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Thread: Are We Better off?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    This regime has made nothing but mistakes for the past two years. Every decision, wrong. It is quite normal to be unhappy and question every move we are making.

    What is abnormal is waving pom-pom's and putting on the blinders. The Jets have played you Blind Homers like a fool for two years going on three. You'd think you'd learn.

    SAR I
    2 years? Idzik has been on the job for a few months and you labeled him a failure.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIJetsFan View Post
    SAR I,
    IMHO:
    a) We should not have kept Revis due to the % of cap he demanded for his services. (see below re cap space)
    b) Rex will use Richardson inside and shade Coples just outside the tackle as a pass rusher so I donít agree with your redundancy angle. I prefer this to any of the flawed OLBís out this year.
    c) QB is a definite need and I donít comprehend how the #1 QB of his class harms our team. With luck MS wakes up under Mornhinweg and Geno becomes a solid backup, or Garrard plays and Geno is the heir apparent. Where is the harm? Nothing in the 2014 draft is promised.

    I think BPA works fine and will work even better once we get beyond the cap space bind Tanny left us. In 2014 the BPA plan will work much better because weíll have the cap room to sign above average FAís for positions of need. Until then Idzig did the best he could with the hand he was dealt. Try taking a bit of a longer view; also I think the Jets will field a more competitive team in 2013 than you do.

    From what I see in some of your other posts you donít like Idzig or Rex. You like MS and you like Cro. Iíll presume you like Mangold and DíBrick. Iím just curious, are there any other players on the team that you like?
    Revis had to go. We didn't get enough for him.

    There were no blue-chip quarterbacks in this draft. So saying "Smith was the best QB of his class" is accurate but nowhere near what a true prospect would bring. We're back at Kellen Clemens now. A "maybe" guy that we aren't in love with but was worth the diceroll in the second round.

    The "harm" in these moves is that we didn't upgrade the areas of need at all. WR2 and TE1 are more important than DE4 and QB5. BPA should have been BPAIAON (In Areas Of Need).

    Jets players I like. Cromartie. Mangold. I think that's it.

    SAR I

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIJetsFan View Post
    I had SAR 1 on ignore for quite a while because his views were so opposite mine. Recently I began reading posts that quoted him and I realized that at the very least he does present a reasonable well thought out alternate point of view. I've noted that when presented with a specific FACT that disproves a specific idea of his that he actually concedes it. All of the above makes him a better poster than I initially thought, so I've taken him off ignore.

    Debating someone with a polar opposite view who knows how to debate should prove to be stimulating.
    Two things that strike me as very funny:

    1. This is a discussion forum whose purpose is to encourage passionate debate.

    2. The redundancy here is coming from the Blind Homers who post the same thing over and over again.

    Repetitive posting, both pro and con, is what happens in the offseason when there is no new ground broken. I've been on discussion forums since 1994, that's how it works.

    Those who ignore me I encourage to do so. They don't want to hear anything negative and they don't know how to present a good argument. They add nothing of value, good riddance. I only wish the moderators would make all the harassing posts stop because what those 3 posters do is more destructive than what they falsely claim I'm doing, they are making JI awful and it needs to stop.

    SAR I

  4. #124
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    I couldn't agree with you more SAR. Keep up the good fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    Two things that strike me as very funny:

    1. This is a discussion forum whose purpose is to encourage passionate debate.

    2. The redundancy here is coming from the Blind Homers who post the same thing over and over again.

    Repetitive posting, both pro and con, is what happens in the offseason when there is no new ground broken. I've been on discussion forums since 1994, that's how it works.

    Those who ignore me I encourage to do so. They don't want to hear anything negative and they don't know how to present a good argument. They add nothing of value, good riddance. I only wish the moderators would make all the harassing posts stop because what those 3 posters do is more destructive than what they falsely claim I'm doing, they are making JI awful and it needs to stop.

    SAR I

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevisCroWilson View Post
    2 years? Idzik has been on the job for a few months and you labeled him a failure.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Since the hiring of Idzik is one of the Jets biggest fails then every move he makes comes under question.

    We lost 13 starters.
    We signed questionable JAG's.
    We allowed a lame duck HC to being in another OC for a single year.
    We misplayed the Revis opportunity, got a bad deal.
    We misplayed the Tebow spot, held him through the draft for nothing.
    We couldn't trade down to get more picks so we took a CB.
    We couldn't trade up to get the WR so we took a DE.
    We took a sketchy QB instead of the playmaking TE.
    We have just created another QB circus when the last one was a disaster.
    We are losing scouts who just worked the draft and are quitting.

    It's raining today, sunshine.

    SAR I

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by sash1 View Post
    why is Tommy Bohanon starting over Lex Hilliard?
    Because Lex Hilliard may not even be on team through training camp....

  7. #127
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    the lame schtick continues, I can only assume

    because, Thank God, the IGNORE continues

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    They don't want to hear anything negative
    Not true at all. Some of us simply prefer a more objective, less spamming/trolling/repetative/universally negative yet consistently ill informed account of our definiencies.

    We most certainly have weaknesses SAR, and the vast majority of fans here see that quite clearly.

    With that said, the line quoted above quite well describes your own position regarding Mark Sanchez, whom you've absolved regularly and repeatedly of all responsabillity for his own worst-in-NFL performence the past 4 years.

    Seems hypocritical to judge others for your own sins.

    they don't know how to present a good argument.
    Says the man who cannot name a single player we could/should have aquired, admits to having no idea regarding any college players or their potentials, says he "is no GM", and is both unable and unwilling to specify what alternatives would have been the better choice in any decision......but consistently post thousands of content-similar posts denouncing every choice and decision by the team as "wrong", rooting against the Jets winning during the season, and reveling in ripping off his fellow fans by selling his tcikets to games.

    Simply decrying everything other Mark Sanchez is not forming a good argument. Offering up no reasonable alteratives is not forming a good argument. Rooting for losses is not forming a good argument. Taking joy in ripping off your fellow fan is not forming a good argument.

    Lets be clear, you live to engender exactly the reaction you get here at J.I. It couldn't be more obvious.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    the lame schtick continues, I can only assume

    because, Thank God, the IGNORE continues


    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    +1


    boasting about one's ignorance of college football yet waving pompoms for the Jets to draft Matt Leinart? Does Not Compute
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    there is a better solution to the unreadable shtick

    join the ignore majority here at JI
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    the only problem with that idea is that NO MATTER HOW many times you absolutely prove that he is wrong about any point.... the same old shtick keeps getting posted again and again

    Like debating a brick wall
    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    In 2011 WITH LT THE MAGIC SAFETY VALVE on the field for every game SAR's boy Mark Buttfumble was responsible for 26 turnovers same as in 2012.

    Time to come up with a new line of shtick to defend the indefensibly awful Suckchez

    Oh, you like the shtick. You are drawn to SAR like Luke was to Vader.
    "Dont let you anger get in the way Skywalker"


  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    We lost 13 starters.
    Of whom only Revis and Landry were quality players in 2013.

    We signed questionable JAG's.
    How would you know, you're not a GM, and you cannot name talent beyond the Jets or in college per your own admission.

    What we do know is most of our lost starters were JAG's as well, weak links on a bad team, again, per your own description of them.

    If you were consistent, you'd be for the loss of 13 starters from such a bad team.

    We allowed a lame duck HC to being in another OC for a single year.
    A decision we'll see the results of soon enough, and will (if a failure0 result in Rex's termination.

    We misplayed the Revis opportunity, got a bad deal.
    What better deal was available? Since again you say you're not a GM and have no idea what players, picks or offers were available, how exactly can you decree it was a "bad deal" if it was the best deal available?

    Is your argument that we should have then retained Revis for 2013 and lost him for nothing in 2014?

    We misplayed the Tebow spot, held him through the draft for nothing.
    So? What harm did that do? He's gone now with no harm done.

    We couldn't trade down to get more picks so we took a CB.
    The best CB in the draft, to replace the loss of Revis and the poor selection that is Wilson.

    We couldn't trade up to get the WR so we took a DE.
    To provide replacements for Devito/Pouha, and hopefully provide a spark of pass rush we've long been missing.

    You say Mark Sanchez can only win with a great running game and dominant defense, then you decry any move that works dowards building a great running game or dominant defense.

    We took a sketchy QB instead of the playmaking TE.
    You say you have no idea regarding college players, so how do you judge Smith to be a "sketchy QB" when he was widely considered the ebst, more PRo-ready QB in the draft, and we got him inthe 2nd round, an unquestionable value-selection?

    How do you know whatever TE you're not naming is a "playmaker" at the NFL level? Who ARE you discussing for TE available in the 2nd, since you regularly choose not to name players?

    We have just created another QB circus when the last one was a disaster.
    Mark Sanchez is in the last year of his contract with the Jets. Our depth is one aged Veteran in Gerrard and one borderline #3 in McElroy.

    Given that, how can you possibly rationalize drafting the best QB in the draft in the 2nd as "creating a QB circus" given that as of today, we have no QB or developmental QB for 2014 or beyond?

    Is it your position that mark Sanchez should have been resigned/extended instead? Because no professional team is going to go into 2013 with no prospect or possible starter in place for 2014.

    We are losing scouts who just worked the draft and are quitting.
    And what do you know about these specific scouts?

    Again, how can you simply decree something bad withotu any knowledge or facts regarding the people in question or their work?
    Last edited by Churchill; 05-08-2013 at 10:41 AM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Not true at all. Some of us simply prefer a more objective, less spamming/trolling/repetative/universally negative yet consistently ill informed account of our definiencies.

    We most certainly have weaknesses SAR, and the vast majority of fans here see that quite clearly.

    With that said, the line quoted above quite well describes your own position regarding Mark Sanchez, whom you've absolved regularly and repeatedly of all responsabillity for his own worst-in-NFL performence the past 4 years.

    Seems hypocritical to judge others for your own sins.



    Says the man who cannot name a single player we could/should have aquired, admits to having no idea regarding any college players or their potentials, says he "is no GM", and is both unable and unwilling to specify what alternatives would have been the better choice in any decision......but consistently post thousands of content-similar posts denouncing every choice and decision by the team as "wrong", rooting against the Jets winning during the season, and reveling in ripping off his fellow fans by selling his tcikets to games.

    Simply decrying everything other Mark Sanchez is not forming a good argument. Offering up no reasonable alteratives is not forming a good argument. Rooting for losses is not forming a good argument. Taking joy in ripping off your fellow fan is not forming a good argument.

    Lets be clear, you live to engender exactly the reaction you get here at J.I. It couldn't be more obvious.
    This is by far the most intelligent, sensible, and objective post I have read on Ji in a while.. It's funny how some buy into a troll's bs. Or when the troll complains about getting called out on it.. Post more often man..

  12. #132
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    I agree with SAR solely for the fact that the team was AWFUL last year.

    Have moves been made? YES

    Have players been added? YES

    Were Players Drafted? YES

    I cant speak for SAR, but i often agree with his posts. Maybe this is just a good example of peoples different outlook/opinion on how a SB team should be built.

    Dont see any problem with fans hoping for and analyzing how the team will be better, but im the kind of fan whom needs to see it with my own eyes first before i start gushing positivity.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    I agree with SAR solely for the fact that the team was AWFUL last year.

    Have moves been made? YES

    Have players been added? YES

    Were Players Drafted? YES

    I cant speak for SAR, but i often agree with his posts. Maybe this is just a good example of peoples different outlook/opinion on how a SB team should be built.

    Dont see any problem with fans hoping for and analyzing how the team will be better, but im the kind of fan whom needs to see it with my own eyes first before i start gushing positivity.
    strange about your obvious affection and focus on SAR. You are drawn to SAR like Luke was to Vader, it seems



  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg3 View Post
    strange about your obvious affection and focus on SAR. You are drawn to SAR like Luke was to Vader, it seems


    LOL.

    I am drawn to him, but i dont think its a homo thing. I always pull for the underdogs;ie love the Jets.

    Is SAR handsome? Feelings are confused now after J-Collins.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets88NY View Post
    Just a list of changes. On the left are the new players to the right old.
    I honestly dont see how we dont at least grab 7 wins with this schedule and the new additions...

    QB : Geno Smith --- Mark Sanchez
    RB : Chris Ivory --- Bilal Powell
    FB : Tommy Bohanon --- John Griffin
    G : Willie Colon --- Dennis Landolt
    G : Brian Winters --- Caleb Schlauderaff
    T : Austin Howard --- Vladimir Ducasse
    TE : Jeff Cumberland --- Konrad Reuland
    DE : Sheldon Richardsn --- Quinton Coples
    NT : Antonio Garay --- Sione Pouha
    OLB : Quinton Coples --- Garrett McIntyre
    OLB : Calvin Pace --- Ricky Sapp
    CB : Dee Milliner --- Darrelle Revis
    S : Dawan Landry --- Antonio Allen
    S : Josh Bush --- Josh Bush
    Other teams have gotten experience and better as well, that's how.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
    Not true at all. Some of us simply prefer a more objective, less spamming/trolling/repetative/universally negative yet consistently ill informed account of our definiencies.

    We most certainly have weaknesses SAR, and the vast majority of fans here see that quite clearly.

    With that said, the line quoted above quite well describes your own position regarding Mark Sanchez, whom you've absolved regularly and repeatedly of all responsabillity for his own worst-in-NFL performence the past 4 years.

    Seems hypocritical to judge others for your own sins.

    Says the man who cannot name a single player we could/should have aquired, admits to having no idea regarding any college players or their potentials, says he "is no GM", and is both unable and unwilling to specify what alternatives would have been the better choice in any decision......but consistently post thousands of content-similar posts denouncing every choice and decision by the team as "wrong", rooting against the Jets winning during the season, and reveling in ripping off his fellow fans by selling his tcikets to games.

    Simply decrying everything other Mark Sanchez is not forming a good argument. Offering up no reasonable alteratives is not forming a good argument. Rooting for losses is not forming a good argument. Taking joy in ripping off your fellow fan is not forming a good argument.

    Lets be clear, you live to engender exactly the reaction you get here at J.I. It couldn't be more obvious.
    1. I am referring to 3-4 posters from last years horrible Blind Homer Cult who play the "rah-rah" act and haven't decided to drop their schtick even after their ludicrous 12-4 predictions came crashing to the ground.

    2. I do not support Mark Sanchez. I merely believe that there is a small chance he could be good and we need to see what we've got. That's actually a very positive stance for a Jets fan to take. That's a bit pom-pom right there. But I get criticized for that too. They can't make up their minds.

    3. Your posts are filled with the same lack of understanding, feeling of denial, and blind homerism as the rest. You just have a better vocabulary. Doesn't make you right.

    4. About 90% of NFL fans don't know anything about college football. Our instincts on our NFL teams perhaps are better because we give them all of our focus. I've done just fine in predicting the quality of the roster, the quality of our HC, and our annual record for the past 15 years, thank you.

    5. We've seen your type before. Newbs do this all the time. You will find a popular poster. You will engage in personal attacks. You will build some credibility with the feeble-minded. You will get bored and move on. Cut to the chase.

    SAR I

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    1. I am referring to 3-4 posters from last years horrible Blind Homer Cult who play the "rah-rah" act and haven't decided to drop their schtick even after their ludicrous 12-4 predictions came crashing to the ground.

    2. I do not support Mark Sanchez. I merely believe that there is a small chance he could be good and we need to see what we've got. That's actually a very positive stance for a Jets fan to take. That's a bit pom-pom right there. But I get criticized for that too. They can't make up their minds.

    3. Your posts are filled with the same lack of understanding, feeling of denial, and blind homerism as the rest. You just have a better vocabulary. Doesn't make you right.

    4. About 90% of NFL fans don't know anything about college football. Our instincts on our NFL teams perhaps are better because we give them all of our focus. I've done just fine in predicting the quality of the roster, the quality of our HC, and our annual record for the past 15 years, thank you.

    5. We've seen your type before. Newbs do this all the time. You will find a popular poster. You will engage in personal attacks. You will build some credibility with the feeble-minded. You will get bored and move on. Cut to the chase.

    SAR I
    First and foremost, you're by no means a popular poster...you bludgeon the board with the same nonsense day in and day out without suggesting any viable solutions. You call for logical debate, and lack of personal attacks...well it seems like that's exactly what Winston Churchill has done. He's asked to engage in conversation about what to do to fix the team rather than spew bull**** and free association of Rex Ryan's shortcomings. I'm not quite sure how him saying that you're wrong makes him a homer...in fact it seems to me that this debate was pretty clearly dominated by the british bulldog. Repining incessantly with no constructive criticism doesn't make you a quality poster, it makes you a joke.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    1. I am referring to 3-4 posters from last years horrible Blind Homer Cult who play the "rah-rah" act and haven't decided to drop their schtick even after their ludicrous 12-4 predictions came crashing to the ground.

    2. I do not support Mark Sanchez. I merely believe that there is a small chance he could be good and we need to see what we've got. That's actually a very positive stance for a Jets fan to take. That's a bit pom-pom right there. But I get criticized for that too. They can't make up their minds.

    3. Your posts are filled with the same lack of understanding, feeling of denial, and blind homerism as the rest. You just have a better vocabulary. Doesn't make you right.

    4. About 90% of NFL fans don't know anything about college football. Our instincts on our NFL teams perhaps are better because we give them all of our focus. I've done just fine in predicting the quality of the roster, the quality of our HC, and our annual record for the past 15 years, thank you.

    5. We've seen your type before. Newbs do this all the time. You will find a popular poster. You will engage in personal attacks. You will build some credibility with the feeble-minded. You will get bored and move on. Cut to the chase.

    SAR I
    SAR I,
    1. No comment
    2. Agree completely
    3. True or false I donít know but it scores well in debate terms
    4. I think you are way too down on Rex. He is a savant on defense. He knows what he doesnít know and leaves the offense to the OC. Tanny is accountable for Shotty, Sanchez, and Sparano, not Rex. Mornhinweg is Rexís guy. The jury is out on him and therefore IMHO out on Rex. If this OC clicks weíll be a perennial playoff team under Rex, again IMHO
    5. Zing! Another score in terms of debate point. True or false, I donít know.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by SAR I View Post
    2. I do not support Mark Sanchez. I merely believe that there is a small chance he could be good and we need to see what we've got. That's actually a very positive stance for a Jets fan to take. That's a bit pom-pom right there. But I get criticized for that too. They can't make up their minds.
    If your position is this, then it appears you're in lockstep with the GM and Head Coach you claim to disagree with. They are giving Mark Sanchez every opportunity to win the job in 2013, and prove his detractors wrong via his own quality of play.

    The idea that Sanchez will only fail because of the talent around him, and that he will not, in fact, be judged on his own play, is simply not based in informed facts. It implies that if Sanchez plays great, but his supporting cast fails, he will not be fairly judged on his own play. Such a viewpoint exposes denial that Mark Sanchez has, to this point, generally been a regular season dissapointment in his own personally responsible quality of play, specificly in his pass accuracy, mobillity, ball handling and leadership.

    3. Your posts are filled with the same lack of understanding, feeling of denial, and blind homerism as the rest. You just have a better vocabulary. Doesn't make you right.
    What denial is that?

    Rex Ryan is unquestionable a Head Coach on the hot-seat. He probably should have been fired, and would have been by many teams. He probably WILL be fired at years end if he fails in any material way. With that said, keeping a sitting head coach for one year under a new GM is not that uncommon in sports before making wholesale changes. What is being denied?

    We are weak on-paper at the Wide receiver position. This is true, but it's equally true that we have one player we're financially tied to (Holmes), a 2nd year player they're simply not going to dump in year 2 (Hill) and a quality underutilized slot receiver (Kerley). Tight End is a clear weakness today, with only unknowns in place at current.

    And you continue to ignore that the WCO will utilize our RB's more, and clearly the team (GM) thinks adding Ivory and Goodson IS an upgrade. Your pronouncements of these young players as failures-in-advance is clearly premature. The most certainly COULD fail. But declaring them as failures now is simply invalid.

    We have a number of other weaknesses. Linebacker (where the team appears today to favor unproven youth), Safety (clearly a weak spot).

    Even special teams could suffer, given the loss of certain performers and the staff change.

    With that said, it's May. Free Agency and Camp often has a lot of activity, including players cut loose who can still perform. Declaring the entire off season a bust is simply preemptive negativity.

    4. About 90% of NFL fans don't know anything about college football. Our instincts on our NFL teams perhaps are better because we give them all of our focus. I've done just fine in predicting the quality of the roster, the quality of our HC, and our annual record for the past 15 years, thank you.
    Again, keeping it simple:

    1. You decry almost every single aspect of the team, it's management, it's front office, it's staff and it's players as bad, often in advance.

    2. When questioned specifically, you are not able to provide even a single specific instance of an real-world alternative option.

    Respectfully, if you cannot posit an alternative that would be acceptable to you as a "good decision", specifically, you are not someone who should be listened to regarding the "poor" choices that were actually made.

    The team may (or may not) be bad in its record, but your arguments lack any form of educated informed specific criticism that would lead one to believe your talent and managerial evaluation has merit.

    It's very easy to say "everything sucks, boo" when your team win 6 games, it's far harder to explain why it sucks, where it could/should be specifically improved and how, or to view acquisitions/decisions with a more critical and nuanced mind that the "universal everything sucks and will always suck" viewpoint you've laid out to this point.

    5. We've seen your type before. Newbs do this all the time. You will find a popular poster. You will engage in personal attacks. You will build some credibility with the feeble-minded. You will get bored and move on. Cut to the chase.
    Irrelevant, deflecting fluff of no import.
    Last edited by Churchill; 05-08-2013 at 11:49 AM.

  20. #140
    what's the difference b/t SAR and patsfantx anyway, besides favorite team?

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