qb you have to take that Qb over Clowney every time.
    How many premier pass rushers haven't won anything. How Many rings does Demarcus Ware have. Jared Allen ? Etc.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    What happens if the special teams doesn't improve . Again you can't claim the special team will be better as this new special teams coach hasn't proven anything yet. Until he does , than that is a big question mark. ( fact)

    Just like last year when you got rid of Brian Shottenheimer. How great the Jets offense was going to be now that you had a real OC in Tony Sparano. ( didn't work out that way as the OC was never the problem).

    BTw isn't this the third offensive coordinator in three years. Do you think the new coach in 2014 won't be bringing in his OC.
    I never said they would be better. Read. I said you can't say they will be worse just because you don't know what they will be. I do think that someone who has studied under Westy has a better chance of being good though.
    Getting rid of Shotty wasn't a problem or wrong. Sporano was wrong.

    There won't be a new HC in 2014.

    You come here every time telling all how great every Raider move has been, how much they've improved and how much better they are than the jets. And still, as bad as the past two years have been, the Raiders are nowhere near as good as the jets.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    Look at the last 10 SB winners

    Flacco (Drafted 18th)
    Eli Manning (Drafted 1st and traded)
    Aaron Rodgers (Drafted 21st)
    Drew Brees (Drafted 32nd, won with 2nd team)
    Ben Roethlsiberger (Drafted 11th)
    Peyton Manning (Drafted 1st)
    Tom Brady (Drafted 6th Round)
    Brad Johnson (Drafted 9th Round, won with 3rd team)

    The Manning brothers are the only QB's to win a superbowl in the last 10 years that were drafted in the top 10....

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtstar View Post
    ANOTHER defensive end in the first round???


    fire Idzik!!!

    I assume you are joking. If Clowney is on the board for our pick, and we pass on him, it will be Warren Sapp 1995 all over again. You do not pass on guys like this, no matter who you already have on your team. Besides, with Coples moving to OLB, we have a gaping hole at DE anyway.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    No IF There is a franchise Qb there you have to take him because that franchise Qb trumps a stud DE. Qb is just a more important position that can determine success or failure of a franchise .( see Tom Brady)

    A GM passes On a franchise Qb for J Clowney he probably getting fired . Only way if that franchise Qb bombs like Jamarcus Russell , does he come out looking good.

    If you are talking Peyton Manning or someone on that level, then yes. Do you really think Teddy Bridgewater or Johnny Manziel are anywhere close to that level? To me, those two are not sure things at all. Clowney is.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmans A Scientist View Post
    This is a stretch, but the question is, do you draft Lawrence Taylor/Reggie White or do you draft Matt Ryan/Ben Roethlisberger.

    Seems silly, but it's a lot closer than you think. The value of drafting a "good - very good" QB with a 10% chance of being a HOFer is so much higher than drafting a "Great to exceptional" DE with a 50% (obviously a wild guess) chance of being a HOFer.
    Defensive ends, no matter how great, don't win you a Superbowl.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_0515 View Post
    Defensive ends, no matter how great, don't win you a Superbowl.

    You are correct. Teams win SB's, and pass rushers are generally a more important part of a winning team than most other positions. The Giants do not win 1, much less 2, SBs this decade without over emphasizing the pass rush.

  18. #78
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    What has Matt Ryan won? Seriously.

    He puts up good, not great stats in the regular season. He's not Rodgers or Brees.

    As for the rest of it:

    Eli was the best player in the draft, not just the best QB. I can't believe people are debating Clowney vs. anybody unless he gets hurt.

  19. #79
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    I don't care if you have 2 DE's with multiple probowls and are in desperate need of a QB. NO TEAM WILL PASS ON CLOWNEY WITH THE FIRST OVERALL PICK!

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toooon View Post
    I assume you are joking. If Clowney is on the board for our pick, and we pass on him, it will be Warren Sapp 1995 all over again. You do not pass on guys like this, no matter who you already have on your team. Besides, with Coples moving to OLB, we have a gaping hole at DE anyway.
    thank you for granting me the benefit of the doubt.


    and yes, i was joking.

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